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Jack Noir vs Undyne the Undying

Promestein

Promestein

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Fully Prototyped Jack vs Undyne the Undying.

As Jack is a multiversal threat, Undyne starts the battle transformed. Jack decides to humor her and give her a fair duel before destroying everything.

No Red Miles. Both are in character besides this.
 
I'm assuming that their speeds are roughly the same as there is no current canon speed of UtU. that said I say Undyne has a bit of an advantage due to the sheer volume of energy speers, the grean state preventing jack's mobility, and him having only one arm with which to guard
 
Eh, Jack's probably a fair bit faster due to his speed feat being travelling between universes in three years, while Undyne's scaled off of Chara, who's only Relativistic+.

I really doubt Jack needs more than one arm to guard. He may be able to use his intangibility to dodge them, or possibly just teleport them away. And that's assuming he can't just work around the green state via teleportation or spatial manipulation.
 
Jack is severely lacking in versatility (I mean, he technically has it, but he's too murder crazy to figure out how to use his powers for much more than stabbing things, better), but Undyne's chivalry is going to be incredibly dangerous to her, here. Granted, she should have a major advantage in skill, but I'm genuinely unsure of the outcome of this fight.
 
I think frankly Jack. WHile he is far from the smartest character in homestuck, even he has learnt how to bend space time to reindirect spears. As long as he doesn't freak out for being frozen he could potentially win.

Also, I don't see how Undyne can get past Red Miles if Jack gets pissed off
 
Xantospoc said:
Also, I don't see how Undyne can get past Red Miles if Jack gets pissed off
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Seeing as she's not an abstract entity like Asriel or Chara, she couldn't. That's why the OP says no Red Miles.
 
Can't Jack just eventually win via him having the superior speed? He also from the looks of his profile has more hax than Undone.
 
My bad, I hadn't seen that. Stll I remember Jack had learnt how to use his space manipulation to send back projectiles to his enemies.

It was one of the few times he acted smart
 
@Pika

Jack has way more hax. He's just not always great at using them.

@Xant

Yeah, he has. However, I'm still not quite sure if he could get around Green Mode. Remember, Aradia was able to hold him in place (though she had to use all of her power and concentration), and UtU is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than Aradia. Granted, Undyne wouldn't exploit this to its full potential, but Jack has a tendency to flip out when under pressure, despite how calm he can be without it.
 
Jack would definately have a lot of problems due to Green mode for what Aza said as well as that Jack only has one arm which becomes a pretty big deal when you take into acount that Undynes spears will be coming from various directions at once with tons of diferent rythems, speeds and special properties. Jack could still win, but it is far from stomp. also I'm not going to use this as a point as it makes Undyne way above her tier and since we're not counting red miles we definately shouldn't count this, but unless this is taking place in the same verse as someone more determined then Undyne, she would gain the MDIP (Most Determined Individual Present) benefits as in time manipulation prevention and saving and loading.
 
Well, that's assuming Undyne IS using Determination.

I feel like it could go either way. If Jack flips out enough to stop fighting smart, Undyne has an advantage, but until then, Jack is fast enough to at least keep up with her spears and possibly redirect them IF he finds a way to get out of Green Mode. Which he very likely wouldn't.

I don't know whether to be glad about making such a close fight or not.
 
You should be glad. All fights should be close fights where everyone doesn't already know the outcome the second they look at the title.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Aradia was able to hold him in place (though she had to use all of her power and concentration), and UtU is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than Aradia. Granted, Undyne wouldn't exploit this to its full potential, but Jack has a tendency to flip out when under pressure, despite how calm he can be without it.
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Didn't you tell me he could have just used his powers to escape, but didn't?

Either way, I'd give it to Jack due to vastly greater speed.
 
jack breaking out of green mode is not too likely given the fact that it kept Frisk trapped even when they were very determined to run away.
 
The Everlasting said:
Didn't you tell me he could have just used his powers to escape, but didn't?

Either way, I'd give it to Jack due to vastly greater speed.
Click to expand...
I said Jack should logically have been able to break out of time-stop using his First Guardian powers, but didn't because Jack can't use the full extent of his powers due to being incredibly uncreative.
 
Actually, how would freezing your soul freeze your body in place? That appears to not make that much sense.
 
Definition of "soul" in Undertale is not the same as the definition of "soul" in most other things. In Undertale, your soul is the culmination of your entire being. Someone who can affect your soul can pretty much affect everything about you, hence why Sans can give your soul "gravity" or Undyne can make you unable to move by turning your soul green.
 
Frisk is unable to flee from Undyne while put in green mode. while our definitions might seem bizzare, the fact remains that it still actually has that effect.
 
So what would that do to Jack's body...?

