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I expected a lot....um Kafka resists those effects.
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Kefka vs Kafka (3-5-0)
- Thread starter DaReaperMan
- Start date
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@Hypertornado099 So we’re ignoring the scan that mentions Blizzard spells literally stating to freeze you to the point of you shattering into pieces? Also it being more powerful isn’t the argument, he’s utilizing it in a way Kafka does not resist, meaning any of the spells is going to screw her over and outright negate her durability. Also how exactly is her electrons being targeted not impressive when the scan says it slows down to the point she freezes and shatters over from any hit? Yes Kafka can oneshot, problem is Kefka already has some prior knowledge on her abilities, which will make him more willing to go on the evasive and use his shadow clone to overwhelm her like he did to Leo.
@Doggo You know he has a lot more spells right? He has damn near every final fantasy 6 spell with all of the Espers he’s collected from the massacre so he’s not out of options in this fight.
@Doggo You know he has a lot more spells right? He has damn near every final fantasy 6 spell with all of the Espers he’s collected from the massacre so he’s not out of options in this fight.
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The prompt says he isn't aware of her physical strength.
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- #45
He is aware of her unresisted mindfuck though
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Okay. Then it's just a matter of who oneshots who (like usual). So incon it should be.
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The fact Kefka with prior knowledge on someone else in his story like Leo resorts to using a shadow clone that can replicate his exact same moves makes it harder for Kafka to land a oneshot given she'd need to know where the real Kefka is. The chances of Kefka landing any winning blows is higher than Kafka.
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They both start at 10m. How can he immediately send a clone? Why would you give him prep time? If that's the case, I can assume she'll phone call Elio and he'll tell her every single way this fight can go and lead her to the best result.
Even if he wastes his time to conjure that, she can mind hax him faster than he can run a second spell. And her mind hax is AoE and instant.
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Said AOE is tens of meters at best and we're talking about a guy who can fly around willy nilly and can spam magic from a distance. He'd just fly away from the range and cast spells and the fact he has prior knowledge on her spell makes it easy for him to just avoid it before it comes out.
TheKingStrategist13
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Tbh there is something extremely shady about some of these FF abilities, but this isn't a CRT, so
From what I gather, most of Kefka's arguments boil down to Subjective Reality doing something that she somehow can't handle. If Kefka goes for some blatant hax off rip, that should murderize Kafka (although I do subscribe to the idea that she resists the burning and freeze, but let's shelve that for now as his hax list is large enough that one of these should work on her, I would assume)
Kafka, on the other hand, even if she was TRYING to toy around, probably 1 shots if she lands a single hit. And if I understand right, her Mind Manip goes unresisted.
Seeing as both parties have prior knowledge on abilities, but not on stats;
Kefka seems to have a tendency to mess with his enemy. If he goes in for a physical encounter, he blatantly loses with her sheer advantage. If he goes for his clone summoning, that's probably his best move, but even if we assume that it's something he can do very fast...
Kafka has two wincons, if she gets a hit off she wins. If Kefka makes it so she'll have trouble doing that, she can just use her Mind Hax and at that point it's easy for her to make him stay in place and let her hit him, for instance.
If Kefka DID go for something broken that she doesn't resist as soon as the fight began, maybe he can win. But this doesn't seem in character. Kafka, on the other hand, should have no qualms with winning this fight in the most efficient way possible- That most likely means not letting him get too far away before she casts her mind manip, or just one shotting him if he decides to get close. My vote goes to Kafka, mainly because Kefka seems unlikely to try as hard as her for the win.
From what I gather, most of Kefka's arguments boil down to Subjective Reality doing something that she somehow can't handle. If Kefka goes for some blatant hax off rip, that should murderize Kafka (although I do subscribe to the idea that she resists the burning and freeze, but let's shelve that for now as his hax list is large enough that one of these should work on her, I would assume)
Kafka, on the other hand, even if she was TRYING to toy around, probably 1 shots if she lands a single hit. And if I understand right, her Mind Manip goes unresisted.
Seeing as both parties have prior knowledge on abilities, but not on stats;
Kefka seems to have a tendency to mess with his enemy. If he goes in for a physical encounter, he blatantly loses with her sheer advantage. If he goes for his clone summoning, that's probably his best move, but even if we assume that it's something he can do very fast...
Kafka has two wincons, if she gets a hit off she wins. If Kefka makes it so she'll have trouble doing that, she can just use her Mind Hax and at that point it's easy for her to make him stay in place and let her hit him, for instance.
