Itachi(alive) vs Misogi

[SpookyShadow]

He meant early Kabuto's genjutsu, which mindhaxed many shinobi during Chuunin Exams. And Itachi is, hilariously more powerful than that.

 

[Rocker1189]

err no I am talking about Kakashi who resisted Kabuto's genjutsu without sharingan and then with sharingan still got genjutsued by Itachi.

 

[Raito_Utopia]

@Fire He knew about her oxygen manipulation so he erased time and KO her before she killed him more times.On the other hand, he doesn't have any information about itachi, doesn't know about Tsukuyomi, Totsuka Blade ... There is no 100% guarantee he will erase the time and book maker as you said. Misogi also often let his opponent take action first to consider the ability of the enemy

 

[Rocker1189]

Also genjutsu is Perception Manipulation not Mind Manipulation, it's an important difference.

Its both. and it depends on the genjutsu. tsukuyomi is definitely mind manipulation for example.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Fire
He knew about her oxygen manipulation so he erased time and KO her before she killed him more times.On the other hand, he doesn't have any information about itachi, doesn't know about Tsukuyomi, Totsuka Blade ... There is no 100% guarantee he will erase the time and book maker as you said. Misogi also often let his opponent take action first to consider the ability of the enemy

That's wrong. He didn't do that because of her ability to oxygen people. He can just erase abilities. The only reason he even bothered checking her ability is to see whether she would be a good match against Ajimu. He doesn't need that against Itachi.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Also genjutsu is Perception Manipulation not Mind Manipulation, it's an important difference.

Its both. and it depends on the genjutsu. tsukuyomi is definitely mind manipulation for example.

Yes, but the one he did against Kakashi is the one that wouldn't work. It's just trauma which can get AF-d.

Not to mention i have HEAVY doubts he would be able to show Misogi something that would break him down. Considering for most of the show he literally lacks emotions and "a heart". I doubt he'd be able to break him down with illusions.

 

[Raito_Utopia]

@Fire

I never say he did it because of her ability, I'm just trying to prove to you that he's not always going to erase time in the first place , the way you say here is almost 100% he will start with it with any opponent. So you voted Misogi now ?

 

[Rocker1189]

Yes, but the one he did against Kakashi is the one that wouldn't work. It's just trauma which can get AF-d.

Not to mention i have HEAVY doubts he would be able to show Misogi something that would break him down. Considering for most of the show he literally lacks emotions and "a heart". I doubt he'd be able to break him down with illusions.

Its not "just" trauma lmfao. Dude it is on the level of, it can kill someone. And yet again, AF wont work once he is under a genjutsu, anything he tries would just happen in the genjutsu world, whcih is not real.

You literally feel everything that he does to you, you dont only see it. He can control gravity and weight. He does not have to show you something emotional. what he did to Kakashi was torture him for 72 hours in a couple of seconds. Misogi would feel the pain of being stabbed, burnt, whatever Itachi wants him to feel for the entire time. Being emotionally stunted or lacking a heart does not mean shit if you are stabbed, you would still cry in pain, sameshit with Tsukuyomi. It would absolutely work on Misogi.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean it does work like that. And the illusion didn't last for that much. The trauma lasted. Kakashi suffered so much damage from that torture that he went into a coma for several days. The same wouldn't happen as Misogi can just recover from that stuff.

Yes none of those will work on someone who stabs his own head and brain for fun.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Raito

No, but in most cases against unknown opponents he has no knowledge of, he'll most likely start with that. There is no other "likely" combo that he starts with. So this will be the most likely in character action.

 

[Rocker1189]

I mean it does work like that. And the illusion didn't last for that much. The trauma lasted. Kakashi suffered so much damage from that torture that he went into a coma for several days. The same wouldn't happen as Misogi can just recover from that stuff.
Yes none of those will work on someone who stabs his own head and brain for fun.

The illusion lasts for how long Itachi wants it to last irl. He just compresses time for it to last shorter, either way a couple of seconds is enough for totsuka blade. Thats cool but it wont matter, incap is incape, he might recover quickly but he wont recover in time for it to not be a loss. what Itachi did to Kakashi was simpy to keep him out of the fight considering he can kill people with it by literally breaking their minds, even if it does not kill Misogi his mind would be broken.

again, it does not mater that he stabbed himself for fun, Itachi would make him feel the pain of being stabbed and can likely amplify it, he can control anything in the genjutsu.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I forgot to say what can Itachi do against Misogi crushing him emotionally?

