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Itachi vs Pernida

not this again

that makes no sense. genjutsu is just treated as Telepathy in vs topics just about everywhere. if you wanna follow that route, we'd have to make Flash completely useless against non DC characters (speedforce is confirmed to only exist in DC), Star wars characters unable to use the force on non star wars characters because they don't have midi chlorians

and it'd also make naruto characters arguably immune to other verse's mental attacks, since their brains apparently work through chakra networks, which don't exist elsewhere.

this is just off the top of my head...trying to follow this sort of literal mindset would cause a load of problems. i'm sure there's a ton of characters out there besides the ones i mentioned who'd be either rendered useless or unstopablle without verse equalization
 
Pietro Maximoff said:
Beacuse he doesn't have Charka(Unless you equalize enegy) that's why......
Verse equalization is on by default, otherwise half the vs threads wont work because of different verse mechanics
 
Chakra, reiatsu,Ki and all thing like that is based on same concept in anime.

its japanese/chinese definition of "chi", the source of life and energy. which also give power to do superhuman things to some people belief.

each author adds its own stuffs to differ it a bit but all comes from the same source.

for people of diferent anime to fight, you have to follow same rules no? Naruto says its not possible to keep life without chakra. its basic law of naruto..needs to be there when fighting other anime people


but Itachi not need genjutsu to win anyway. i think he's fast sufficient to just beat pernida with susano and Totsuka blade.

 
genjutsu would not work. it was said to lille when people fight in bleach they don't use there eyes. that's how ichigo could see ginjo when he got his eyes cut out.

if you read this people with reiatsu in a fight they stop using there eyes so no genjutsu.

N009
 
maybe he could indeed

but he has no idea who Itachi is or that he has to avoid looking at him. without prior knowledge he's not just gonna immediately close his eyes before even acknowledging what the opponent looks like. immediately at the very start of the fight, he's most likely gonna take a look at Itachi and fall in genjutsu..similar to what happened to deidara, Orochimaru, and naruto when Itachi gave him the crow. it's very hard to beat Itachi without knowledge because of this...(unless you have anti-mental hax)

Kabuto went as far as fighting the entire time with his eyes closed to avoid losing to genjutsu. Itachi is just that dangerous. problem is, Kabuto knew that, Pernida doesn't.

Plus even if we ban regular genjutsu , as i explained, because of Pernida's method of defense and attack, he's very exposed to Izanami. if Itachi sees no other way out he's gonna use Izanami.
 
Hiei312 no pernida will not look at itachi. that's how people in bleach they do it to every one. they do it so must they don't even know that there doing it. if you read that page I put lille did not even know that he was not looking with his eyes.

1 yes pernida will not know itachi powers

2 pernida will not look with his eyes. why people with reiatsu does that to every one.

3 when pernida is fighting itachi he will not see his eyes just his energy in his body.

4 again your right pernida will not know that he must not look at itachi eyes. but lucky for him he will not because all people in bleach don't fight with there eyes.

5 yes even at the start of the fight. when lille shot shunsui he was not using his eyes and that's when he frist seen shunsui. and lille did not even know he was doing it. do when pernida starts the fight he will not be looking.

if you want to know more at the eye thing read bleach chapter 645.
 
anyway even if pernida looks at itachi genjutsu will not work.

why

1 in bleach people don't have real body there made of energy just in the shape of a man or what ever so the eyes are not real eyes.

2 pernida can shade his body and his eyes.

3 he does not have a brain. you need one for genjutsu
 
are you trying to say bleach characters don't use their eyes at all, ever? that's ridiculous. that very page you showed shuinsuke says they rely on BOTH vision and reikaku for sight. Reikaku starts to take presedence as they concentrate in the fight. that's all shunsuke said


at the very start, when Itachi and pernida are just standing there, he's using his vision to see. and that's when he's most vulnerable, because Itachi loves to cheapshot people right off the bat before they even know the fight started proper. Pernida isn't gonna randomly decide to not look at Itachi. that's something that happens subconsciously in the midst of a heated battle.

they do have "bodies". they have nervous systems, all 5 senses, etc. they function exactly like any normal human does. although they're technically souls.