If Kefka DID go for something broken that she doesn't resist as soon as the fight began, maybe he can win. But this doesn't seem in character. Kafka, on the other hand, should have no qualms with winning this fight in the most efficient way possible- That most likely means not letting him get too far away before she casts her mind manip, or just one shotting him if he decides to get close. My vote goes to Kafka, mainly because Kefka seems unlikely to try as hard as her for the win.
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She has Extradimensional Range. Even if you lowball it and say Spirit Whisper isn't Imaginary Energy, it can still reach tens of meters.
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And please, update my vote for Kafka. The only way this is incon, is if he goes for oneshot hax. Which even his profile says he usually doesn't.
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- Thread starter
- #53
Hey you're the one who had their last post voting being for incon lmfao
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@Nighting4l33yes The range that's specifically from channeling a source of energy? Which is completely separate from Spirit Whisper's range? Tens of meters isn't wide enough to catch someone who can fly and has prior knowledge on her abilities.
@TheKingStrategist13 Kefka's tendency to mess with his enemies is people he just meets and likes to torment. If it's someone he knows poses a threat he doesn't goof off, otherwise he wouldn't have snuck General Leo during the Esper massacre and went out of his way to make a Shadow clone of himself to distract him.
@TheKingStrategist13 Kefka's tendency to mess with his enemies is people he just meets and likes to torment. If it's someone he knows poses a threat he doesn't goof off, otherwise he wouldn't have snuck General Leo during the Esper massacre and went out of his way to make a Shadow clone of himself to distract him.
TheKingStrategist13
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Even in the scan on his profile regarding his duplication, it shows him actively messing around with the general, showing up after the Shadow is felled and openly talking to and mocking the General for thinking he had hit him at all. His profile also explicitly states that the only time he really tries seems to be when he is truly agitated. So I still highly doubt Kefka will do anything beyond toying with Kafka, which leads to a very high probability of him losing to her.
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I am not sure I understand. Img Energy is extradimensional. All types of it. And she can use it. Img Energy can also be used to empower one's self and to amplify stats. Her Spirit Whisper being non-Imaginary is very unlikely as she is a Pathstrider.
Also, about his fire and ice stuff, she has biological manip resistance and resistance to reality warping. So he definitely won't be able to affect her electrons.
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So the idea is that Kefka's magic operates on similar principles to Ubel from Frieren, right? Something like "even if this is 'fire-proof,' I imagine it being burned by my fire and my subjective reality has enough authority in this case to override."
Incidentally, how high is the source "authority" of FF Magic? Or more directly, how much resistance to Subjective Reality or the effects themselves would be enough to resist a Kefka spell? And do most FF characters who don't instantly die to FF Magic have some sort of defense -- say, a (FF) Magic-Defense stat -- that not every other verse has an equivalent for? Might be a factor if Kafka is pulling from something similar, though not all magic systems are equal in authority or identical in bases covered.
And as far as range goes, I think the idea Glass is getting at is something like how FF Magic exists all throughout the universe and can be tapped into from anywhere, but that doesn't mean you can snipe from a million miles away unless you've demonstrated doing so. Like how in Star Wars, the Force is pervasive enough to give Darth Vader the range to choke someone over a phone call, but that doesn't mean every technique or every Force-wielder has that range. Same goes for Honkai stuff. So that Spirit Whisper attack should have only the range it's been shown to have.
I dunno enough about the gatcha girl to make a call here, but if this is a "who hits first" scenario and Kafka doesn't have thought-based instant-contact (as opposed to travelling-projectile) attacks or even just start with those in-character as opposed to melee, then the underhanded sneaky mage who likes to make clones, use illusions, fly, and teleport (no prep-time needed) seems to have an advantage here.
Incidentally, how high is the source "authority" of FF Magic? Or more directly, how much resistance to Subjective Reality or the effects themselves would be enough to resist a Kefka spell? And do most FF characters who don't instantly die to FF Magic have some sort of defense -- say, a (FF) Magic-Defense stat -- that not every other verse has an equivalent for? Might be a factor if Kafka is pulling from something similar, though not all magic systems are equal in authority or identical in bases covered.
And as far as range goes, I think the idea Glass is getting at is something like how FF Magic exists all throughout the universe and can be tapped into from anywhere, but that doesn't mean you can snipe from a million miles away unless you've demonstrated doing so. Like how in Star Wars, the Force is pervasive enough to give Darth Vader the range to choke someone over a phone call, but that doesn't mean every technique or every Force-wielder has that range. Same goes for Honkai stuff. So that Spirit Whisper attack should have only the range it's been shown to have.
