Kefka vs Kafka (3-5-0)

[Doggo]

@Doggo It’s literally the most basic application of Final Fantasy magic, at least in the classic era. Any of the spells Kefka casts is him projecting what he’s imagining into reality, he imagines his target being frozen, burnt, driven mad, paralyzed among other status ailments in the final fantasy games are stuff he can do from the basic application.

I expected a lot....um Kafka resists those effects.

 

[Doggo]

This looks like a stomp if Kefka lacks dura neg options Kafka already resists

 

[Theglassman12]

@Hypertornado099 So we’re ignoring the scan that mentions Blizzard spells literally stating to freeze you to the point of you shattering into pieces? Also it being more powerful isn’t the argument, he’s utilizing it in a way Kafka does not resist, meaning any of the spells is going to screw her over and outright negate her durability. Also how exactly is her electrons being targeted not impressive when the scan says it slows down to the point she freezes and shatters over from any hit? Yes Kafka can oneshot, problem is Kefka already has some prior knowledge on her abilities, which will make him more willing to go on the evasive and use his shadow clone to overwhelm her like he did to Leo.

@Doggo You know he has a lot more spells right? He has damn near every final fantasy 6 spell with all of the Espers he’s collected from the massacre so he’s not out of options in this fight.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Yes Kafka can oneshot, problem is Kefka already has some prior knowledge on her abilities, which will make him more willing to go on the evasive and use his shadow clone to overwhelm her like he did to Leo.

The prompt says he isn't aware of her physical strength.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The prompt says he isn't aware of her physical strength.

He is aware of her unresisted mindfuck though

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

He is aware of her unresisted mindfuck though

Okay. Then it's just a matter of who oneshots who (like usual). So incon it should be.

 

[Theglassman12]

The fact Kefka with prior knowledge on someone else in his story like Leo resorts to using a shadow clone that can replicate his exact same moves makes it harder for Kafka to land a oneshot given she'd need to know where the real Kefka is. The chances of Kefka landing any winning blows is higher than Kafka.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

The fact Kefka with prior knowledge on someone else in his story like Leo resorts to using a shadow clone that can replicate his exact same moves makes it harder for Kafka to land a oneshot given she'd need to know where the real Kefka is. The chances of Kefka landing any winning blows is higher than Kafka.

They both start at 10m. How can he immediately send a clone? Why would you give him prep time? If that's the case, I can assume she'll phone call Elio and he'll tell her every single way this fight can go and lead her to the best result.

Even if he wastes his time to conjure that, she can mind hax him faster than he can run a second spell. And her mind hax is AoE and instant.

 

[Theglassman12]

Said AOE is tens of meters at best and we're talking about a guy who can fly around willy nilly and can spam magic from a distance. He'd just fly away from the range and cast spells and the fact he has prior knowledge on her spell makes it easy for him to just avoid it before it comes out.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Tbh there is something extremely shady about some of these FF abilities, but this isn't a CRT, so

From what I gather, most of Kefka's arguments boil down to Subjective Reality doing something that she somehow can't handle. If Kefka goes for some blatant hax off rip, that should murderize Kafka (although I do subscribe to the idea that she resists the burning and freeze, but let's shelve that for now as his hax list is large enough that one of these should work on her, I would assume)

Kafka, on the other hand, even if she was TRYING to toy around, probably 1 shots if she lands a single hit. And if I understand right, her Mind Manip goes unresisted.

Seeing as both parties have prior knowledge on abilities, but not on stats;

Kefka seems to have a tendency to mess with his enemy. If he goes in for a physical encounter, he blatantly loses with her sheer advantage. If he goes for his clone summoning, that's probably his best move, but even if we assume that it's something he can do very fast...

Kafka has two wincons, if she gets a hit off she wins. If Kefka makes it so she'll have trouble doing that, she can just use her Mind Hax and at that point it's easy for her to make him stay in place and let her hit him, for instance.

If Kefka DID go for something broken that she doesn't resist as soon as the fight began, maybe he can win. But this doesn't seem in character. Kafka, on the other hand, should have no qualms with winning this fight in the most efficient way possible- That most likely means not letting him get too far away before she casts her mind manip, or just one shotting him if he decides to get close. My vote goes to Kafka, mainly because Kefka seems unlikely to try as hard as her for the win.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Said AOE is tens of meters at best and we're talking about a guy who can fly around willy nilly and can spam magic from a distance. He'd just fly away from the range and cast spells and the fact he has prior knowledge on her spell makes it easy for him to just avoid it before it comes out.