Honestly mechanics like these are just too complicated for me to understand how they work in battles.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Definition of "soul" in Undertale is not the same as the definition of "soul" in most other things. In Undertale, your soul is the culmination of your entire being. Someone who can affect your soul can pretty much affect everything about you, hence why Sans can give your soul "gravity" or Undyne can make you unable to move by turning your soul green.
Click to expand...
and it's something that you definately can't brute force out of, otherwise Chara/Frisk who both had far more soul power than any monster would be able to break out at will
 
The Everlasting said:
So what would that do to Jack's body...?
Honestly mechanics like these are just too complicated for me to understand how they work in battles.
Click to expand...
Physically? Nothing. But it would mean that he couldn't move from a single spot because his soul would be effectively stuck in place.
 
jack would be trapped in one place but would be able to turn, requireing him to block Undynes attacks instead of being able to dodge.
 
But wouldn't his body's movement be independent of his soul's immobility?

Besides, there's also the fact that Jack's massively faster.

And I don't know why, but I feel like there's some loophole to this. Like Jack doesn't actually have a soul. I'm likely wrong, but I feel like the loophole exists.
 
No. If it was, Frisk could have still run away when their soul was green.

He is, but he's not one-shotting, so this is likely still going to come into play.

I don't see why he wouldn't. In Undertale, everything that is sentient has a soul. The only reason Flowey didn't was due to being artifically created.
 
This is why I don't like discussing mechanics like this. It's like if Soul Manipulation would be effective on Digimon or not since they're data.

Not saying he will, but I'm still giving it to Jack. I mean, the moment he can move, Undyne's done for if he decides to attack immediately, which he probably will as he'd realize Undyne as a serious threat if she hit him beforehand.

Is Jack from Undertale? If he isn't, then the answer can be no. It's probably just me spouting nonsense, but it would be pretty funny if we had this much discussion over it only to learn Jack doesn't have a soul.
 
unless it is explisitly stated that jack and the things he was prototyped with don't have souls there is no reason to believe that he doesn't
 
Well, Jack's not technically data like Digimon are. He's part of the game, but the game isn't data. It's real.

I'm not seeing Undyne going down that easily. I'm still on the fence about who I'm giving it to, but Undyne did take numerous hits from an at least low 2-C character, so I'm not seeing her going down s easily against Jack.

The answer CAN be no, but that doesn't mean it is. This is also like arguing that if its not specified that a character can use certain powers, then they can't use them in a battle, because we don't know if it would work outside their verse. It's like making a Goku vs Thor battle in which Goku can't use ki or powers because we don't know if it would work in the Marvel Universe.
 
That was a comparison, not saying Jack is data. It was mainly meant to say that I question how stuff like this works with the mechanics of verses. Maybe a better example would have been Beerus negating ki or energy attacks in general. We don't know because ki is a unique thing.

Do you even know how many times Jack can strike her in just one second? I'm pretty sure it's enough to take Undyne down.

That was mainly just me going out of it for a minute, I doubt Jack doesn't have a soul, but it would be pretty funny to learn that we conversed about this so much only to learn it doesn't matter.
 
Pretty much, yeah. Though didn't Beerus just say "energy"?

A lot, but it's unlikely to accumulate like that. Jack's casual stabs and swings aren't going to be enough to put Undyne down immediately, especially with the nature of Determination. Undyne, like all monsters, isn't really a physical being. Jack's going to need to very clearly best her in combat, which will drop her Determination, and eventually kill her.

That would make Jack the Squidward of Homestuck.
 
I think he did, though I don't 100% remember.

Yes, but my point is that Jack doesn't instantly do universal+ damage with every casual hit. He has to really tap into his First Guardian power. While he's going to hurt Undyne, he'd need to be at absolute full power while blitzing her to take her down so easily, if her fight with Chara is any indication.

Eeeeeeeexactly.
 
Well, it's a stomp now that Undyne's probably 2-B, so this battle is a lot less inconclusive.
 
Given Undyne's now Mutiversal and Jack's durability being Multiversal+ is a possibility, not a probability, I've got to go with her.
 
ThePerpetual said:
Given Undyne's now Mutiversal and Jack's durability being Multiversal+ is a possibility, not a probability, I've got to go with her.
Click to expand...
Plus Noire is a meanie poop head
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
@Pika
Jack has way more hax. He's just not always great at using them.

@Xant

Yeah, he has. However, I'm still not quite sure if he could get around Green Mode. Remember, Aradia was able to hold him in place (though she had to use all of her power and concentration), and UtU is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more powerful than Aradia. Granted, Undyne wouldn't exploit this to its full potential, but Jack has a tendency to flip out when under pressure, despite how calm he can be without it.
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing this. Aradia was using time manipulation magic while Undyne just uses soul hacks. Frisk can still attack and move around a spear while in green form, so it's not absolutely limiting. I think he could still teleport.


After reading past all of Jack's major feats in the storyline, UD could kill him with attacking the soul directly, but Jack is too stronk and fast in the end. And even when jack isn't using the miles to give undyne a "fair duel", you're high if you think he isn't going to bust out his green miles when things start getting rough for him. Oh, and as for LV, Jack is going to have a really, really high level of killing intent. He blew up a couple of universes and spends his time flying around to murder random people.
 
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