"While Shinigami can be injured and killed like regular humans, it takes considerably greater injuries to kill a Shinigami (...)"
 
no they don't have normal bodys there bodys are made of Reishi.

read this its from soul reaper wiki

Shinigami are unearthly beings living in a world ruled by a different logic than the World of the Living. They possess high Reiryoku and a body of Reishi. They are invisible to those without spiritual powers.

you see they have bodys made Reishi

if you want to know what reishi is read this

Reishi composes the spiritual bodies of Hollows and Shinigami, and the two planes of existence, Hueco Mundo and Soul Society in their entirety.[1][2] Reishi is invisible to mortals, with the exception of spiritually aware ones such as the Quincy;[3] they can, however, still interact with normal matter and produce physical effects.[4] It is noted, however, that Reishi and atoms do not mix well.

and did you not read shunsui says this

back there you mistook my reiatsu for me.
 
if you read it he said. your subconscious begin to stop seeing with your eyes. you do know what that means right they don't use there eyes. that how tosen could fight.

so

1 there body are made of Reishi

2 they don't use there eyes that's why captain tosen could fight bland and ichigo could fight when he got his eyes cut out.

if you think im lying ok go here it will tell you every think http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/
 
yes, i realise you subconsciously stop seeing with your eyes as you concentrate in the fight. if it got that far genjutsu would stop being efficient. that's not my point.


they're not gonna start already engaged in mortal combat you know? they'll start at a fair distance form one another just standing there. Pernida will obv take at least a look at his opponent before the fight starts proper. everyone does that. no character just starts fighting right off the bat without even acknowledging who the opponent is.


the thing about having spiritual bodies fall in verse equalization again. by that logic no one outside bleach verse would be able to fight bleach characters as they can't see or interact with them since reishi and spiritual awareness don't exist in most universes.
 
you don't understand what i'm saying


"when they fight" doesn't matter. the most likely outcome is pernida will take a look at Itachi at the very start, before they even started fighting, and at that time he'll immediately fall in genjutsu without realizing it. in normal conditions bleach characters still rely on vision to see, as Shunsuke himself said. its only when they're totally concentrated in a fight that Reikaku takes over

http://********.me/manga/naruto/v39/c359/16.html
 
Hiei312 your right most worlds cant see them soul people just skip that one.

and I get what your saying. you mean itachi will use his power before the fight gets going. but that will not work they use it from the start if you read the bottom bit of that page lille did not even know he was doing it. and when he did it. it was before the fight even started.

but even if itachi can use that power to trap pernida. itachi will still die.

1 pernida nerves will be still on the ground and itachi will work in to it. he will not know his powers.

2 pernida can use the powers of the person he is fighting. just think of that. pernida with itachi power

3 even if pernida dies his nerves can still kill you. and like everyone in Naruto if he killes pernida he will go close to see the body and they he will die.

so its

1 pernida wins or 2 draw pernida powers work after death.
 
Itachi not get caught by surprise. he faster or equal and has sharingan perception. sasuke even see invisible microscopic bombs with sharingan...itachi better reaction than Sasuke... will see the nerves and dodge.
 
ok if that's true why did lille have his reiasu eyes up. when he did his first shot at shunsui before the fight even started.

and in truth its does not matter.

1 you need brain waves for it to work there made of Reishi. you do know people in bleach are made from the same things the houses are made of because even the houses are made of Reishi. so you saying itachi can trap anyone from bleach is like saying he can trap a house.

2 if it did trap pernida put up his Reishi eyes.
 
Once he gets trapped he can no longer do anything in the real world. he's lost in his own illusionary world.


i know people in soul society are made from energy, that's how Uryuu beat Mayuri in fact. but they clearly follow different rules. houses in bleach aren't sentient. people while being made out of energy still have functional organs, senses, and in general work exactly as a living person would

plus we've seen bleach chars being affected by mental attacks and illusions before. with verses equalized all forms of mental attacks and illusions should follow the same rule, so they'd all work.

here's some more examples

http://********.me/manga/naruto/v38/c345.1/9.html


http://********.me/manga/naruto/v44/c403/2.html

http://********.me/manga/naruto/v44/c403/3.html


http://********.me/manga/naruto/v29/c258/5.html

http://********.me/manga/naruto/v29/c259/7.html


Itachi has a really long history of cheapshotting people with genjutsu before they actually start fighting. its not exactly the fairest thing ever, but its how he fights...
 
