Just a quick Jubi/Shinju Cleanup

[Nierre]

I was taking a look at the Jubi's Profile, and noticed how heavily outdated it is...

So I'm gonna attempt on fixing it.

Their AP and his Speed for some reason doesn't have the Juubi Spawns Key. So that needs to be added (Calling them Fission Beings is much cooler though...).

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Their AP for this key is Unknown, but they actually damaged Sai and also held their own against Base Sasuke and Naruto so they should be 7-B+ in AP.​

Their Speed should also scale to Naruto and Sasuke, so it should be MHS+​

Striking should scale to City Class​

Lifting should scale to Class M due to scaling to Naruto and Sasuke​

Durability would scale to Sakura (as it does), but it's outdated so it'll be changed to 7-B+.​

Next is the 1st Form Key

Shouldn't its AP scale above the combined Bijuu Bomb of Kurama and Gyuki? If his power was stronger than all of the Bijuu's combined, then it's AP should definitely be superior to that Biju Bomb, putting its AP at 6-B, just like the durability, and using its own Biju Bomb as support.​

Striking Class should upgrade to Country Class as well.​

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2nd Form Key

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Not sure why, but the AP Justification mentions the Tenpachii, when it should mention the Bijuu Bomb. The Tenpachii is support of course, but the main justification for its AP should be the Bijuu Bomb, so that should be reworded.​

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TMK Gedo Mazo, 3rd Key and the Unstable/Complete Form are fine, so they should stay the same.

Thoughts?

 

[Deceived3596]

Jewbi

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I mean the Juubi spawns also took hits from Base Naruto and Sasuke, who should be High 7-A or at least 7-A since 3T FKS Sasuke was High 7-A.

 

[Nierre]

it

I mean the Juubi spawns also took hits from Base Naruto and Sasuke, who should be High 7-A or at least 7-A since 3T FKS Sasuke was High 7-A.

Oh yeah you're right.. even in the anime it shows the same thing. Though how do you know it's 3T Sasuke? Because at least in the anime, he wasn't using Sharingan at all

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Oh yeah you're right.. even in the anime it shows the same thing. Though how do you know it's 3T Sasuke? Because at least in the anime, he wasn't using Sharingan at all

He wasn't using the Sharingan, but considering the big hatred amps he was getting throughout the FKS arc and the fighting amps he got throughout the FKS, Danzo fight, and Kabuto fight, Base Sasuke at this point should be superior to 3T FKS Sasuke, or at least downscale to Baseline High 7-A.

 

[Nierre]

I think the latter is fine, just to be safe. I'll edit the OP.

 

[Nierre]

I'd assume the durability would range from 7-B+ to High 7-A due to being kicked away by Naruto and also being defeated by Shino and even Hinata, but then also being able to clash with Base Sasuke in that panel that you sent.




Also off topic but, Choji is 7-A with Multi-Size Jutsu, either due to scaling from the Jubi Spawns or the Shinra Tensei from the Deva Path, either way, that should be removed because neither of those characters are 7-A.

 

[LordTracer]

He wasn't using the Sharingan, but considering the big hatred amps he was getting throughout the FKS arc and the fighting amps he got throughout the FKS, Danzo fight, and Kabuto fight, Base Sasuke at this point should be superior to 3T FKS Sasuke, or at least downscale to Baseline High 7-A.

No, this is a completely random and baseless assumption to make.

Also off topic but, Choji is 7-A with Multi-Size Jutsu, either due to scaling from the Jubi Spawns or the Shinra Tensei from the Deva Path, either way, that should be removed because neither of those characters are 7-A.

It’s upscaling from the Juubi spawn.

 

[LordTracer]

Their AP for this key is Unknown, but they actually damaged Sai so they should be 7-B+ in AP.Their Speed could also scale to Sai, or we can put it as possibly (or just "Unknown").Striking and Lifting should stay as/be Unknown.Durability would scale to Sakura (as it does), but it's outdated so it'll be changed to 7-B+.

The scans of them damaging Sai seem to be out of order, also gonna need the chapter where the scans come from.

Shouldn't its AP scale above the combined Bijuu Bomb of Kurama and Gyuki? If his power was stronger than all of the Bijuu's combined, then it's AP should definitely be superior to that Biju Bomb, putting its AP at 6-B, just like the durability, and using its own Biju Bomb as support.Striking Class should upgrade to Country Class as well.

Agree.

Not sure why, but the AP Justification mentions the Tenpachii, when it should mention the Bijuu Bomb. The Tenpachii is support of course, but the main justification for its AP should be the Bijuu Bomb, so that should be reworded.

Agree.

 

[Nierre]

It’s upscaling from the Juubi spawn.

Ahhh right, I forgot upscaling exists.

 

[Nierre]

The scans of them damaging Sai seem to be out of order, also gonna need the chapter where the scans come from.

Okay, it should be fixed now. This is in chapter 633.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

No, this is a completely random and baseless assumption to make.

There's a lot of downscaling/upscaling to baselines for Naruto. Like how Base Sasuke is downscaled to baseline 7-A from CS1 Sasuke. And unlike that situation where it's just different forms of the same character, Sasuke actually became a lot stronger. It's Base WA Sasuke>Base DF Sasuke>Base FKS Sasuke<3T FKS Sasuke. The difference is even similar ratio wise than in the Hebi Sasuke case (139 Megatons+ to 100 Megatons vs 1.39 Gigatons++ to 1 Gigaton).

