Kenichi Shirahama vs Batman

[AnimeFanboy2916]

In a hand to hand fight, no weapons, who wins? Morals off.


He can do everything possible with prep time!

 

[Aimenaltair]

Ken stomps due to AP advantage, Striking and Durability advantage.

 

[Reppuzan]

Batman might have a tactical edge with his weaponry and mastery of over a hundred martial arts styles, but Kenichi's no slouch in the physical department. In fact, if we use epilogue Kenichi (if we're assuming both fighters are at their prime) then Kenichi should be on par with the Hypersonic Elder.

Outside of that, Kenichi still has a massive edge in physical stats. One clean hit to the vitals will pulverize Batsy's insides. God forbid he lands a Korui Nuki, else Bruce has a hole in his torso.

Bruce also has the edge in tactics and scare factor, but I think Kenichi's determination (which is just as iron-clad if not more so that Batman's) will give him the win. However, this will only hold true if Kenichi is fighting for a good reason. If it's just a random brawl it's highly unlikely that he'll fight to his full potential.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

This is actually good.

Kenichi has MASSIVE strength and durability advantages, but on the other hand, Batman has much better skills, tactics and smarts to work out with. But Kenichi is no slouch in skill either, and I think that he can somewhat keep up with Batman.

Gotta give it to Kenichi, with mid-to-high diff. But it could go either way depending on the scenario, really. If the gadgets were allowed, Batman would win this. (Personally)

 

[Wutsumattayu]

Assuming Kenichi is fighting because Miu suddenly becomes infatuated with a handsome Bruce Wayne outside of costume, and he also thinks that Bruce would be inherently dangerous to both Miu and Ryozanpaku as a whole, I think Ken can take this. The stat difference just seems too great going by eos Ken implications. If we give Bruce as much as one of his low end Batsuits he suddenly has a huge durability increase and a cape to give him some advantages. With the cape he can actually cause enough of a distraction to get a few clean hits in and his batsuit gives him enough damage soak to survive Kenichi's combos to al imited degree. Batman can just use various pressure point attacks to bypass Kenichi's durability and with the suit his skill should even out the stat disparity. it would eventually come down to if Kenichi can land a finishing combo cleanly before Batman lands a nerve strike into bat kick combo, which seems pretty even to me.

I might have to re-read HSDK to make sure i'm not highballing any feats tho.

 

[Merrick.southall]

I'd definitely give it to Kenichi.

What qualifies as being a master of martial arts in the series that he is from and the DC Universe is very different. Batman absolutely would not be considered a master in HSDK, 127 styles or not.

Kenichi has knocked out people that are well more than twice his size, and possibly even more than twice his weight. Not to mention almost everyone he is ever defeated was more experienced than he was. The techniques that are used in his world are too exotic for Batman to deal with. Honestly the Seikuken + Mubyoshi would probably be enough to win.

 

[GreatestSin]

batman is awesome and with prep time i would give it to him, maybe even with weapons, but hand to hand between peak human vs superhuman+ is kind of a mismatch imo,

kenichi wins 99/100 times ^_^

 

[Wutsumattayu]

I recently re-read the manga and honestly until you get to master class there isn't anything Batman couldn't deal with. Masters range from DC peak human in abilities and physicals to Akuma from street fighter but even with Kenichi's Sikuken+ Muboyoshi Bruce would have it. Not only is he physically superior in every way and have knowledge of most of Kenichi's techniques anyway he also has similar techniques through advanced body reading he learned from David Cain(and also experience fighting against it through David and Cassie Cain) he also knows hundreds of pressure point attacks and kill moves he's modified to be nonlethal to ohk most beings without magical or physiological immunities. The Leopard Blow he copied from Shiva being the most notable I can think of. Honestly the only advantage Kenichi has is Durability if we count the Appachai deathblows as serious and not just used for comedic effect.

 

[Reppuzan]

Peak human? You mean jumping these distances unaided, flipping speeding cars , tanking ballistic missiles, and destroying entire buildings from the aftershock of the clashes between Master-class fighters is Peak Human? Wow, the human race is a lot stronger than I thought.

Yes, Batman is a master martial artist, but he's badly outstripped in terms of physical stats. The definition of Master in HSDK means pulling off incredible feats that far surpass any human, such as only appearing on a high-speed camera for a split second.while playing around.

Kenichi is only disciple level in this brawl, so Bats has a chance, but one decent hit and Batman is absolutely screwed.

 

[Wutsumattayu]

Low end Master classes are around DC PEAK HUMAN which is far above real life peak human. Also you used feats from higher end master class characters, Ryozanpaku are all at the top of the Master Class as was stated in the manga. if you want to use them as a bench mark you might as well use Bruce Lee in his prime for the average adult male.

If Bruce went up against any of the masters from ryozanpaku he'd almost certainly lose but against any disciple class and most expert and the lowest of master class he could take at least a 5/10.

 

[Reppuzan]

So Batman and Lady Shiva can toss cars and tanks around. Okay.