Saitamax your right itachi is fast but he cant doge. the nerves will be all over the ground. lol he cant doge the ground if he take 1 step on the floor he dead.

pernida to hax

itachi touch the ground he dead

itachi touch pernida he dead

if he blast pernida it will make a army

theres not much him can do.

and pernida get the skill and brains of the person he fights.

so pernida will be just as smarts as him and he will get his speed and powers.
 
now you're just starting to get into no limits fallacy territory


you think pernida's range he can affect with his nerves is infinite? Itachi literally can't touch the world or he'd die?


and pernida will get Beerus speed and powers if he fights him? >_>
 
Hiei312 ok this is how the fight will go

pernida stands there looks at itachi. itachi traps pernida in some kind of mad world. itachi walks over to finish him . itachi will die in 2 ways you can pick

1 pernida always put the nerves in the ground so when itachi walks on it he dead and yes the nerves still work. because they work even if you kill pernida.

2 some how itachi can see all the nerves in the ground he does a speed jump and goes to finish him. when itach touch pernida he will die.

when itachi dead pernida is free and walks away.

but in truth soul crush would end this fight in 1 second.

and that's a story if he did trap him you see it does not matter.

and even if pernida did get trap he can shade his body and eyes.

sorry itachi strong but he will lose. its just the nerves. I will tell you this if pernida did not have that power I would say itachi would win as well.
 
Jesus, this topic is huge

i considered retracting my vote because of the genjutsu debate, but so far honestly i think Itachi has had better arguments.

so i'll keep my vote on Itachi. seems like a closer fight than i thought though.
 
ok 1 he cant nerves don't cover the planet but the battle grounds yes

here some of pernida power

Evolution Governance: Pernida governs progression and advancement through evolution, the enhancement of oneself and others via accelerated evolution, which it displays with the various adaptations it employs in order to survive combat situations

Ôù¥Organic Evolution: Pernida can evolve by absorbing and consuming organic biomass and gaining the abilities, traits, and attributes of the being the biomass was from.

Ôù¥Adaptive Replication: Pernida can evolve by absorbing information from objects it touches with its nerves. In doing so, it evolved itself to the power level of Kenpachi Zaraki and replicated the layer-shedding ability of the Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō created by Mayuri Kurotsuchi's Modified Bankai.

Ôù¥Anatomy Manipulation: Pernida has complete control over its anatomy, which it can freely alter and manipulate. It can grow additional appendages, remove sections or otherwise manipulate its parts.

Reconstitution: Should its body be destroyed, Pernida can completely reform and reconstruct itself in a short period of time
 
Dbzgoku20 said:
Hiei312 ok this is how the fight will go
pernida stands there looks at itachi. itachi traps pernida in some kind of mad world. itachi walks over to finish him . itachi will die in 2 ways you can pick

1 pernida always put the nerves in the ground so when itachi walks on it he dead and yes the nerves still work. because they work even if you kill pernida.

2 some how itachi can see all the nerves in the ground he does a speed jump and goes to finish him. when itach touch pernida he will die.

when itachi dead pernida is free and walks away.

but in truth soul crush would end this fight in 1 second.

and that's a story if he did trap him you see it does not matter.

and even if pernida did get trap he can shade his body and eyes.

sorry itachi strong but he will lose. its just the nerves. I will tell you this if pernida did not have that power I would say itachi would win as well.


you're not getting it still


the point is, Itachi is going to cheapshot pernida with genjutsu literally before ANYTHING happens. when trapped pernidas will be completely helpless in the real world. he can't control his nerves or split anymore. he can't do anything whatsoever.

that's just the way Itachi usually fights. it's also why powerful people like sage Kabuto went out of their way to fight the entire time with the eyes closed to avoid getting cheapshotted by Itachi. without knowledge though, it's gonna happen.


also even if the fight somehow goes beyond that, as i said before, pernidas having a bunch of nerves exposed everywhere makes him extremely vulnerable to Izanami. if Itachi finds no other way to win he's gonna try Izanami (like he did against kabuto after seeing there was no other option).
 
yes pernida can control his nerves if he trap.

