JUUJIKA UPDATES

[Arthur_Nando444]

The verse has been showing several notable feats that haven’t received proper attention on the Wiki (probably because the verse is kind of abandoned). As a way to spread awareness of these feats and some of my calculations, I’ll list them below in hopes of updating the verse and the character profiles (not trying to be offensive, but the writing quality of the profiles is terrible and very outdated). Now, let’s go over the notable feats (at least the ones I noticed that didn’t get enough attention).

Kibe cuts a steel door with his sword

This feat occurs in chapter 175 of Juujika. It’s a simple one that someone should calculate — it should come out as Wall level or higher, depending on the type of steel — and it involves pulverization by the cutting pattern and the absence of visible debris after Kibe’s attack.

Kibe cuts a tree

This feat also occurs in chapter 175. I calculated it and got 13 MJ of energy, which is Wall+ level (Tier 9-B). I’d like someone to evaluate it to see if it’s correct or if it needs adjustment. If I’m right, this would be a solid upgrade for the high tiers of Juujika, since Uruma is able to catch Kibe’s sword mid-swing and break it.

Kibe reacts to and survives an explosion

This feat occurs in chapter 172 (and before anyone says otherwise — yes, he actually perceived and reacted to it, since it’s clearly shown in the panel that Kibe notices the shockwave and raises his arm in time to block it). I calculated Kibe’s speed in this feat to be Hypersonic - 2,752 m/s or Mach 8, and his durability at 8 MJ. This would be a major speed upgrade for the verse, since Uruma and Kibe are relative.

Uruma dodges a bullet

This feat happens in chapter 222, and it’s straightforward — Kyou fires a shot toward Uruma, and he reacts and dodges it. It’s a clear and solid feat that would be a good upgrade for the verse’s top tiers. I calculated this one as Transonic - 362 m/s or Mach 1.06.

Young Noboru intercepts a strike from young Kibe

This feat occurs in chapter 174, in a flashback from Kibe. The feat is that Noboru intercepts Kibe’s fork strike mere centimeters away from his own face. I calculated this as Supersonic - 498 m/s or Mach 1.45. Before anyone says otherwise — young Noboru and Kibe aren’t exactly comparable, but Noboru manages to attack without Kibe noticing (even though it’s from behind, both are elite assassins trained by the military — Kibe’s attack was meant to test Noboru’s reflexes, which implies Noboru surpassed Kibe’s reflexes) and escapes with Eiko before Kibe can react. So this feat doesn’t suffer from “reaction scaling” problems — it’s a concrete one.

Momoki saves Kyou from a bullet

This feat happens in chapter 223, where Uruma is about to kill Kyou with a shot, and Momoki clearly intercepts it after the bullet is already in flight toward him. What’s interesting? Momoki isn’t portrayed as a fighter — she’d be considered a low-tier character — yet she performs what’s possibly the highest speed feat in her tier. Someone really needs to calculate this. This should upgrade a large part of the cast to Supersonic or higher, since Uruma was very close to Kyou when he fired.


The feats above are the most notable ones in the verse. Now I’ll mention some smaller ones, which at least deserve to be acknowledged. I won’t go into too much detail since they’re simpler.

• Madoka surviving a short fall;
• Ushiro breaking down a door;
• Ganno breaking down a door (this would scale to his lifting strength);
• Kuga smashing the ground with a punch;
• Teen Uruma casually carrying a barrel full of water and mantis shrimp;
• Adult Uruma casually ripping out a trachea and breaking a neck.

Well, that’s all...
Kibe carries the verse

 

[Pyro9278]

I don't know if the calculations are correct or not, but if you want to use some, you must wait for an evaluation from a calculation member.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Kibe cuts a tree

This feat also occurs in chapter 175. I calculated it and got 13 MJ of energy, which is Wall+ level (Tier 9-B). I’d like someone to evaluate it to see if it’s correct or if it needs adjustment. If I’m right, this would be a solid upgrade for the high tiers of Juujika, since Uruma is able to catch Kibe’s sword mid-swing and break it.

Not how cutting calc works. You have to do compressive strength * area * width of the blade.

Kibe reacts to and survives an explosion

This feat occurs in chapter 172 (and before anyone says otherwise — yes, he actually perceived and reacted to it, since it’s clearly shown in the panel that Kibe notices the shockwave and raises his arm in time to block it). I calculated Kibe’s speed in this feat to be Hypersonic - 2,752 m/s or Mach 8, and his durability at 8 MJ. This would be a major speed upgrade for the verse, since Uruma and Kibe are relative.

This just gives an error

Uruma dodges a bullet

This feat happens in chapter 222, and it’s straightforward — Kyou fires a shot toward Uruma, and he reacts and dodges it. It’s a clear and solid feat that would be a good upgrade for the verse’s top tiers. I calculated this one as Transonic - 362 m/s or Mach 1.06.

Seems Fine

Young Noboru intercepts a strike from young Kibe

This feat occurs in chapter 174, in a flashback from Kibe. The feat is that Noboru intercepts Kibe’s fork strike mere centimeters away from his own face. I calculated this as Supersonic - 498 m/s or Mach 1.45. Before anyone says otherwise — young Noboru and Kibe aren’t exactly comparable, but Noboru manages to attack without Kibe noticing (even though it’s from behind, both are elite assassins trained by the military — Kibe’s attack was meant to test Noboru’s reflexes, which implies Noboru surpassed Kibe’s reflexes) and escapes with Eiko before Kibe can react. So this feat doesn’t suffer from “reaction scaling” problems — it’s a concrete one.