But that's besides the point. I agree with your assessment that Batman could take this 5/10 with his superior tactics and gadgetry

 

[Wutsumattayu]

you completely misunderstood my statement. Regular low tier masters rarely have those types of feats and it has been stated in the manga that the masters shown were either mid or high tier masters, except the one "new master" Kenichi and his friends fought on the boat(or maybe it was the disciple tournament i forget) and i think a few of the weapon masters that showed up to be used as fodder. They never showed any feats like the ones you are attributing to normal masters, it was only the higher tier guys. Low tier masters and high tier experts are much closer in skills and abilities than low tier masters and high tier masters like the ryozanpaku guys who I say again would most likely wreck Batman even with a suit and gadgets. Against a disciple class fighter however Bruce would have little to medium difficulty taking it and given Kenichi's ramp up time he needs he really doesn't stand a chance against someone like Bruce who would want to end the fight quickly and would make sure Kenichi was down for the count before laying off.

 

[Goodyfresh]

People saying Batman would stand a chance here are fooling themselves. Without his gadvets, Batman would not stand a snowball's chance in hell against a fictional martial-artist of Kenichi's level. The dude has SIGNIFICANT Ki-based enhancements and the ability to put massive amounts of Ki into his strikes to the point that simply being in close proximity to one of his later-in-series battles would probably knock-out an ordinary human just from the waves of Ki.

Fact is, regardless of Batman's "greater skill and tactics and experience" or whatever Batman-fans (and don't get me wrong guys, I love DC Comics and Batman) want to go on about here, Kenichi has large-to-massive advantages in lifting-strength, striking-strength, movement speed, attack and reaction speed, dodging ability (due to Seikuken and Ryusui Seikuken), perception (he has the Inner-Eye of Ki Sense), and durability; the last one cannot be overstated. Kenichi can tank MULTIPLE hits from guys who are easily building-level and still keep fighting to dish out room-level+ attacks himself.

Basically, ANY of Kenichi's stronger techniques (Strongest Combos, Mubyoshi, or Korui Nuki) would easily knock-out (not kill, but knock out. . .well okay, Korui Nuki would kill him, lol) a bare-handed, un-armored Bruce Wayne in a single hit, no matter what. And, Kenichi would be far too fast for Bruce to avoid that hit.

Also, the conditions of the fight said "morals off," right? THen those of you saying that Kenichi's slow startup-time would be a disadvantage have not been paying proper attention. HE ONLY STARTS SLOW BECAUSE HE DISLIKES VIOLENCE. Bloodlusted or with morals off, Kenichi would no longer be a slow starter in a fight.

I mean all you guys are wanking Batman so hard right now. Did you actually check the respective tiers of each character in terms of things like striking strength, speed, etc.? It doesn't matter that Batman is smarter, he is physically only Peak Human. Kenichi, by the end of the manga while still a Disciple, is quite firmly in the Superhuman category.

And stop saying Batman could take this with his gadgets, that's not the point, the conditions of the Battle said no gadgets, hand-to-hand, morals off. SO KENICHI WINS DUE TO SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER TIER. End of story.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Physically Peak Human? Nah, I got LOTS of scans that easily put him on the high league of Wall Level, but I agree that Kenichi is stronger than him.

But about speed... It may not count, but I have tons of Batman speed feats that should put him, at least, as an equal to Kenichi's speed.

 

[Reppuzan]

Yeah, our main Batman profile lists him at Wall level and Subsonic.

Batman does have a chance, but Kenichi can and will give him hell by this Wiki's rules.

 

[Legion350]

Kenichi is faster and stronger and batman has no gadgets.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Subsonic+? That's quite the lowball, considering Batman has multiple bullet-timing feats, and he consistently displays that level of speed.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Subsonic+? That's quite the lowball, considering Batman has multiple bullet-timing feats, and he consistently displays that level of speed.

He's never shown doing it but end-of-series disciple-level Kenichi is DEFINITELY at bullet-timing level speed-wise, as he's at supersonic speeds already even before he gets even stronger and then in the end learns "Ki Holding" which provides a LARGE multiplier-type boost, it would seem, to all his stats (strength, speed, durability, and even perception). Also, mid-series (after about a year of his training, while by the end of the series he has trained for over two years) he manages to beat Sho Kano, a character who is both stated and shown to be a bullet-timer, in large part due to having superior reactions and dodging.

Anyway, Batman isn't supersonic just because he is a bullet-timer, as it is possible to DODGE something while not being nearly as fast as the thing one is dodging (just look at some of the dodging feats Spider Man pulls off thanks to his Spider Sense, for good examples of what I mean).


Now guys, this is going to be really reeeeaaallyyyy long here, but please bear with me because I have to set the record straight here as someone quite familiar with both of these characters who can clearly see that Batman is getting WAY too much hype compared to Kenichi in this thread:

People saying Batman could win this, I'm guessing, are quite familiar with DC Comics but have not actually read the entire HSDK manga. Anyone who's read that ENTIRE manga, as well as read significant amounts of DC comics over the years, as I have, could tell you that yeah, end-of-series "disciple"-level (by then he'd really be "expert"-level in HSDK terminology) Kenichi could PWN Batman without his gadgets. Genetically Ordinary Human Martial Artists in DC are NOT like the human Martial Artists in HSDK, the difference in levels is VAST, seriously. And don't say that Batman's pressure-point attacks would work on Kenichi, because Kenichi has powerful Ki-augmented "inner strength" that blocks such things unless they are augmented with enough Ki to bypass Kenichi's defenses (like the "Marma Point" attacks that Ethan Stanley used against Kenichi).