@Rocker

Yes but they can't be too long cus the longer it takes, the more chakra it needs. The usual lasts very little. Couple of seconds is enough for a totsuka blade. That's assuming he would use, you know...Susano, a completely OOC move. Yes but as i said, Kumagawa won't be out for that long as he can just erase the effects.

Ok, but again, you're assuming that showing visions of getting stabbed would work on someone who enjoys stabbing himself

 

[Rocker1189]

I forgot to say what can Itachi do against Misogi crushing him emotionally?
@Rocker

Yes but they can't be too long cus the longer it takes, the more chakra it needs. The usual lasts very little. Couple of seconds is enough for a totsuka blade. That's assuming he would use, you know...Susano, a completely OOC move. Yes but as i said, Kumagawa won't be out for that long as he can just erase the effects.

Ok, but again, you're assuming that showing visions of getting stabbed would work on someone who enjoys stabbing himself

I am assuming that the ability to control everything in that world means that he would be able to make kumagawa feel as tortured as he wants him to. This is ignoring a bunch of other things that Itachi can force him to feel besides just being stabbed.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Pretty sure itachi can't do that. He always does a specific nightmare to people. Against Sasuke killing his parents or stealing his sharingan, aganst kakashi getting stabbed. I don't think he ever showed a case of controling other people's feelings.

 

[AstralKing7]

Mannnn are people forgetting how long Sasuke was In genjutsu????

Anything longer than 20 seconds is enough for Itachi to one shot wi th Totsuka Blade

 

[Rocker1189]

Pretty sure itachi can't do that. He always does a specific nightmare to people. Against Sasuke killing his parents or stealing his sharingan, aganst kakashi getting stabbed. I don't think he ever showed a case of controling other people's feelings.

he is stated to be able to control everything in that world. For Sasuke it was the killing of parents and stuff because that is Sasuke's trauma. He also gave sasuke illusions of pulling out his eyeballs in the fight in shipudden. And showed what he saw as a good future of the village to his father.

For Kkashi it was stabbing over and over again for 72 hours(and those hours were compressed even further) just to get him down for the next few days because he does not want to kill Kakashi.

For Izumi in the novels he let her experience her entire life with him (for 1/1000000000th of a second) until she died of old age and then she died irl.

For anothr dude, he experienced some other torture i dont remember which also broke him mind and killed him irl.

Itachi can do whatever he wants in tsukuyomi, we just dont get to see him use it much because he does not get a lot of fights unfortunately and also people know not to look at his eyes, else its gg.

 

[Ogbunabali]

>Kumagawa enjoys stabbing himself

Except he doesn't. He erases the stabbing.

>Susano, a completely OOC move

Not really. Itachi's been in a handful of fights. And we don't know when exactly he unlocked his Susanoo powers. We do know, though, that he does use Susanoo vs opponents he deems serious and/or he actually wants to hurt. Case in point, didn't hesitate, and was his plan all along, to seal Orochimaru. And in his fight with Nagato.

Itachi Totsuka Blade-ing isn't really OOC.

Anyway, I'm going with Itachi. He just needs to look/point and the fight is over. He also got sealing and he'll send always send a clone first while he's hiding somewhere, as is his M.O. Even if Kumagawa erases instantly he'll erase a clone and it's only matter of time before Itachi genjutsu's him, especially since he'll know his powers then.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Og

That's not a valid argument and you know it. Even if he sends a clone, the real itachi will still be there. So he'll just screw spam both. Not to mention Misogi's negativity from so much as speaking.

>Erases the stabbing.

Not always. Against ezumachi his eye was indeed bleeding.

@Rocker

Yet none of those cases show inducing effects that would normally not give that effect on the target. Which is the case here considering kumagawa just stands still and laughs after being stabbed. And Kumagawa dying IRL would actually be a disadvantage for Itachi.

 

[Rocker1189]

He has no ESP so I doubt he would know where Itachi is, if he does use clones.

So he has only endured eye bleeding, yeah that cant compare.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He has no ESP so I doubt he would know where Itachi is, if he does use clones.
So he has only endured eye bleeding, yeah that cant compare.

