Kaguya Otsutsuki stat change

[Non-Bias]

Hmm...
IMO:-

Tier: 5-C, likely 5-B

Attack Potency: Moon level+ via power-scaling, likely Planet level with Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball (add Planet level calc link)

Durability: Likely Planet level (was going to survive her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball)

Her other stats seem fine to me.

I always found it weird that Kaguya's durability wasn't planet level even though she was going to survive the process of destroying her planet. I'm glad to see someone else bring that up.

 

[A6colute]

I'm agree with Lord Kavpeny.

 

[Sheoth]

Hmm...
IMO:-

Tier: 5-C, likely 5-B

Attack Potency: Moon level+ via power-scaling, likely Planet level with Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball (add Planet level calc link)

Durability: Likely Planet level (was going to survive her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball)

Her other stats seem fine to me.

Works for me

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will change it.

 

[Kavpeny]

Hmm...I made some minor adjustments.

 

[Antvasima]

That is fine.

 

[Joseph619]

While I think just 5-C should be fine because of her lack in feats (she has zero planet busting feats even with powerscaling), the edit looks good enough for now. But we're being too lenient here, as we're giving more importance to assumptions (her ETSB being planet buster) than on panel feats. That's not a good thing imo

 

[Kavpeny]

Lack of feats has always been a problem in shounen manga. The feats-only approach is incorrect, as it entirely dismisses power-scaling. Not to mention there's a calc to back up the Planet level claim.

Disprove the calc to disprove the claim. It's as simple as that.

 

[Joseph619]

When the calc is based on pixel scaling there's nothing to disprove. You can make several assumptions on Kurama's size based on pixel scaling. Pixel scaling is a total mess

Kaguya is not a planet buster by feats or powerscaling, I don't see how powerscaling makes her planet buster since nobody is above moon level in Naruto

The juubi's head was calced to be 1km tall, even though you could see Madara and Obito clearly when they stood on top of its head. Pixel scaling is completely inaccurate because writers can't draw everything to scale all the time

Juubi's head +torse = 1km in size

Madara and Obito standing on Juubi's head

If Juubi's head+torse is 1km, How big are the humans then? 50m tall?

Pixel scaling, sorry it doesn't make sense

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

When was the Juubi calced at being 1 km tall. I remember Madara's PS being around 2.4 km and Madara's PS is very small compared to the Juubi...

 

[Joseph619]

Here's what a human compares in size to 100m meter tall giant. Mind you, this is just 100m

Human vs 100m tall giant

If the giant is 300m tall

Human vs 300m tall giant compariso

The human is 6 feet tall, as tall as Madara. If the Juubi is 1 km, the human appears as a dandruff on it's head.

Here's the calculator Tool to compare human height

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I agree that pixel scaling is not anywhere near perfect due to inconsistencies, but it is frequently the only thing that we can use to calculate feats. Hence, in lack of better options, I have understood that most calculation groups tend to accept and use it.

 

[Joseph619]

Not only pixel scaling is useless for Naruto because of it's huge inconsistency (humans would be legit 30m tall at least from Juubi's size calc), it still doesn't make Kaguya anywhere near planet level. She can't destroy her dimensions because she never did. We can't give imaginary feats to her based on hyped statement from unreliable characters. Neither those statements or pixel scalings are credible.

I find pixel scaling more unreliable than the statements to be honest

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Depth in perception has to be applied in this. Unless they're standing side by side you can't properly compare them. There's also the angle which you need to factor in....

 

[Joseph619]

Depth in perception has to be applied in this. Unless they're standing side by side you can't properly compare them. There's also the angle which you need to factor in....

This is preciously why pixel scaling is inaccurate. Not to mention the inconsistency of the author himself where he doesn't draw to scale on every panel..Madara's PS has appeared way smaller during his fight with Hashirama than it did in it's first appearance. Pixel scaling is extremely unreliable. Kurama appears in various sizes throuhout the manga, there are lots of proof.