 

[Nierre]

It’s upscaling from the Juubi spawn.

Also just for clarification - what is the "requirement" for upscaling? I thought it was 1.2x or 1.3x?
Because judging from the value of the 7-B+ characters (53.15 megatons), they're 1.88x away from baseline - some clarification would be greatly appreciated

 

[LordTracer]

There's a lot of downscaling/upscaling to baselines for Naruto. Like how Base Sasuke is downscaled to baseline 7-A from CS1 Sasuke.

This is completely irrelevant and not even correct. Taka Sasuke downscales to baseline 7-A, base Hebi Sasuke does not.

It's Base WA Sasuke>Base DF Sasuke>Base FKS Sasuke<3T FKS Sasuke. The difference is even similar ratio wise than in the Hebi Sasuke case (139 Megatons+ to 100 Megatons vs 1.39 Gigatons++ to 1 Gigaton).

This is just not how it works. We’re not gonna scale no Sharingan War Arc Sasuke to 3T FKS Sasuke without some actual evidence from the manga suggesting that they’re comparable. This is basically you just eyeballing Sasuke’s amps and going “yeah he should probably scale here now”.

Also just for clarification - what is the "requirement" for upscaling? I thought it was 1.2x or 1.3x?
Because judging from the value of the 7-B+ characters (53.15 megatons), they're 1.88x away from baseline - some clarification would be greatly appreciated

There is no set standard, it’s a case-by-case thing. To quote from the Powerscaling page:

It is possible for a character who is depicted as vastly superior to another in a statistic to be placed in a tier above the other, given that the other character is close to the the next tier. However, this ultimately needs to be decided through case-by-case analysis.

The 7-B+ characters get their tier from downscaling from 7-A characters, it’s fairly reasonable to say that those who can stomp or one-shot 7-B+ characters (like Chōji did with multiple Juubi spawn) can upscale.

 

[Nierre]

Makes sense to me. Thanks

 

[Nierre]

Well anyway we can do 7-B+ to 7-A since Base Taka Sasuke is 7-A.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This is completely irrelevant and not even correct. Taka Sasuke downscales to baseline 7-A, base Hebi Sasuke does not.

Where does the 7-A even come from then? There's no 7-A calc afaik. I'm pretty sure all the 7-B+ characters downscale from 7-A ones. 3T Hebi Sasuke scales to Itachi who scales to Kisame who scales to Bee who scales to Taka Sasuke who scales to Hebi Sasuke. So that doesn't help things either.

This is just not how it works. We’re not gonna scale no Sharingan War Arc Sasuke to 3T FKS Sasuke without some actual evidence from the manga suggesting that they’re comparable. This is basically you just eyeballing Sasuke’s amps and going “yeah he should probably scale here now”.

If you're gonna be that strict that's fine, but there's no way that the 3T amp is more than 13x, so at bare minimum Base WA Sasuke should downscale to Baseline 7-A, if not 7-A+.

 

[LordTracer]

Where does the 7-A even come from then? There's no 7-A calc afaik.

Literally on the verse page:

Mountain level characters such as Hebi Sasuke scale to 139.2 megatons via being 1/10th as powerful as CS2 Sasuke.

3T Hebi Sasuke scales to Itachi who scales to Kisame who scales to Bee who scales to Taka Sasuke who scales to Hebi Sasuke. So that doesn't help things either.

That’s not entirely accurate to how the scaling chain works, but it’s completely irrelevant to this thread so I’m not gonna get into it.

so at bare minimum Base WA Sasuke should downscale to Baseline 7-A, if not 7-A+.

Or he just scales above his prior no Sharingan base form (which is arguably 7-B+) and doesn’t downscale from his 3T FKS self for literally no reason.

 

[Nierre]

which is arguably 7-B+

 

[LordTracer]

Hebi Sasuke’s 7-A scaling comes from feats he performed while the Sharingan was active. Taka Sasuke’s downscaling would logically be with the Sharingan as well (and without it, he was shown as significantly inferior to B, a baseline 7-A). Afaik Sasuke’s best showing without the Sharingan is clashing with base Naruto in the Five Kage Summit, and Naruto’s 7-B+.

 

[Nierre]

Wow that's crazy consistent lol, alright 7-B+ makes even more sense

 

[Nierre]

Their AP and his Speed for some reason doesn't have the Juubi Spawns Key. So that needs to be added (Calling them Fission Beings is much cooler though...).
Their AP for this key is Unknown, but they actually damaged Sai and also held their own against Base Sasuke and Naruto so they should be 7-B+ in AP.Their Speed should also scale to Naruto and Sasuke, so it should be MHS+Striking should scale to City ClassLifting should scale to Class M due to scaling to Naruto and SasukeDurability would scale to Sakura (as it does), but it's outdated so it'll be changed to 7-B+.

Okay I updated the Juubi Spawns Key with the new values.

 

[ssgengar]

Looks fine to me

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Literally on the verse page:

Isn't CM2 accepted as a 10x boost from CM1? So wouldn't it be CM1 Sasuke who scales to that, as is even noted on his profile?

Or he just scales above his prior no Sharingan base form (which is arguably 7-B+) and doesn’t downscale from his 3T FKS self for literally no reason.

Because the 3T Sharingan amp is not that massive. Base Naruto and Base Sasuke are relative, and SM Naruto and MS Sasuke are relative (as soon as that's added), meaning the 3T amp is less than a SM amp, which got its 10x multiplier removed for being too high for the feats performed compared to base. Letalone 14x.