Itachi will be in line of sight via SBA.

And it's not like he'll have time to do any clone shenanigans before Kumagawa erases time.

No a knife that stabbed his eye and hit the brain. A massive screw that went completley through his head etc.

 

[Ogbunabali]

@Og

That's not a valid argument and you know it. Even if he sends a clone, the real itachi will still be there. So he'll just screw spam both. Not to mention Misogi's negativity from so much as speaking.

It is a valid argument. How will Kumagawa even know where he is, or even if he erased a clone or not in the first place? He knows nothing about Itachi or Naruto's world. For all he knows, he killed a random dude.

Not to mention that this won't even happen because Kumagawa would be under Itachi's control, so it's irrelevant.

 

[Rocker1189]

Itachi will be in line of sight via SBA.

And it's not like he'll have time to do any clone shenanigans before Kumagawa erases time.

No a knife that stabbed his eye and hit the brain. A massive screw that went completley through his head etc.

You forget that ninja in line of sight create clones without the other person seeing that they have moved somewhere else and have the clones act in their place.

If he erases time instantly. Something that seems heavily contested, I dont know Misogi though so I cant say anythig abotu his character.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Itachi will be in line of sight via SBA.

No he won't be. He'll be 4km apart in Central Park, New York City. Kumagawa won't see a thing.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

We've been over this. SBA says 4km but it's still within line of sight/know the exact location of someone, so that people don't just end up aimlessly looking for people. It's not a fight at that point.

Besides, it's hard to fool someone who's in infinite speed.

 

[Ogbunabali]

They know the general location of the enemy. Pretty sure it's not exact, although the exact location won't stop Itachi from making clones, and it's definitely not line of sight.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

4km is within logical line of sight, it's just hard to make out anything. But again, for SoL characters 4km is, you know, a very....interesting amount of time. And as i said, they know who their enemy looks like, that they are fighting and where he is. It's just range not hide and seek.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Also idk how it's an argument that Itachi makes clones before Kumagawa thinks time away.

 

[Ogbunabali]

4km in Central Park, New York. Pretty important detail you seem to have missed. It's filled with trees, hills, I think people were SBA not sure about that, etc. Kumagawa won't be seeing anything.

And both are SoL, so irrelevant point.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes in central park. Trees, yes but you're assuming there is a tree like exactly in between these 2 when they could be in the road. Ppl in SBA is a thing i think, but im planning on making a thread about it soon, though that's not a problem because as i said they know their target. Even if he doesn't, still he can use screw spawn with just vizualization and time erasure doesn't need sight to work.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Google maps Central Park. He doesn't have him in line of sight, so again, irrelevant point.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Irrelevant point? Which point is made irrelevant by not line of sight?

 

[Naeblis495]

itachi will not use totsuka as a first leading attack unless he know the opponent is tought .He doesn't have knowledge here .

so he will at least use another technique to try and kill kumagawa , see it doesn't work because "all fiction" and only then he will consider busting out totsuka .

meanwhile , kumagawa used time erasure + screw spam/bookmaker as a first action at least twice even against opponents far weaker than him.

i vote kumagawa because he is more likely of busting a move that lead to an instant win , even 4 km away from itachi .

 

[AstralKing7]

Itachi genjutsus and calls it a day literally

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Isnt this dude suppose to be extremely broken?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Isnt this dude suppose to be extremely broken?

There's no such thing as "broken". Compatibility is a main in most fights. Medaka Box are known for being rather strong 3D reality warpers but they are extremely weak against 2 things in particular, and that is Mind Hax and Soul Hax.

 

[Raito_Utopia]

So, the current votes are :

Itachi : 3

Misogi : 2

 

[The_Causality]

Kumagawa FRA i guess.

 

[The_Coolest_Water_Bottle]

Kumagawa FRA.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Itachi FRA

 

[Mr._Common_Sense]

Itachi leading sets up throughout majority of his battles goes.

1. Genjutsu

2. Firestyle

3. CQC/Weapons

4. Amaterasu

5. Susano

6. Totsuka Blade

On the other hand, Kumgawa sets up throughout majority of his battles goes.

1. Time Erase/Screw Spawn

2. All Ficton/Bookmark

3.Bookmark/All Fiction.

This fight will not last long enough for Itachi to make it to his Amaterasu usage. My vote goes to Kumgawa.