Ig

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

I don't know if the calculations are correct or not, but if you want to use some, you must wait for an evaluation from a calculation member.

I know that, I'm just asking for these feats to be included on the back cover, since Juujika is quite neglected and needs an update. The calculations are just there as a bonus.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

Not how cutting calc works. You have to do compressive strength * area * width of the blade.

The pulverization values are basically the compressive strength of the material multiplied by its volume. This would still be correct, since compression utilizes the entire contact area multiplied by the distance (which is the material's thickness). This is literally the volume, so it hardly changes.

See the scans; it shows that the thickness of the cut (which I use as the height of my cylinder) would be much greater than the thickness of the blade.

This just gives an error.

Sorry, I just fixed the link.

Seems Fine

Thanks! It's a shame you're not part of the calculus group...

Ig

Hm?

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

The pulverization values are basically the compressive strength of the material multiplied by its volume. This would still be correct, since compression utilizes the entire contact area multiplied by the distance (which is the material's thickness). This is literally the volume, so it hardly changes.

See the scans; it shows that the thickness of the cut (which I use as the height of my cylinder) would be much greater than the thickness of the blade.

If you got an image post cut which shows more than the blade length was destroyed, then we gucci (that means we good).

Hm?

Ig stands for I guess don't really have an opinion on it

 

[Zefra3011]

I heavily disagree with any calculation above subsonic+ for this verse. Uruma has been shot by guns on two occasions, is shown to aim-dodge bullets (he doesn't have a reason to move from side to side of the corridor to dodge bullets), and doesn't have the reflexes even to try to save people from falling stuff, which are clearly far slower than bullets.

All the "dodging bullets" feat you showed there isn't a single proof of anyone moving AFTER the bullet; they can easily be aim-dodging, which is far more consistent with the rest of the narrative.

EDIT: also, it doesn't really make sense that Kyou needs to be saved from a bullet when he is comparable to Uruma, and characters are supposed to dodge them, by your arguments.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

I heavily disagree with any calculation above subsonic+ for this verse. Uruma has been shot by guns on two occasions, is shown to aim-dodge bullets (he doesn't have a reason to move from side to side of the corridor to dodge bullets)

In the occasions when Uruma was not able to react to the gunshots, it was simply because of the shock of the one who was shooting (which in this case was Jun, who, in the first occasion, he didn’t expect that from, and in the second, it was because he believed him to be his ally and also because of the memories coming back), which made him stay “conscious unconscious” (I wouldn’t know the exact state of Uruma, but it would be something like that), which allowed him to be hit by the shots, and that’s simply not uncommon, it has happened a few times that Uruma’s mind collapsed and he became unresponsive, but that doesn’t mean he is slower than those projectiles.

and doesn't have the reflexes even to try to save people from falling stuff, which are clearly far slower than bullets.

About the falling object thing, again, taken out of context, Uruma was in complete shock and paralyzed (to a certain extent) about choosing someone to die, because if he didn’t make his choice, everyone would die. Before any decision or before Uruma came back to himself, the thing had already fallen and crushed the policewoman.

EDIT: also, it doesn't really make sense that Kyou needs to be saved from a bullet when he is comparable to Uruma, and characters are supposed to dodge them, by your arguments.

About the thing of Kyou “needing” to be saved, that’s totally fallacious, he didn’t want to be saved, he was excited (his own words) with the idea of dying, so he has NO REASON AT ALL to try to dodge when what he longs for is to be killed.

In short: everything you said is taken out of context, I recommend that you pay more attention to the work.

 

[Zefra3011]

Yeah... With all this, the author clearly meant Uruma to react at nearly 3 km/s. I just disagree and might comment further if those calcs get accepted.

But I also agree that Juujika's profiles are in a bad state, partially my fault as well.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

Yeah... With all this, the author clearly meant Uruma to react at nearly 3 km/s. I just disagree and might comment further if those calcs get accepted.

But I also agree that Juujika's profiles are in a bad state, partially my fault as well.

Are you referring to Kibe's explosion? In fact, the speed aspect can be considered an atypical case; because most (notable, major) feats are at the Subsonic+ ~ Supersonic level, while this feat is at the hypersonic level (but what to expect, it's an explosion, haha). You can disagree as much as you want; if you can refute it, that's another story; otherwise, it's better to accept it...

Well, is there anything else to comment on that proves these feats qualify as inconsistent within the universe?

By the way, what do you think of the Attack Potency, Durability, and the small inverse feats?

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Following

 

[Viott]

Kibe cuts a tree

This feat also occurs in chapter 175. I calculated it and got 13 MJ of energy, which is Wall+ level (Tier 9-B). I’d like someone to evaluate it to see if it’s correct or if it needs adjustment. If I’m right, this would be a solid upgrade for the high tiers of Juujika, since Uruma is able to catch Kibe’s sword mid-swing and break it.

If he’s doing this with a sword, you can’t use the “Volume × compressive strength” formula. You need to use the shear formula instead.

You can recalculate based on this calculation.

Leo cuts a tree in half

vsbattles.fandom.com

Kibe reacts to and survives an explosion

This feat occurs in chapter 172 (and before anyone says otherwise — yes, he actually perceived and reacted to it, since it’s clearly shown in the panel that Kibe notices the shockwave and raises his arm in time to block it). I calculated Kibe’s speed in this feat to be Hypersonic - 2,752 m/s or Mach 8, and his durability at 8 MJ. This would be a major speed upgrade for the verse, since Uruma and Kibe are relative.