Somebody calced Whis to be billions of times FTL based on the map of DBZ universe. If we followed the logic earth itself would be millions of lightyears in size

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

When I said Depth in perception has to be applied in this. "This" meant pixel scaling as a whole. And pixel scaling has to be applied in most cases. But some not so much. The only time pixel scaling can be properly used is on things like mountains. Because they're stationary and are far more consistent. You don't need to bring in Kurama and Madara's PS here. I know of some scans where Naruto's head is disproportional to his body.

Hmmmm did you look at the calc. How many times do I have to say that the map wasn't to scale.

 

[Joseph619]

Pixel scaling in OBD is often exaggerated, taking only the high end showings while ignoring the low end ones. I know of one calc which estimated Naruto earth to be smaller than ours based on the size of shinju tree. Pixel scaling is not a strong argument really. Not only it's inaccurate in itself, it's also based on inconsistent scans which are rarely drawn to scale. It's a double edged sword, high showing and low showing can make stats change hugely

And of course, none of those makes Kaguya and planet buster because she lacks feats completely, and not even powerscaling helps

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

We can use pixel scaling for inamiate objects eg: mountains. And for ones which don't have so may multiple showings in it. Also just because an OBD calc is wrong or unreasonable doesn't mean pixel scaling as a whole is wrong.

Powerscaling kinda helps. She's far more powerful the Naruto and Sasuke combined (the only reason they beat her is because of PIS and CIS) but I don't know if this warrants her being Planet Level since naruto and sasuke at that time wern't even Moon Level.

 

[Kavpeny]

@Joseph619: Sorry, but pixel scaling method is going to stay, whether you like it or not. However, if Kaguya's calc in particular uses a scan which is not up to scale, feel free to point it out. If your inaccurate scale claim is well-founded, her Planet level listing will be reconsidered from scratch.

 

[Illuminati478]

i am not going to bother reading through all those walls of text, i will counter the original poster's points one by one:

1) irrelevant, in these modern days we judge feats via calculations, so she doesn't need to bust a planet in order to be planet level...

2) and 3) also irrelevant since she is not planet level via Chibaku Tensei, but by different technique...

4) as irrelevant as points 1, 2 and 3 for the same reasons

5) again, irrelevant as she has a quantifible planet level feat, obito's dimension is an astral one, somewhat like the inner world concept in bleach, the dimension Kaguya created was a physical one.

6) everything that happaned in the battle against Kaguya was purely PIS and that just goes to show how incompetant Kishimoto really is, however it doesn't devalue the calculation that has been made....

good day.

 

[Non-Bias]

i am not going to bother reading through all those walls of text, i will counter the original poster's points one by one:
1) irrelevant, in these modern days we judge feats via calculations, so she doesn't need to bust a planet in order to be planet level...

2) and 3) also irrelevant since she is not planet level via Chibaku Tensei, but by different technique...

4) as irrelevant as points 1, 2 and 3 for the same reasons

5) again, irrelevant as she has a quantifible planet level feat, obito's dimension is an astral one, somewhat like the inner world concept in bleach, the dimension Kaguya created was a physical one.

6) everything that happaned in the battle against Kaguya was purely PIS and that just goes to show how incompetant Kishimoto really is, however it doesn't devalue the calculation that has been made....

good day.

While Kaguya never destroyed a planet on panel, it's actually pretty obvious that she can.

http://www.***********.to/naruto-chapter-685-page-14.html

Kaguya has a core dimension, which is directly connected with the other five dimensions she created (lava, ice, sand, acid, and gravity)

From that core dimension, she was going to create a sixth dimension using her Truth Seeking Ball

http://i.imgur.com/AylvJUd.png (Black Zetsu said that this was the creation of another dimension which means that this is how she created the other ones)

The planet within her dimensions are easily the size of Earth (probably a little bigger) as seen on panel, which she was going to destroy.

http://www.***********.to/naruto-chapter-691-page-11.html

I'd say that this is enough evidence to say that she's planet level.