1 he does not need to control the nerves him self. that why they work when he dead.

2 itachi does any power on him he will get a evolution and it will not work. like pernida body got hit by some think he could not move even one bit but his body evolution and it broke.

its is the power hax does not work on pernida

Evolution Governance: Pernida governs progression and advancement through evolution, the enhancement of oneself and others via accelerated evolution, which it displays with the various adaptations it employs in order to survive combat situations
 
you guys do know itachi is not faster then pernida there speed is the same

pernida and itachi speed is Massively Hypersonic
 
Itachi extremely intelligent


he'll see nerves with sharingan perception. so not get close to them. after trapped with genjutsu, itachi likely just attack from distance with Totsuka to seal him.
 
Saitamax that will not work read pernidas powers

Evolution Governance: Pernida governs progression and advancement through evolution, the enhancement of oneself and others via accelerated evolution, which it displays with the various adaptations it employs in order to survive combat situations

Ôù¥Organic Evolution: Pernida can evolve by absorbing and consuming organic biomass and gaining the abilities, traits, and attributes of the being the biomass was from.

Ôù¥Adaptive Replication: Pernida can evolve by absorbing information from objects it touches with its nerves. In doing so, it evolved itself to the power level of Kenpachi Zaraki and replicated the layer-shedding ability of the Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō created by Mayuri Kurotsuchi's Modified Bankai.

Ôù¥Anatomy Manipulation: Pernida has complete control over its anatomy, which it can freely alter and manipulate. It can grow additional appendages, remove sections or otherwise manipulate its parts.

Reconstitution: Should its body be destroyed, Pernida can completely reform and reconstruct itself in a short period of time
 
Dbzgoku20 said:
so if itachi does that power he will just brake out.


not really


this is pernida's ability you're refering to

"Adaptive replication: Pernida can evolve by absorbing information from objects it touches with its nerves. in doing so, it evolved itself to the power level of Kenpachi Zaraki and replicated the layer-shedding ability of the Konjiki Ashisogi Jizô created by Mayuri Kurotsuchi"

its gained from "touching objects". genjutsu is a mental attack.he can't do anything about that
 
i know pernida powers, i read bleach

Totsuka blade seal souls. pernida not have anything that protect from that. also works after 1 hit. pernida needs to get hit to adapt even, so already sealed anyway
 
yes that's if he want itachi powers.

this one he does not need to touch you use anypower on him it will just work that's how he broke out of all the things mayuri did to him. in the end pernida kill him self by getting a kill power.

Evolution Governance: Pernida governs progression and advancement through evolution, the enhancement of oneself and others via accelerated evolution, which it displays with the various adaptations it employs in order to survive combat situations

this one will happen if he need to survive this one will work on that power.
 
"evolution governance" is the name of pernida's conglomerate of body altering abilities he employs to survive combat. adaptive rpelication is one of them, the others are described in his page also.

he doesn't have anything against mental attacks.
 
Saitamax pernida can destroy Totsuka blade.

It can also send its nerves into inorganic objects in order to control and shape them, which Pernida usually does by creating giant arms and hands out of the ground and nearby buildings to attack its opponents with. In addition, if one of its fingers is severed, Pernida can have it use The Compulsory remotely, which involves an eye opening on the knuckle of the finger before attacking the target.

mayuri did that did his best to seal pernida in a monster. lol pernida proke out and had all the power of the monster that seal him.

and guy soul crush that will end the fight.
 
Totsuka blade is not an object, it's pure chakra (energy). he can't do anything to it.


i also have my doubts whether pernida can even perceive the attack, coinsidering it seems to be absurdly fast both times we saw it being used.


here's examples of totsuka being used.

http://********.me/manga/naruto/v43/c392/13.html

http://********.me/manga/naruto/v43/c392/14.html


http://********.me/manga/naruto/v58/c551/15.html

http://********.me/manga/naruto/v58/c552/1.html
 
o if its made of chakra energy. it will not work energy attack don't work on them it will make them stronger. quinces can take that energy and use it as power.
 
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