Since this is an explosion, the explosion formula should be used.

Look at this.

When Should Volumetric Destruction Be Used?

So here's something I thought of that recently concerned me. Hell, I even made that mistake myself. So, let's get down to the nitty-gritty of this topic. I shall put up some examples that would involve things that qualify as structures... Okay, so the first calc I'll bring up is one of my own...

vsbattles.com

I won’t comment on the hypersonic one. I’ll just wait for the CGM members.

Uruma dodges a bullet

This feat happens in chapter 222, and it’s straightforward — Kyou fires a shot toward Uruma, and he reacts and dodges it. It’s a clear and solid feat that would be a good upgrade for the verse’s top tiers. I calculated this one as Transonic - 362 m/s or Mach 1.06.

This is Aim Dodging.

Young Noboru intercepts a strike from young Kibe

This feat occurs in chapter 174, in a flashback from Kibe. The feat is that Noboru intercepts Kibe’s fork strike mere centimeters away from his own face. I calculated this as Supersonic - 498 m/s or Mach 1.45. Before anyone says otherwise — young Noboru and Kibe aren’t exactly comparable, but Noboru manages to attack without Kibe noticing (even though it’s from behind, both are elite assassins trained by the military — Kibe’s attack was meant to test Noboru’s reflexes, which implies Noboru surpassed Kibe’s reflexes) and escapes with Eiko before Kibe can react. So this feat doesn’t suffer from “reaction scaling” problems — it’s a concrete one.

There’s no evidence that he moved 0.8123305 m within this timeframe. We don’t know when Noboru moved his arm, because there’s no shot showing his arm when Kibe is about to attack. He could have covered a shorter distance.

Momoki saves Kyou from a bullet

This feat happens in chapter 223, where Uruma is about to kill Kyou with a shot, and Momoki clearly intercepts it after the bullet is already in flight toward him. What’s interesting? Momoki isn’t portrayed as a fighter — she’d be considered a low-tier character — yet she performs what’s possibly the highest speed feat in her tier. Someone really needs to calculate this. This should upgrade a large part of the cast to Supersonic or higher, since Uruma was very close to Kyou when he fired.

I won’t comment until this feat is calculated.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

If he’s doing this with a sword, you can’t use the “Volume × compressive strength” formula. You need to use the shear formula instead.

Review the scans; the reason I used compression/pulverization is because there are no visible debris from the destruction after cutting the kibbeh, and this usually occurs with perfect cuts. Shearing/Fragment clearly wouldn't fit because there are no visible remains after cutting.

You can recalculate based on this calculation.

Leo cuts a tree in half

vsbattles.fandom.com

The calculation you linked uses Pulverization itself.

Since this is an explosion, the explosion formula should be used.

Look at this.

When Should Volumetric Destruction Be Used?

So here's something I thought of that recently concerned me. Hell, I even made that mistake myself. So, let's get down to the nitty-gritty of this topic. I shall put up some examples that would involve things that qualify as structures... Okay, so the first calc I'll bring up is one of my own...

vsbattles.com

You misinterpreted my calculation. At no point did I base my calculation on the volumetric destruction of the forest to find the energy of the explosion, but rather on the estimated mass of the explosives.
The reason I didn't use the explosion formula is because the panels don't allow me to clearly determine the radius of the fireball. The only thing I could use would be the height of the trees, since the shock wave passed through them, but the Psi would come into question, as the value would be extremely confusing, so I opted for something simpler and more direct: The explosives.

This is Aim Dodging.

There is no solid evidence that it is aim evasion, especially when Kyou and Uruma are shown to be comparable.

There’s no evidence that he moved 0.8123305 m within this timeframe. We don’t know when Noboru moved his arm, because there’s no shot showing his arm when Kibe is about to attack. He could have covered a shorter distance.

The feat is literally explicit; the author wanted to convey the idea of how extremely sharp Noboru's reflexes are, allowing him to intercept objects at point-blank range. This has happened before (I mean, chapters before, since now it will be about the aged Noboru) with Andou and Miguel, when Noboru reacts precisely at the moment they are about to deliver a similar blow.

 

[Viott]

Review the scans; the reason I used compression/pulverization is because there are no visible debris from the destruction after cutting the kibbeh, and this usually occurs with perfect cuts. Shearing/Fragment clearly wouldn't fit because there are no visible remains after cutting.


The calculation you linked uses Pulverization itself.

You misunderstood. I'm not opposed to using the pulverization value. What I mean is you need to take the sword's thickness into account. Because the sharper the sword is, the easier it is to cut something, and therefore less energy is required.

Cutting formula: Compressive Strength * Area * The Thickness of the Sword

You misinterpreted my calculation. At no point did I base my calculation on the volumetric destruction of the forest to find the energy of the explosion, but rather on the estimated mass of the explosives.
The reason I didn't use the explosion formula is because the panels don't allow me to clearly determine the radius of the fireball. The only thing I could use would be the height of the trees, since the shock wave passed through them, but the Psi would come into question, as the value would be extremely confusing, so I opted for something simpler and more direct: The explosives.

That's not how things work. Since this is an explosion, the explosion formula should be used.

There is no solid evidence that it is aim evasion, especially when Kyou and Uruma are shown to be comparable.

??????