 

[Joseph619]

Pixel scaling is fine, it was not even an issue for my original arguement. Lets see what the problem is. discovering the planet sizehttp://i.imgur.com/R1Wef3i.png when kaguya was sealed she became the core of a new moo for her planet planet diameter 1919px moon diameter 443px moon radius 1736km planet radius 7520.05417607 km planet diameter 15040.1083521 km getting planet's GBENow, i'll plug the planet diameter with earth's gravity on this PPC to get the planet mass GBE =3GM^2/5r G=6,67*10^-11 M= 8.311E+24 kg R=7520054 m GBE=3.6758914e+32 joules kaguya's planet GBE Quote:87.855913 zetato

The size of the planet, or it's gravitation binding energy is not relevant. It's because she can't destroy a planet IN THE FIRST PLACE. Lets go forward to see why.


Below is the supposedly claim behind her planet busting. Did they mention planet here? NO. Was she able to destroy the planet? NO. Could she destroy it? Maybe, according to the databook. The claim based on a claim from Databook which mentions World (not planet, mind you). I will show why it's wrong (I already did before actually)


Why Prime kaguya gets it She has displayed full control over her dimensions. After tooking out her goudama zetsu states she would " start a new dimension" (implying she created the other ones) databook states she can destroy "worlds" with the goudama Quote:Originally Posted by reborns allmarkKaguya's Expansive Truthseeker Orb (Þå¿Õ╝Áµ▒éÚüôþÄë, Bōchō Gudōdama) is listed as a Kekkei Mora ninjutsu. It says that she used the Divine Tree to absorb chakra from all of the shinobi and create a maximized (µÑÁÕñºÕîû) Truthseeker Orb. The equivalent (ÕÉîÒüÿþë®ÒüáÒüî, same/identical/similar) black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode can't be compared to its dimensions. Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to oblitrate the world and return it to nothing. Caption: Comprised of all chakra natures, a vast, expanding mass is filled to the brim. Created to reshape the world, it was a huge mass of chaos.If this is enough , we have a solid planet level feat for kaguya

First of all, "Kaguya has full control over her dimension". This is false as she got owned by the gravity on her own planet while Kakashi and Obito were running around . Clearly, she's not in control of everything, and Obito did hack into her dimension, without her permissio Most importantly, it doesn't prove anything.

Zetsu's words are hyperbole as he claimed Itachi was completely invincible I doubt if Zetsu actually comprehend what either starting a dimension or being invincible means. Obito has his personal pocket dimension. Doesn't mean he is planet level. Her Rinne Sharingan gives her access to several pocket sized dimensions, just as Kamui for Obito.

Databook states she can destroy worlds, databook also said Temari was universe buster (or blower) or only Madara has perfect susanoo

The only claim here is from databook which claim it had the power to oblitrate the world, which is the same as Temari blowing away the universe. All the claims here are based on hyped statement and assumption, which I have stated several times already. There's no feat and it's ALL BASED ON DATABOOK HYPE AND ZETSU'S STATEMENT. ALL OF IT. Neither feats or powerscaling approve this. There's NO evidence for planet busting. Feats put her at country level, powerscaling puts her at moon level plus+. Planet level = 2000+ moon level. Kaguya can't do anything such as planet busting

 

[Non-Bias]

Pixel scaling is fine, it was not even an issue for my original arguement. Lets see what the problem is.
discovering the planet sizehttp://i.imgur.com/R1Wef3i.png when kaguya was sealed she became the core of a new moo for her planet planet diameter 1919px moon diameter 443px moon radius 1736km planet radius 7520.05417607 km planet diameter 15040.1083521 km getting planet's GBENow, i'll plug the planet diameter with earth's gravity on this PPC to get the planet mass GBE =3GM^2/5r G=6,67*10^-11 M= 8.311E+24 kg R=7520054 m GBE=3.6758914e+32 joules kaguya's planet GBE Quote:87.855913 zetato

The size of the planet, or it's gravitation binding energy is not relevant. It's because she can't destroy a planet IN THE FIRST PLACE. Lets go forward to see why.


