John Constantine Feats Upgrade (Part 2)

[Godzilladude123]

Hey guys. There were some users who suggested that I add more of John Constantine's feats in my previous upgrade thread but an admin suggested that I should gather more support on this. There were also a number of respect threads about the character so I decided to make a little research, gather up some of his best feats, dig up some scans and post it here, in the hopes that the character's profile can be upgraded further and more accurately.

Attack Potency


Used a spell strong enough to hurt a building sized Blight, the embodiment of petty evil in the DCU


Killed the god demon Nergal with magic (who's a reality warper in at least a city level)


Rippled a spell strong enough to destroy London (city level)


Durability


Although he didn't actually fought Darkseid head on, he used a powerful defensive magic to protect himself and a bunch of people from Darkseid (This was Darkseid during the Earth 2 storyline, seen here where he is strong enough to pierce his hand in between universes.


survived being swatted by Darkseid and falling from space.


Glanced off a building size explosion that caught him off guard


Speed


Tagged the god of vampires Andrew Bennett who tried to attack him, making him at least superhuman or maybe even subsonic+ in reaction speed


Range


Created a universe-size illusion to trick Darkseid


Other powers and abilities



Used telekenisis to tag another vampire


"Twist time and space"


Time travel

• His Precognition skill has also been not listed for some reason. There was a time wehre he once predicted the date of Reagan's assassination attempt, and even foreseen the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Intelligence

• I plan on including part where he outwitted Batman (in Search of Swamp Thing) and Darkseid into his list of feats. I also tried adding how John tricked a list of gods, biblical entities like Archangel Gabriel and the Beast of the Bible into his list of feats as well.

Others

• Also, I just wanna say that John Constantine is NOT a telepath. I remember him saying that he's no telepath in the Constantine series but I kinda forgot what issue that was and I have no scans. But that's kind of the reason why he enlists the help of telepaths such as Mercury and Chris because he's not one.

If there's any questions or if you feel that there has been some mistakes or exaggeration, just let me know

ALSO, please do not add any of your feats here. The focus of the thread is only on the feats that I have listed. I recently found out that it was a no no for some users to post and repost feats in someone's content revision thread. If you want to add feats in JC's profile you can make your own separate thread.

 

[Cropfist]

Looks alright.

 

[Promestein]

You're not saying what his AP should be specifically. The same goes for everything else, really. You need straight feats - and, when it comes to DC, powerscaling is iffy, so we can't really scale him to someone who scales to someone unless it's very consistent.

 

[Godzilladude123]

You're not saying what his AP should be specifically. The same goes for everything else, really. You need straight feats - and, when it comes to DC, powerscaling is iffy, so we can't really scale him to someone who scales to someone unless it's very consistent.

I see. I'll try to specify the Attack Potency. I didn't know I was actually power scaling him I was trying to list his interactions with some DC individuals. But I'll specify them nonetheless.

 

[Promestein]

Okay, for one; does Nergal have universal reality warping feats? Is it consistent for Constantine to be on that level? If no to either, Nergal's not universal and neither is John.

 

[Godzilladude123]

Okay, for one; does Nergal have universal reality warping feats? Is it consistent for Constantine to be on that level? If no to either, Nergal's not universal and neither is John.

Seems so. I got this feat from another user in my previous thread and I myself is also a bit skeptical. But he is a reality warper as stated in his wiki and there were also a number of times where he created chaos both in Earth and in Hell with his demonic powers in many of his appearances.

Though I might have used the wrong words with "Universe level". I don't know what tiers are reality warpers.

 

[Elgb333]

I like these feats. To be honest I myself think that John Constantine's page is very outdated, and everytime I update it I'm always being shot down. Most of the infos in the John Constantine page were from previous JLD issues three years before which makes it sad that no one's watching over it.


I agree with the upgrades, but I'm just curious how come you didn't list the time where John Constantine's killed Dr. Fate and took on the Helmet? Multiple Galaxy or Univere level maybe? XD

 

[Promestein]

Reality Warpers vastly differ in scale.

 

[Godzilladude123]

Reality Warpers vastly differ in scale.

I know that it's just most of Nergal's feats - and pretty much any character in Hellblazer - comes more from "show don't tell". Hellblazer stated that Nergal is powerful enough to create chaos in the whole mortal realm but there are no actual feats to support this. The best I've seen in him was when he engulfed the City of London in Original Sins.

 

[Aparajita]

What about when he bound the Spectre with magic to sell him back to the Presence for power?

 

[Elgb333]

Reality Warpers vastly differ in scale.

I know that it's just most of Nergal's feats - and pretty much any character in Hellblazer - comes more from "show don't tell". Hellblazer stated that Nergal is powerful enough to create chaos in the whole mortal realm but there are no actual feats to support this. The best I've seen in him was when he engulfed the City of London in Original Sins.

That's not even taking into account that Nergal survived being killed by the whole Heavenly Host, and destroyed twice by the First and still came back. Nergal also destroyed Northfulthing, who is a reality-warping elemental. and with the scans I provided above John can even be universal in New 52.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Universal Constantine is nonsense.

Everything else seems mostly okay.

Edit: And his Durability Feats are only with magic, by the way.