What are you talking about? That’s not what I wanted to say. Read the link I sent.

The feat is literally explicit; the author wanted to convey the idea of how extremely sharp Noboru's reflexes are, allowing him to intercept objects at point-blank range. This has happened before (I mean, chapters before, since now it will be about the aged Noboru) with Andou and Miguel, when Noboru reacts precisely at the moment they are about to deliver a similar blow.

This isn’t sufficient evidence. There’s no proof that he moved 0.8123305 m during this timeframe. He may have started moving earlier, which means he would have covered a shorter distance.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

You misunderstood. I'm not opposed to using the pulverization value. What I mean is you need to take the sword's thickness into account. Because the sharper the sword is, the easier it is to cut something, and therefore less energy is required.

Well, you should express yourself better. I never said you're against pulverization, but I only showed and reinforced with your own example that shearing is out of the question, just as you initially suggested.

Cutting formula: Compressive Strength * Area * The Thickness of the Sword

The drawing of when Kibe cuts the tree shows that the thickness (in this case, I'm using the height of the cylinder) exceeds the thickness of the blade.

That's not how things work. Since this is an explosion, the explosion formula should be used.

There's nothing that contradicts using the weight of explosives to determine their energy value and, consequently, their durability, but if you're saying so, I'll create an alternative method using the explosion formula.
Do you think it would be correct to use the height of average trees in Japan (where Juujika takes place) - the length of Kitami's leg + half of his torso (the character who triggers the explosives) as the explosion radius?
And use 20 Psi? Because: It pulverized more than half of Kitami's body, killed all the soldiers trained by Kibe (they would be superhuman because of this, which would imply greater durability compared to ordinary people), destroyed the nearest trees, and destroyed Noboru's small cabin, whose door was made of steel and whose structure possibly consisted of reinforced concrete and wood.

??????

What are you talking about? That’s not what I wanted to say. Read the link I sent.

Well...it seems you're right, I'll cross that out.

This isn’t sufficient evidence. There’s no proof that he moved 0.8123305 m during this timeframe. He may have started moving earlier, which means he would have covered a shorter distance.

Why wouldn't that be sufficient evidence? All these moments reinforce the idea of Noboru reacting point-blank.

 

[Viott]

Well, you should express yourself better. I never said you're against pulverization, but I only showed and reinforced with your own example that shearing is out of the question, just as you initially suggested.

You're wrong. I already express myself well. I told you that the cutting formula should be used. But you changed the subject and explained why you used the pulverization value.

The drawing of when Kibe cuts the tree shows that the thickness (in this case, I'm using the height of the cylinder) exceeds the thickness of the blade.

The problem is, he did this with his sword. As I said, the sharper the sword is, the easier it is to cut something, and therefore less energy is required.

There's nothing that contradicts using the weight of explosives to determine their energy value and, consequently, their durability, but if you're saying so, I'll create an alternative method using the explosion formula.
Do you think it would be correct to use the height of average trees in Japan (where Juujika takes place) - the length of Kitami's leg + half of his torso (the character who triggers the explosives) as the explosion radius?
And use 20 Psi? Because: It pulverized more than half of Kitami's body, killed all the soldiers trained by Kibe (they would be superhuman because of this, which would imply greater durability compared to ordinary people), destroyed the nearest trees, and destroyed Noboru's small cabin, whose door was made of steel and whose structure possibly consisted of reinforced concrete and wood.

10 psi is strong enough to kill most people. That’s why I think 10 psi is sufficient.

Why wouldn't that be sufficient evidence? All these moments reinforce the idea of Noboru reacting point-blank.

It doesn’t show when he started moving to block the fork. You’re assuming that the character moved 0.8123305 m within this timeframe. However, it’s not shown exactly when he started moving. Noboru might have started moving before Kibe did. Therefore, he could have covered a shorter distance within the timeframe you calculated.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

You're wrong. I already express myself well. I told you that the cutting formula should be used. But you changed the subject and explained why you used the pulverization value.

You yourself said "You should use shear," so I just explained why pulverization.

The problem is, he did this with his sword. As I said, the sharper the sword is, the easier it is to cut something, and therefore less energy is required.

Indeed, you are correct about that, however, again, the drawing clearly shows where the thickness of the cut exceeds the thickness of the blade, regardless of whether the blade is thin or not.

10 psi is strong enough to kill most people. That’s why I think 10 psi is sufficient.

Okay, I'll add 10 psi as the low line and 20 psi as the high line.
And what about the reasoning of using the height of the trees as the radius of the explosion, would that work?

It doesn’t show when he started moving to block the fork. You’re assuming that the character moved 0.8123305 m within this timeframe. However, it’s not shown exactly when he started moving. Noboru might have started moving before Kibe did. Therefore, he could have covered a shorter distance within the timeframe you calculated.

The beginning of his movement doesn't need to be EXTREMELY EXPLICIT; the panel clearly shows Kibe almost hitting him in the face at point-blank range, and Noboru's face is still expressionless/distracted. He clearly hadn't even started the movement yet.

 

[Viott]

You yourself said "You should use shear," so I just explained why pulverization.

As I said, you changed the subject. They’re not the same thing.

Indeed, you are correct about that, however, again, the drawing clearly shows where the thickness of the cut exceeds the thickness of the blade, regardless of whether the blade is thin or not.

I think you should add a new calculation using the cutting formula. Then wait for the CGM members’ response.

Okay, I'll add 10 psi as the low line and 20 psi as the high line.
And what about the reasoning of using the height of the trees as the radius of the explosion, would that work?