Below is the supposedly claim behind her planet busting. Did they mention planet here? NO. Was she able to destroy the planet? NO. Could she destroy it? Maybe, according to the databook. The claim based on a claim from Databook which mentions World (not planet, mind you). I will show why it's wrong (I already did before actually)


Why Prime kaguya gets it She has displayed full control over her dimensions. After tooking out her goudama zetsu states she would " start a new dimension" (implying she created the other ones) databook states she can destroy "worlds" with the goudama Quote:Originally Posted by reborns allmarkKaguya's Expansive Truthseeker Orb (Þå¿Õ╝Áµ▒éÚüôþÄë, Bōchō Gudōdama) is listed as a Kekkei Mora ninjutsu. It says that she used the Divine Tree to absorb chakra from all of the shinobi and create a maximized (µÑÁÕñºÕîû) Truthseeker Orb. The equivalent (ÕÉîÒüÿþë®ÒüáÒüî, same/identical/similar) black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode can't be compared to its dimensions. Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to oblitrate the world and return it to nothing. Caption: Comprised of all chakra natures, a vast, expanding mass is filled to the brim. Created to reshape the world, it was a huge mass of chaos.If this is enough , we have a solid planet level feat for kaguya

First of all, "Kaguya has full control over her dimension". This is false as she got owned by the gravity on her own planet while Kakashi and Obito were running around . Clearly, she's not in control of everything, and Obito did hack into her dimension, without her permissio Most importantly, it doesn't prove anything.

Zetsu's words are hyperbole as he claimed Itachi was completely invincible I doubt if Zetsu actually comprehend what either starting a dimension or being invincible means. Obito has his personal pocket dimension. Doesn't mean he is planet level. Her Rinne Sharingan gives her access to several pocket sized dimensions, just as Kamui for Obito.

Databook states she can destroy worlds, databook also said Temari was universe buster (or blower) or only Madara has perfect susanoo

The only claim here is from databook which claim it had the power to oblitrate the world, which is the same as Temari blowing away the universe. All the claims here are based on hyped statement and assumption, which I have stated several times already. There's no feat and it's ALL BASED ON DATABOOK HYPE AND ZETSU'S STATEMENT. ALL OF IT. Neither feats or powerscaling approve this. There's NO evidence for planet busting. Feats put her at country level, powerscaling puts her at moon level plus+. Planet level = 2000+ moon level. Kaguya can't do anything such as planet busting

How did Kaguya create other dimensions then?

 

[Joseph619]

Why does it matter how she created her dimension? Does it matter how Obito created his dimension? For all we know, both rinne sharingan and Kamui grants you access to pocket dimensions. Kaguya can't even control the effects of gravity on herself in her own dimension

Kaguya got sealed before she could do anything, that's all we know. Eveything else is just as I said, ALL BASED ON DATABOOK HYPE AND ZETSU'S STATEMENT.

 

[Non-Bias]

Why does it matter how she created her dimension? Does it matter how Obito created his dimension? For all we know, both rinne sharingan and Kamui grants you access to pocket dimensions. Kaguya can't even control the effects of gravity on herself in her own dimension
Kaguya got sealed before she could do anything, that's all we know. Eveything else is just as I said, ALL BASED ON DATABOOK HYPE AND ZETSU'S STATEMENT.

Sometimes characters statements are important if the feats are consistent enough. Black Zetsu said that Kaguya was about to create another dimension. For all intents and purposes, he was pretty much saying "by the way, this is how she created the other dimensions". Kaguya started with a Genesis Dimension (Beginning Dimension) and she personally created the other five dimensions of lava, acid, ice, gravity, and sand via her TSB.

By the way, she can control the gravity in her dimension

http://www.***********.to/naruto-chapter-687-page-17.html

"Adjusting and compensating now"

 

[Rib78]

she was adjusting her aim to compensate for the gravity, not adjusting the gravity itself, that wouldn't require compensating for anything, and she was still being pushed to the ground.

Agree with everything else though.

 

[Illuminati478]

my points still stand, if Kaguya has the power to exert a damn 87 zetatons of energy, that means she is planet level, this is how it is and stays...