Anyways, Constantine isn't actually that strong. His power comes from trickery, prep and his absurd intellect. He might be the smartest human in all of DC Comics. He defeated The Word and freaking GOD SWAMP THING through prep, when even Batman himself admitted that even regular Swamp Thing is someone he cannot stop ever.

 

[Godzilladude123]

Yeah. I knew there was something fishy when I added that feat. Since alot of you guys aren't buying to it too, it's better to consider that feat null.


Also, to those who added more of John Constantine's feats. I already stated above that we'll be focusing on those feats I have posted. PLEASE if you want to add your own feats make your own thread.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And you cannot use his Prep Time feats for AP. John Constantine wins through plot and intellect, not power. People like The Archangel Gabriel, The First of the Fallen and Kali as they appear in Hellblazer have virtually no feats and are only implied powerful. Even The Presence in it is treated as someone John can outsmart, which is so contradictory it's not even funny.

 

[Godzilladude123]

And you cannot use his Prep Time feats for AP. John Constantine wins through plot and intellect, not power. People like The Archangel Gabriel, The First of the Fallen and Kali as they appear in Hellblazer have virtually no feats and are only implied powerful. Even The Presence in it is treated as someone John can outsmart, which is so contradictory it's not even funny.

Oh I wasn;t planning on adding those in the AP. I know that he didn't defeat Garbiel and Darkseid using power but with prep. I was planning to put them in the Intelligence section where the best of his preps feats can be mentioned.

 

[Aparajita]

It... does scale to AP. We scale other characters via prep? Why not John?

"blah physically, blah with standard magic, blah with prep" ?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Because his prep feats are not offensive. It's trickery, outsmarting, depowering. John never solves problems by magic blasts.

 

[Godzilladude123]

Yes. It's the way that he uses magic why he overcomes his foes, not with power. Kinda like how Batman has specialized gadgets created by writers to defeat the "villain of the day", John also does the same but with spells.

 

[Elgb333]

Universal Constantine is nonsense.

Everything else seems mostly okay.

Edit: And his Durability Feats are only with magic, by the way.

Anyways, Constantine isn't actually that strong. His power comes from trickery, prep and his absurd intellect. He might be the smartest human in all of DC Comics. He defeated The Word and freaking GOD SWAMP THING through prep, when even Batman himself admitted that even regular Swamp Thing is someone he cannot stop ever.

What about my scans above? Those have to account for something.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew Schroeder

What, if any, statistics changes do you suggest based on the above?

Regardless, any upgrades must be separated into different keys for Constantine's Vertigo and Post-Flashpoint incarnations.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

AP: 9-C Physically, up to 7-B through Magic.

Durability: 9-C Physically, at least 8-C through Magic.

This is for Post-Flashpoint. Pre-Flashpoint / Vertigo was far less of a battlemage / hero character and doesn't scale to this feats wise. He does, however, far outclass literally any other character I've seen through Prep, going as far as defeating At least 2-A / High 2-A people.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Matt

Based on the scans above, this seems reasonable.

Well I sort of doubt this would go through, but should we make a separate tab for prep as we did on Rick Sanchez's page?

 

[Godzilladude123]

I agree with some of it Matt. But what about John's durability feats against Darkseid and the First in terms of magic. Shouldn't they be at most 3-A?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The First has no destructive feats or relevant statements as far as I read. 3-A would obviously an outlier.

 

[Godzilladude123]

I' have to slightly disagree with that. We don't see the First destroying a universe or soemthing, but he can warp reality in an almost universal as seen in Rake at the Gates of Hell. And what John's Darkseid feat?

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew

Okay. That seems fine.

What is the proof for being At least 2-A with preparations?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It has to do with Swamp Thing, of which I am currently preparing a Respect / Revision Thread for.

It not really AP, but more like Plot Specific Powerr Removal. But it's evidence that John is capable of finding / developing tools and spells that depower beings on those levels..

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm going to read Rake at the Gates of Hell, if the Universal RW is legit, then John's "God-Killing Sword" may actually mean something.

 

[Godzilladude123]

@Matt

Sure Matt.

However, after some time thinking about it. Yeah I think it would be too much for John to have Universal durability. Building level is at least what John's powers has been consistently.

But is it okay if we at least mention his durability feat agaisnt the First and Darkseid? Like using the tier Building level but could be much higher to also incorporate those said feats?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Read Marvel and DC Powerscaling page. If we were to incorporate every single feat and scaling for Marvel and DC Characters, we'd have 1-A Captain America.

This is not hyperbole. It is literally something that you can do if you abuse powerscaling.*

 

[Godzilladude123]

Ah okay. I see now.

EDIT: But what about John surviving a fall to the Earth from space (using magic off course). Normally what tier is that in terms of durability?

 

[fandom_123chaseyoung]

The feats look good and I agree with the proposed revion of Matthew.


It's nice that John Constantine's feats in the new comics such as Constantine and Rebirth are being inputed.

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps "Unknown with preparation" would be most appropriate, as he relies on hax and Plot Induced Stupidity power-scaling?

 

[Prime1130]

Where was it stated that John foresaw the events of COIE?

 

[Antvasima]

This is a very old thread. We should probably close it.