The trees aren’t fully visible. It would be better if you used the tree trunk diameter.

The beginning of his movement doesn't need to be EXTREMELY EXPLICIT; the panel clearly shows Kibe almost hitting him in the face at point-blank range, and Noboru's face is still expressionless/distracted. He clearly hadn't even started the movement yet.

Bro… The fact that Noboru’s face is expressionless is not evidence. If he had started moving later, do you think his face wouldn’t be expressionless? What you’re saying is just an assumption. I don’t think your calculation will be accepted.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

I think you should add a new calculation using the cutting formula. Then wait for the CGM members’ response.

Okay...I'll make a low line using the thickness of the blade.

The trees aren’t fully visible. It would be better if you used the tree trunk diameter.

Using the diameter of the tree trunk? Sorry, I didn't quite understand your reasoning.

Bro… The fact that Noboru’s face is expressionless is not evidence. If he had started moving later, do you think his face wouldn’t be expressionless? What you’re saying is just an assumption. I don’t think your calculation will be accepted.

Well, if he's expressionless, it's precisely because he hasn't started his movement yet, simple as that. Anyway, I'll just wait for a CGM opinion on this.

 

[Viott]

Using the diameter of the tree trunk? Sorry, I didn't quite understand your reasoning.

Use the diameter of the tree trunk as a reference to find the diameter of the explosion.

You also need to use the inverse square law.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

Use the diameter of the tree trunk as a reference to find the diameter of the explosion.

Look... as I said before, we don't have any references about the true extent of the explosion radius, so using the diameter of the tree trunk doesn't seem like it will work. That's why I suggested that the explosion radius would be equivalent to or greater than the height of a tree.

You also need to use the inverse square law.

What do you mean by using the inverse square law? Are you referring to this suggestion?

 

[Viott]

Look... as I said before, we don't have any references about the true extent of the explosion radius, so using the diameter of the tree trunk doesn't seem like it will work. That's why I suggested that the explosion radius would be equivalent to or greater than the height of a tree.

You're wrong. The width of the hole should be equal to the diameter of the explosion. Use the diameter of the tree trunk as a reference.
[]

What do you mean by using the inverse square law? Are you referring to this suggestion?

By looking at this calculation, it will be easier for you to calculate the inverse-square law.

The Boys: Chemical Plant Kaboom (RE-CALC)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

ACCEPTED CALCULATIONS​

As the title indicates, some calculations that I will cite below have been accepted.


Kibe reacts to and survives an explosion
with a slight reduction, going from Mach 8 and 8 MJ of durability to Mach 5 and 7 MJ (the version that uses the mass of the explosives was accepted).


Kibe cuts a tree
this feat suffered a large reduction in energy, as the version that uses the blade thickness for volume was accepted, causing the feat to drop to 119 KJ, serving more as support...


Young Noboru reacts to young Kibe
this was accepted reluctantly, as the member of the calculation group expressed concern (since he is not an enthusiast of the universe) about the veracity of this feat; therefore, we need the supporters of the universe to demonstrate their points of view on this to reach a conclusion on whether or not this feat should be used.


Well, having said all that, this puts the universe at the highest levels in MJ energy and hypersonic speed, a huge improvement.

@Viott @Pyro9278 @Zefra3011 @LegendariumOfLies @Dinozxd @Clout5560

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I personally am against having the verse being above sub+ due to Zefras reasoning

They all need to aim dodge bullets as well as been having been hit by them a few times which makes the explosion feat an outlier in speed

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

I personally am against having the verse being above sub+ due to Zefras reasoning

They all need to aim dodge bullets as well as been having been hit by them a few times which makes the explosion feat an outlier in speed

Sefra's reasoning ignores the contexts behind "anti-feats" of speed, and I have already demonstrated this.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

Addition of new calculations to the reverse side

Now I will cite more calculations that, as the title already says, have been accepted.

King throws Rikka — 9-C Street Level ~ Class 5

Ganno throws Uruma — 9-B Wall Level ~ Class 25

Kawana breaks a piece of wood — 9-C Street Level

These calculations have already been added to the verse, except for Ganno's LS, as it will be an update for the verse, hence this thread.

Now I will cite calculations that elevate the verse to the higher levels it currently occupies.

Uruma shakes a tree (Recalc)
This calculation was accepted as 9-A and Class K, updating almost the entire universe's cast, as it is a feat performed by an Uruma in training.

Momoki saves Kyou from a gunshot
This calculation was accepted as Hypersonic+. Even though Momoki is a Low tier within the universe, I believe she's the only one who scales to this estimated speed level in the calculation (within her category). That said, this upgrades the High tiers to Hypersonic+ level, characters like: Uruma Shun, Ganno, Kibe Juutarou, and Kyou Shigoku (there might be other characters who could scale to this level, but I can't think of any right now).

This is truly a huge upgrade.

@Viott @Pyro9278 @Zefra3011 @LegendariumOfLies @Dinozxd @Clout5560

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

Bump

 

[Viott]

Addition of new calculations to the reverse side

Now I will cite more calculations that, as the title already says, have been accepted.

King throws Rikka — 9-C Street Level ~ Class 5

Ganno throws Uruma — 9-B Wall Level ~ Class 25

Kawana breaks a piece of wood — 9-C Street Level

These calculations have already been added to the verse, except for Ganno's LS, as it will be an update for the verse, hence this thread.