She has Extradimensional Range. Even if you lowball it and say Spirit Whisper isn't Imaginary Energy, it can still reach tens of meters.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

And please, update my vote for Kafka. The only way this is incon, is if he goes for oneshot hax. Which even his profile says he usually doesn't.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And please, update my vote for Kafka. The only way this is incon, is if he goes for oneshot hax. Which even his profile says he usually doesn't.

Hey you're the one who had their last post voting being for incon lmfao

 

[Mbpoops]

kafka fra

 

[Theglassman12]

@Nighting4l33yes The range that's specifically from channeling a source of energy? Which is completely separate from Spirit Whisper's range? Tens of meters isn't wide enough to catch someone who can fly and has prior knowledge on her abilities.

@TheKingStrategist13 Kefka's tendency to mess with his enemies is people he just meets and likes to torment. If it's someone he knows poses a threat he doesn't goof off, otherwise he wouldn't have snuck General Leo during the Esper massacre and went out of his way to make a Shadow clone of himself to distract him.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

@TheKingStrategist13 Kefka's tendency to mess with his enemies is people he just meets and likes to torment. If it's someone he knows poses a threat he doesn't goof off, otherwise he wouldn't have snuck General Leo during the Esper massacre and went out of his way to make a Shadow clone of himself to distract him.

Even in the scan on his profile regarding his duplication, it shows him actively messing around with the general, showing up after the Shadow is felled and openly talking to and mocking the General for thinking he had hit him at all. His profile also explicitly states that the only time he really tries seems to be when he is truly agitated. So I still highly doubt Kefka will do anything beyond toying with Kafka, which leads to a very high probability of him losing to her.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

@Nighting4l33yes The range that's specifically from channeling a source of energy? Which is completely separate from Spirit Whisper's range? Tens of meters isn't wide enough to catch someone who can fly and has prior knowledge on her abilities.

I am not sure I understand. Img Energy is extradimensional. All types of it. And she can use it. Img Energy can also be used to empower one's self and to amplify stats. Her Spirit Whisper being non-Imaginary is very unlikely as she is a Pathstrider.

Also, about his fire and ice stuff, she has biological manip resistance and resistance to reality warping. So he definitely won't be able to affect her electrons.

 

[Follow_Doctor_Freeman]

So the idea is that Kefka's magic operates on similar principles to Ubel from Frieren, right? Something like "even if this is 'fire-proof,' I imagine it being burned by my fire and my subjective reality has enough authority in this case to override."

Incidentally, how high is the source "authority" of FF Magic? Or more directly, how much resistance to Subjective Reality or the effects themselves would be enough to resist a Kefka spell? And do most FF characters who don't instantly die to FF Magic have some sort of defense -- say, a (FF) Magic-Defense stat -- that not every other verse has an equivalent for? Might be a factor if Kafka is pulling from something similar, though not all magic systems are equal in authority or identical in bases covered.

And as far as range goes, I think the idea Glass is getting at is something like how FF Magic exists all throughout the universe and can be tapped into from anywhere, but that doesn't mean you can snipe from a million miles away unless you've demonstrated doing so. Like how in Star Wars, the Force is pervasive enough to give Darth Vader the range to choke someone over a phone call, but that doesn't mean every technique or every Force-wielder has that range. Same goes for Honkai stuff. So that Spirit Whisper attack should have only the range it's been shown to have.

I dunno enough about the gatcha girl to make a call here, but if this is a "who hits first" scenario and Kafka doesn't have thought-based instant-contact (as opposed to travelling-projectile) attacks or even just start with those in-character as opposed to melee, then the underhanded sneaky mage who likes to make clones, use illusions, fly, and teleport (no prep-time needed) seems to have an advantage here.

 

[Nighting4l33yes]

Same goes for Honkai stuff. So that Spirit Whisper attack should have only the range it's been shown to have.

No. Honkai characters just straight up have extradimensional range. It's part of how the magic system works. It can reach anything.

So the idea is that Kefka's magic operates on similar principles to Ubel from Frieren, right? Something like "even if this is 'fire-proof,' I imagine it being burned by my fire and my subjective reality has enough authority in this case to override."

Subjective Reality doesn't have any inherent properties afaik.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Kafka FRA

 

[Mbpoops]

No. Honkai characters just straight up have extradimensional range. It's part of how the magic system works. It can reach anything.

Up to the 12th dimension