I mean, let's take ONE example here, just one of many, showing how far above even DC Comics "Peak Human" level Kenichi must be: In chapter 200-something of HSDK, Tirawit Kokin is clearly shown to have a straight vertical leap of at least fifteen to twenty-five feet when still completely casual. About a hundred chapters later (a few months in-universe time), Kenichi manages to handily defeat and K.O. Tirawit Kokin by in the end of the fight simply overwhelming him with sheer physical power, meaning that Kenichi is physically stronger than this guy who can casually jump two dozen feet vertically in the air. This is still a significant ways from the end of the series, and by the end of the series even before the epilogue (i.e. while still just a 17 year old "disciple") Kenichi has gotten significantly stronger physically and MUCH stronger with his Ki-Usage due to his power-up of learning "Ki-Holding." What does this mean? This means that BARE MINIMUM, end-of-series, seventeen-year-old, still "disciple" Kenichi should be capable of at least two to three times the leap we saw Kokin perform much earlier, so Kenichi should be capable of at least a 40 to 50 foot straight vertical leap, PROBABLY a good bit more (which isn't the least bit far-fetched considering that his masters from Ryozanpaku have been shown jumping HUNDREDS of feet in single leaps before)! Are you guys seriously trying to tell me that "peak humans" in DC Comics are capable of anything close to that? Sure, they're capable of feats significantly beyond Olympic Athletes, but a 50 foot vertical jump (hell, even a 25 foot jump) goes well into the realm of actual "superhuman" ability, guys.

So if we have all the facts, we can see that Kenichi is a guy with at least a 40 to 50 foot vertical leap, room-to-small-building level attack potency, the abiilty to run as fast or faster than a car at highway speeds for prolonged periods with SUPERSONIC burst-movement and combat speed, high level Ki-based abilities, immunity to pressure-point attacks (like those known to Batman) that do not utilize a high-level of Ki, at least bullet-timing-level reactions, and building level durability. He also has a repertoire of attacks which, while not AS impressive as Bruce Wayne's mastery of 127 styles, is STILL absolutely gigantic, and arguably consists of many more "special" attacks which are truly IMPRESSIVE (attacks like his Strongest Combos, A-Punch and Chai-Kick, Mubyoshi, Korui Nuki, etc), as well as the defensive techniques Seikuken and Ryusui Seikuken which honestly should make Batman completely unable to lay a finger on him due to the boost to blocking and dodging ability that they give.

So, with Kenichi's speed and dodging/blocking abilities, Batman probably couldn't even touch him, and even if he did manage to land a hit, Kenichi could tank whatever he can throw at him due to his inner-strength and his building-level external durability. On the other hand, Batman's durability is only at the high end of wall level or the low end of room level. . .ANY of Kenichi's more truly powerful attacks, which are all at small building level, would knock out or kill Batman with a single hit, seriously. And let's not forget that he's able to throw out some of those higher-level attacks very quickly, like the Strongest Combos or the Chai-Kick! The outcome is clear: Sorry guys, but Bruce Wayne aka Batman would not stand a CHANCE without his gadgets in this fight!!!!!!!


A final note:

One thing that hasn't been brought up at all is that TRUE END OF SERIES (epilogue), Grand-Master-or-Above (there are hints that Kenichi is meant to be molded to reach Legendary Master level like Hayato Furinji and surpass even the realm of Advanced Masters)-level Kenichi, as in, Kenichi at the same age as most of Bruce Wayne's depictions as Batman, a full-grown adult (which seems like a more fair version of Kenichi to pit against an adult like Bruce, haha) would absolutely DESTROY Bruce Wayne, possibly even WITH his gadgets considering the kind of crazy speed and skill feats shown for Advanced Masters in HSDK.

 

[Goodyfresh]

I hope the above very very long post puts an end to this Vs Battle which REALLY shouldn't have been a "debate" at all to begin with considering the tier-difference. I mean seriously, a 9-A character with supersonic-tier speed and building-level durability vs. a 9-B character with subsonic-tier speed. . . .really guys? Come on now. We're better than that on here. Or is this just a case of people loving Batman and DC comics so much while a manga like HSDK is far less well-known or loved, and so the more well-known and beloved character is being favored due to bias?

Anyway, hey, I PROPOSE A NEW, BETTER MATCH: Kenichi Shirahama vs. Deathstroke the Terminator in purely hand-to-hand combat, but with Deathstroke's healing factor somehow deactivated for the purposes of the match. Or, a double match, with Kenichi and Miu fighting side-by-side against Deathstroke and Bane, or something I doubt people will go along with this idea though since very few people give a crap about HSDK and Miu doesn't even have her own page on here, haha.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'm going to have to close this.

What Goodyfresh said pretty much sums up the situation here. Not only that, this match is them with morals off AND the speed is not equalized.