Now I will cite calculations that elevate the verse to the higher levels it currently occupies.

Uruma shakes a tree (Recalc)
This calculation was accepted as 9-A and Class K, updating almost the entire universe's cast, as it is a feat performed by an Uruma in training.

Momoki saves Kyou from a gunshot
This calculation was accepted as Hypersonic+. Even though Momoki is a Low tier within the universe, I believe she's the only one who scales to this estimated speed level in the calculation (within her category). That said, this upgrades the High tiers to Hypersonic+ level, characters like: Uruma Shun, Ganno, Kibe Juutarou, and Kyou Shigoku (there might be other characters who could scale to this level, but I can't think of any right now).

This is truly a huge upgrade.

@Viott @Pyro9278 @Zefra3011 @LegendariumOfLies @Dinozxd @Clout5560

I will comment when I have time.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

Bump

 

[Viott]

King throws Rikka — 9-C Street Level ~ Class 5

Ganno throws Uruma — 9-B Wall Level ~ Class 25

There is no evidence that Ganno threw the uruma 6.95919824905134 meters within this timeframe. Because by the time the uruma hits the ground, Ganno has already finished his movement.

This also applies to the Class 5 calculation.

Uruma shakes a tree (Recalc)
This calculation was accepted as 9-A and Class K, updating almost the entire universe's cast, as it is a feat performed by an Uruma in training.

This calculation looks better than the previous one. Also, since Uruma has very few LS feats, I think Class K can be used.

Momoki saves Kyou from a gunshot
This calculation was accepted as Hypersonic+. Even though Momoki is a Low tier within the universe, I believe she's the only one who scales to this estimated speed level in the calculation (within her category). That said, this upgrades the High tiers to Hypersonic+ level, characters like: Uruma Shun, Ganno, Kibe Juutarou, and Kyou Shigoku (there might be other characters who could scale to this level, but I can't think of any right now).

I'm not sure about this calculation. I will wait for the CGM members.

Young Noboru reacts to young Kibe
this was accepted reluctantly, as the member of the calculation group expressed concern (since he is not an enthusiast of the universe) about the veracity of this feat; therefore, we need the supporters of the universe to demonstrate their points of view on this to reach a conclusion on whether or not this feat should be used.

For the reasons I explained above, I still do not agree with this calculation. I will wait for the CGM members.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

There is no evidence that Ganno threw the uruma 6.95919824905134 meters within this timeframe. Because by the time the uruma hits the ground, Ganno has already finished his movement.

This also applies to the Class 5 calculation.

It was my fault how I expressed myself, I apologize. What I meant to say was that, when King and Ganno were still finalizing their movements, the characters they launched had already reached the estimated distance. This can be seen when their arms showed the line of movement, indicating they were still in motion. Therefore, it's possible to establish a relationship between the events to determine the timeframe. I recommend you review this method here, here, and here so you can understand it better.

I'm not sure about this calculation. I will wait for the CGM members.

Well, there are a few details I'd like to agree on later, but overall, I believe it works. Momoki would have had to move around the room where Uruma and Shigoku were without being there before they both noticed, since they have extrasensory perception, which really indicates that his movement only occurred after Uruma fired. And this has already been accepted by one of the CGMs.

 

[Celest_Void]

Sounds good

 

[Viott]

It was my fault how I expressed myself, I apologize. What I meant to say was that, when King and Ganno were still finalizing their movements, the characters they launched had already reached the estimated distance. This can be seen when their arms showed the line of movement, indicating they were still in motion. Therefore, it's possible to establish a relationship between the events to determine the timeframe. I recommend you review this method here, here, and here so you can understand it better.

You didn’t understand what I meant. Ganno may have already moved his arm 90 degrees before Uruma reached 6.96 meters. Because when Uruma reaches 6.96 meters, we can see that Ganno has already finished his movement.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

You didn’t understand what I meant. Ganno may have already moved his arm 90 degrees before Uruma reached 6.96 meters. Because when Uruma reaches 6.96 meters, we can see that Ganno has already finished his movement.

He didn't finish his movement, I just misspoke. Look at the scans, there are lines of movement on his arm, which indicates that he was still completing his movement.

 

[Viott]

He didn't finish his movement, I just misspoke. Look at the scans, there are lines of movement on his arm, which indicates that he was still completing his movement.

What I mean is that Uruma might have completed the Ganno movement by covering a shorter distance.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

What I mean is that Uruma might have completed the Ganno movement by covering a shorter distance.

I didn't understand what you meant just now, could you rephrase it?

 

[Viott]

I didn't understand what you meant just now, could you rephrase it?

I don’t know how else I can explain it. Also, add the newly accepted calculations to the OP.


After that, you can call the staff.

 

[Dinozxd]

Kibe cuts a steel door with his sword

This feat occurs in chapter 175 of Juujika. It’s a simple one that someone should calculate — it should come out as Wall level or higher, depending on the type of steel — and it involves pulverization by the cutting pattern and the absence of visible debris after Kibe’s attack.

Kibe cuts a tree

This feat also occurs in chapter 175. I calculated it and got 13 MJ of energy, which is Wall+ level (Tier 9-B). I’d like someone to evaluate it to see if it’s correct or if it needs adjustment. If I’m right, this would be a solid upgrade for the high tiers of Juujika, since Uruma is able to catch Kibe’s sword mid-swing and break it

While these are fine (13 MJ for a tree cutting feat is wild though, the recalc makes much more sense), I don't believe that Uruma scales to Kibe's sword slashes. The scene you linked doesn't scale Uruma to Kibe's sword slashes because shattering a sword doesn't mean you scale to the swing of a sword. Splitting a sword scales to like, Athlete or Street level.