I dunno enough about the gatcha girl to make a call here, but if this is a "who hits first" scenario and Kafka doesn't have thought-based instant-contact (as opposed to travelling-projectile) attacks or even just start with those in-character as opposed to melee, then the underhanded sneaky mage who likes to make clones, use illusions, fly, and teleport (no prep-time needed) seems to have an advantage here.
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No. Honkai characters just straight up have extradimensional range. It's part of how the magic system works. It can reach anything.
Subjective Reality doesn't have any inherent properties afaik.
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Kafka FRA
Mbpoops
He/Him- 9,776
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Up to the 12th dimension
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Making sure I'm hearing your case right. So the idea is that with prior knowledge as in the OP, Kafka's going to pass on her usual guns etc and instead start with this special technique, Sleep/Spirit Whisper, and that will 100% tag and beat Kefka regardless of where he is or if she knows where he is, regardless of his no-prep-needed illusions and teleportation and such, before he can hit her with so much as a single instantaneous dura-neg typical FF spell?
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Range is definitely not an issue. And she can see through invisibility. So she is definitely opening with that and reaching him no matter what. At most she needs to speak a word to activate it. Or make a tiny gesture.
I assume the duraneg would stem from the whole electron based thing that's bc of subj reality but she resists biological manipulation and reality warping.
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Biological manip resistance does not stop your electrons from being turned into literal fire.
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its paired with fire and reality warping res tho
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- #67
Fire res just means she can take the heat, not that she will be unbothered by many of her electrons just being fire now.
Mbpoops
He/Him- 9,776
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fire resistance
Mbpoops
He/Him- 9,776
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then whats the point in fire resistance if you cant resist the fire?
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So, when you get a paper cut, are you unbothered? How about a paper cut, but then you're skinned from that point? That's what I mean by that post.
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You do realise lowering the speed of electrons is something regular freezing does right? When something's temperature decreases, the average speed of their electrons will get lower too. Kafka resists freezing, so this won't happen.
He doesn't know how strong Kafka is, only her abilities, so its likely that he'd attempt to fight her to absorb her energy. If he uses a shadow to fight her, he can just kill it pretty easily and then kill Kefka too. It says frozen targets can be shattered yes, but resisting freezing is enough to counter this
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Doesn't Kafka resist being put into a block of ice, not being turned into ice? Two different animals, there.
Ruby_R_Dracula
She/Her- 5,222
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hmm following
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Mbpoops
He/Him- 9,776
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im not really following this
are you saying hes turning her into fire itself? thats more like transmutation than actual fire manip
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Glass can double-check me on this, but going off the profile, the idea is that FF spells are like Ubel from Frieren magically cutting things way above her physical AP; they just "imagine" their target having these effects happen and it's willed into reality. But while in-verse resistances might be explained by targets utilizing Magic (as defense in terms of not just barrier spells and such but having Magical properties in general), I'm not sure how high the authority of Magic spells has against those without verse-specific resistances or how much resistance to reality warping and such is needed to survive. I'm personally interested in outlining this for the sake of avoiding NLFs on FF's side, although Kefka has Death spells and other stuff that Kafka may not be able to resist regardless.
Ok, with priors I can believe she'd start off with the Whisper. But I'm still not sure that she'd be able to get Kefka with it before he got her with his own oneshot spells. I see her profile does have NPI but I don't see anything about dealing with outright invisibility or -- and this is a key distinction -- illusions. Which in themselves are going to be throwing spells at her. Is the Whisper as simple as Kafka speaking it at nowhere in particular & Kefka hearing it and being in trouble even if he doesn't hear it and/or is a gazillion miles away? Some demonstrative footage would be helpful.
AlipheeseXIV
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I seriously hope you just worded this extremely poorly and aren't trying to argue what I think you are, but I'm just going to say it anyways, this isn't combat applicable in the slightest. The only thing that has extradimensional range in her kit is the general ability to draw from IE NOT her abilities like her spirit whisper. So I don't even understand why you're mentioning this as if it's relevant for the matchup when they generally won't even be going outside the area the fight takes place in, let alone going to some 12th dimensional plane of reality to have this fight
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It works just by hearing it. And she has Neutral Vision.
Pardon? It's been accepted and used before that this range is combat applicable. Also genuinely what are you talking about? My response was saying that she has a way to reach him if he decides to get out of her range.
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Woo! Honkai fans are trying to kill eachother!
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That's a daily occurence
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