Kibe reacts to and survives an explosion

This feat occurs in chapter 172 (and before anyone says otherwise — yes, he actually perceived and reacted to it, since it’s clearly shown in the panel that Kibe notices the shockwave and raises his arm in time to block it). I calculated Kibe’s speed in this feat to be Hypersonic - 2,752 m/s or Mach 8, and his durability at 8 MJ. This would be a major speed upgrade for the verse, since Uruma and Kibe are relative.

Him raising his arms doesn't really mean that he actually reacted to the shockwave or the explosion, especially when we literally see the shockwave in question passing him in the panel where he was raising his arms. He could've also raised his arms much later. We just see him with his hands up when the explosion passes by him.

Young Noboru intercepts a strike from young Kibe

This feat occurs in chapter 174, in a flashback from Kibe. The feat is that Noboru intercepts Kibe’s fork strike mere centimeters away from his own face. I calculated this as Supersonic - 498 m/s or Mach 1.45. Before anyone says otherwise — young Noboru and Kibe aren’t exactly comparable, but Noboru manages to attack without Kibe noticing (even though it’s from behind, both are elite assassins trained by the military — Kibe’s attack was meant to test Noboru’s reflexes, which implies Noboru surpassed Kibe’s reflexes) and escapes with Eiko before Kibe can react. So this feat doesn’t suffer from “reaction scaling” problems — it’s a concrete one.

We don't see exactly when Noboru's hand is while Kibe attacks him, he could've already been reaching to block the attack in this panel (1st scan, far left corner).

There's also the obvious fact that Kibe wasn't swinging to kill Noboru as even though he wanted to kill him really badly, they were in a public area where if the attack actually landed and somehow killed Noboru Kibe would go to prison immediately lmao. I don't think Kibe attacked with his full power in this scene, which would be 12.43 m/s and his holding back speed would be unquantifiable and that's why I don't think this feat's calcable.

Momoki saves Kyou from a bullet

This feat happens in chapter 223, where Uruma is about to kill Kyou with a shot, and Momoki clearly intercepts it after the bullet is already in flight toward him. What’s interesting? Momoki isn’t portrayed as a fighter — she’d be considered a low-tier character — yet she performs what’s possibly the highest speed feat in her tier. Someone really needs to calculate this. This should upgrade a large part of the cast to Supersonic or higher, since Uruma was very close to Kyou when he fired.

We don't see when Momoki starts moving so it's unprovable if she started moving after or before the bullet was fired.

King throws Rikka — 9-C Street Level ~ Class 5

Yeah no, this is not how you calculate timeframes for throwing calcs.
1. No proof that the Rikka traveled 5 meters in the timeframe of King completing his movement, as we don't see that.
2. Assuming that King, an average dude, moved 5 m/s while carrying a human is wild.

Ganno throws Uruma — 9-B Wall Level ~ Class 25

Also same as this one.

Kawana breaks a piece of wood — 9-C Street Level

This one looks fine ig.

Uruma shakes a tree (Recalc)
This calculation was accepted as 9-A and Class K, updating almost the entire universe's cast, as it is a feat performed by an Uruma in training

1. You used highschool Uruma's height as reference but Uruma's younger than that here.
2. You assume that he moved at 7.7 m/s while he's carrying a tree on his back, which is baseless. Even if he did move at 7.7 m/s, the tree doesn't have to move at that speed (idk if I worded this badly, but it's basic physics yk).
3. 9-A for a verse that consistently shows 9-C to 9-B feats is an outlier too.


In the end, the only calcs I agree on are Kibe's tree cutting calc (which shouldn't scale to anyone but him) and Kawana breaking a piece of wood calc (which is... well, useless). Kibe cutting the steel door could be calculated though.

 

[Arthur_Nando444]

While these are fine (13 MJ for a tree cutting feat is wild though, the recalc makes much more sense), I don't believe that Uruma scales to Kibe's sword slashes. The scene you linked doesn't scale Uruma to Kibe's sword slashes because shattering a sword doesn't mean you scale to the swing of a sword. Splitting a sword scales to like, Athlete or Street level.

A simple logic: The sword persisted while cutting through the tree and the steel door, and the Uruma breaks easily.

Him raising his arms doesn't really mean that he actually reacted to the shockwave or the explosion, especially when we literally see the shockwave in question passing him in the panel where he was raising his arms. He could've also raised his arms much later. We just see him with his hands up when the explosion passes by him.

The explosion left traces of damage on Kibe, and when we see his body it's clear that only part of his face was affected, while the other part wasn't, suggesting efficient protection with one of his arms. In other words, he reacted to the explosion in time to protect part of his face.

We don't see exactly when Noboru's hand is while Kibe attacks him, he could've already been reaching to block the attack in this panel (1st scan, far left corner).


There's also the obvious fact that Kibe wasn't swinging to kill Noboru as even though he wanted to kill him really badly, they were in a public area where if the attack actually landed and somehow killed Noboru Kibe would go to prison immediately lmao. I don't think Kibe attacked with his full power in this scene, which would be 12.43 m/s and his holding back speed would be unquantifiable and that's why I don't think this feat's calcable.

Being alert ≠ the start of the movement. It makes absolutely no difference whether he knew about the attack or not, because it's EXTREMELY clear that his movement only began after Kibe was at point-blank range.

It wouldn't make sense for him to hold back when he wants to test his sharp reflexes, since he'll be counting on his help for some mission for the Kytaima Corps.

We don't see when Momoki starts moving so it's unprovable if she started moving after or before the bullet was fired.

She wasn't even in the room when the shot was about to be fired, and this is explicitly shown in the panels; it wouldn't make sense for her to start moving before the shot if she wouldn't even know about it, not being in the room.

Yeah no, this is not how you calculate timeframes for throwing calcs.
1. No proof that the Rikka traveled 5 meters in the timeframe of King completing his movement, as we don't see that.
2. Assuming that King, an average dude, moved 5 m/s while carrying a human is wild.

Also same as this one.

1 - As I told Viott: There are movement lines on King's arm after Rikka travels the 5 meters, meaning Rikka covered that distance within the time frame predicted for King's movement, the same case as Ganno, and this is also applied and accepted in Mashle's calculations (a reference from which I derived this method).

2 - Because King is an "ordinary" guy—even though throwing a woman with such ease isn't exactly the feat of an ordinary person—I use the average human speed (5 m/s) according to the parameters of the VS Battle Wiki.

1. You used highschool Uruma's height as reference but Uruma's younger than that here.
2. You assume that he moved at 7.7 m/s while he's carrying a tree on his back, which is baseless. Even if he did move at 7.7 m/s, the tree doesn't have to move at that speed (idk if I worded this badly, but it's basic physics yk).
3. 9-A for a verse that consistently shows 9-C to 9-B feats is an outlier too.

1 - Well... you have a point, can you think of an estimate for the height of this Uruma in question?

2 - The feat is extremely fast, so I assume he moves at athletic human speed. The tree has dimensions far superior to Uruma's, of course it would move at much higher speeds than Uruma, think about the physics (specifically the speed) of swords or any long blade.

3 - It is precisely the greatest feat of the verse, of course it would be superior to the various feats he has been presenting, but it is a 9-A with a low baseline, and we have feats that reach the MJ level in the verse that are still within the wall level.

 

[Dinozxd]

A simple logic: The sword persisted while cutting through the tree and the steel door, and the Uruma breaks easily.

That's not how logic works. Uruma didn't block or break the sword from the sharp side, he caught it without having to take the swing and broke it from the non sharp side.

The explosion left traces of damage on Kibe, and when we see his body it's clear that only part of his face was affected, while the other part wasn't, suggesting efficient protection with one of his arms. In other words, he reacted to the explosion in time to protect part of his face.

What?

Being alert ≠ the start of the movement. It makes absolutely no difference whether he knew about the attack or not, because it's EXTREMELY clear that his movement only began after Kibe was at point-blank range.

I didn't even say anything about him being alert. We don't see where his hand is in the panel (the panel where the fork is at close range). His hand could've been right below the start of the panel which would mean he only moved like, a few centimeters.

It wouldn't make sense for him to hold back when he wants to test his sharp reflexes,

He doesn't have to go all out to test his reflexes.

She wasn't even in the room when the shot was about to be fired, and this is explicitly shown in the panels; it wouldn't make sense for her to start moving before the shot if she wouldn't even know about it, not being in the room.

This is not really true. The entrance of the room isn't shown in the panel before Uruma fired the shot (here, this is literally the scan you linked in the calc), so Momoki could've already been at the entrance of the room as Uruma was gonna fire. Plus, we also don't see Momoki's movement as Uruma's pulling the trigger. She could've made the movement as he was pulling the trigger.

There are movement lines on King's arm after Rikka travels the 5 meters, meaning Rikka covered that distance within the time frame predicted for King's movement, the same case as Ganno, and this is also applied and accepted in Mashle's calculations (a reference from which I derived this method).

Assuming that Rikka fell at the same time as King completed his movement is baseless though. I know that they're in the same panel but that doesn't mean they happen at literally the same time.

2 - Because King is an "ordinary" guy—even though throwing a woman with such ease isn't exactly the feat of an ordinary person—I use the average human speed (5 m/s) according to the parameters of the VS Battle Wiki.

Almost all assumptions for calcs should be made in a case by case basis. Just cuz King should be able to move 5 m/s doesn't mean that he can consistently move that fast all the time.

1 - Well... you have a point, can you think of an estimate for the height of this Uruma in question?

We don't really know his age in that scene (I don't think so at least) so idk.

2 - The feat is extremely fast, so I assume he moves at athletic human speed. The tree has dimensions far superior to Uruma's, of course it would move at much higher speeds than Uruma, think about the physics (specifically the speed) of swords or any long blade.

"The feat is extremely fast" doesn't really have any basis for using Athletic Human speed, like the King throws Rikka calc. As for the physics part: You're right, if we could prove that Uruma moved 7.7 m/s with the tree.

3 - It is precisely the greatest feat of the verse, of course it would be superior to the various feats he has been presenting, but it is a 9-A with a low baseline, and we have feats that reach the MJ level in the verse that are still within the wall level.

It's the greatest feat of the verse but it's extremely higher compared to other feats. That's my problem. It would've been okay if this scaled to like a, god-god tier of the verse that's massively above everyone, but this Uruma isn't even that strong. A slightly older version of him got overpowered by Ganno and Kuga, who should scale much lower than Kibe's sword slashes which scale to like 120 KJs? It's just inconsistent.