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I guess my vote goes to Dimitri. Edelgard just seems to be at a massive physical disadvantage here.
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- Thread starter BoomerKuwanger1
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That's the problem, he did miss and that was after she had been wounded and worn out. Without Byleth, he's never really (canonically) come out on top in battles with her. Every post time skip Gronder Battlefield rematch, his relentless pursuit gets him killed and leaves her only wounded.Rtxthegamer said:
If we're including battalions, I'd say that this would just be a repeat of such a scenario.
In Crimson Flower, he's killed with a swing of Edelgard's axe. In Azure Moon, Edelgard dies with a single lance stab. Neither of them really have the defense to match their offense, they both have ranged options, but Edelgard has the better skillset between the two.
Additionally, she's able to get a hit off before being killed in Azure Moon with her dagger after having been worn out and beaten around enough to dispel/destroy her Hegemon form by him and Byleth. Sure, it was in the shoulder/collarbone and up close but if that had been her axe, that would have been a double kill.
He simply doesn't have the skill nor does he have the record to match up to her, really. Again, Sword of Seiros and Aymr really seal the deal here. Her healing is just flat out better with her sword, she has two crests, more than enough physical strength to kill him, plenty of speed, and wouldn't be blinded by rage like he would be.
I guess I'd have to officially cast my vote in with Edelgard.
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- Thread starter
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Kinda forgot the vote count but Edel+1
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The difference between then and now is that Dimitri isn't injured nor worn out. I'm pretty sure it would be somewhat of a repeat scenario of what happened in the holy mausoleum, when Dimitri mowed down the soldiers with no effort. The lance throw was also very quick, considering the fact that Edelgard couldn't even make an effort to dodge it. (I guess they were also somewhat injured, but thats beside the point.)
As for that dagger in azure moon, Dimitri didn't exactly have a desire to kill Edelgard anymore. He had his guard down, and wanted to spare Edelgard.
And I think that Dimitri would actually have the edge in combat skill, considering the fact that hes spent the last 5 years killing imperial soldiers, not to mention Dimitri has been fighting since early on in his life. Sure, Edelgard likely fought some battles during the timeskip, but I doubt they fought as nearly as much as Dimitri, as he was all alone.
And while Edelgard is powerful with her two crests, Dimitri is just in another league. I mean he literally snapped a sword in half by swinging it too hard when he was just a kid. Even in the game he complains that he constantly breaks his weapons due to his brute strength. Its heavily implied in the game itself that Dimitri is the strongest character (or rather student) in terms of raw power.
I will admit that Edelgard has better healing, but I doubt it would be as useful as it would be if Dimitri wasn't in a bloodlusted state, as its very unlikely that its going to be a drawn out fight.
(Side note: I don't think Edelgard actually has teleportation, its heavily implied in the game that Hubert is the one that teleports Edelgard. As seen in the cutscene where they flee the immaculate one.)
As for that dagger in azure moon, Dimitri didn't exactly have a desire to kill Edelgard anymore. He had his guard down, and wanted to spare Edelgard.
And I think that Dimitri would actually have the edge in combat skill, considering the fact that hes spent the last 5 years killing imperial soldiers, not to mention Dimitri has been fighting since early on in his life. Sure, Edelgard likely fought some battles during the timeskip, but I doubt they fought as nearly as much as Dimitri, as he was all alone.
And while Edelgard is powerful with her two crests, Dimitri is just in another league. I mean he literally snapped a sword in half by swinging it too hard when he was just a kid. Even in the game he complains that he constantly breaks his weapons due to his brute strength. Its heavily implied in the game itself that Dimitri is the strongest character (or rather student) in terms of raw power.
I will admit that Edelgard has better healing, but I doubt it would be as useful as it would be if Dimitri wasn't in a bloodlusted state, as its very unlikely that its going to be a drawn out fight.
(Side note: I don't think Edelgard actually has teleportation, its heavily implied in the game that Hubert is the one that teleports Edelgard. As seen in the cutscene where they flee the immaculate one.)
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Current Votes:
Edelgard: 4 (KobsterHope07, Schnee One, BlackMageVI, XSOULOFCINDERX)
Dimitri: 5 (AsianAntics, Rtxthegamer, Fdrybob, Ionliosite, Thatsafloridathing)
Edelgard: 4 (KobsterHope07, Schnee One, BlackMageVI, XSOULOFCINDERX)
Dimitri: 5 (AsianAntics, Rtxthegamer, Fdrybob, Ionliosite, Thatsafloridathing)
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Edelgard's healing doesn't matter since, as you yourself said, a single hit will basically decide the match. She can only heal with her sword if she manages to hit Dimitri, which probably won't happen if she's already been injured, and that's not even mentioning the fact that she much prefers to use her axe anyways. Gronder Field doesn't really compare to a 1v1; Dimitri doesn't have to deal with an entire army getting in his way this time. At the end of Azure Moon, Dimitri was trying to spare Edelgard, and his guard was down. Even then, he avoided a fatal wound and instantly killed her when she threw her dagger at him. All in all, the evidence points to Dimitri having the advantage in strength, speed, skill, and battle experience.
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Wait…how does a single hit decided the match, don't both combatant scales to the same feat, disregarding any stats amps they may have.
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Edelgard healing with Sword of Seiros is passive, she doesn't have to hit Dimitri to heal, she just stand to gain more by hitting him. And this doesn't even take note of her Crest of Flames.
Bloodlusted Dimitri would be a terrible opponent as in game it is implied that he is suicidal in his attempt for Edelgard's head. He would likely recklessly charge forth, not caring for his health. He is likely to waste his strength and stamina quickly. Edelgard know of his strength so why confront him directly when she can take advantage of it and tire him out quickly.
Edelgard did on her route fight against Dimitri, succeeded in defeating and bringing him to his knees. So, one can say that Edelgard is just as competently skilled and battle experience as Dimitri.
Why is people using a pre-timeskip scene to justify Post Timekskip Edelgard (5 years later), being the slower one? That scene happen when a battle has already commenced and Dimitri has surprised Edelgard (and us, let be honest) with his tenacity and strength. And Edelgard has shown capable of keeping up his Post Timeskip Byleth in multiple route, SS and VW.
I don't think the scene at the end of BL can say much about the charactesr. I don't Edelgard wanted to kill Dimitri there, more like give him a final push for him to finally end his step-sister life. Dimitri didn't do anything to avoid a fatal strike. All Dimitri did in the scene was move his lance forward to kill her.
(Side note: Edelgard has shown to teleport by herself in scenes like when she confront Kostas the bandit, Fayn kidnap mission and the Remire tradegy mission.
Bloodlusted Dimitri would be a terrible opponent as in game it is implied that he is suicidal in his attempt for Edelgard's head. He would likely recklessly charge forth, not caring for his health. He is likely to waste his strength and stamina quickly. Edelgard know of his strength so why confront him directly when she can take advantage of it and tire him out quickly.
Edelgard did on her route fight against Dimitri, succeeded in defeating and bringing him to his knees. So, one can say that Edelgard is just as competently skilled and battle experience as Dimitri.
Why is people using a pre-timeskip scene to justify Post Timekskip Edelgard (5 years later), being the slower one? That scene happen when a battle has already commenced and Dimitri has surprised Edelgard (and us, let be honest) with his tenacity and strength. And Edelgard has shown capable of keeping up his Post Timeskip Byleth in multiple route, SS and VW.
I don't think the scene at the end of BL can say much about the charactesr. I don't Edelgard wanted to kill Dimitri there, more like give him a final push for him to finally end his step-sister life. Dimitri didn't do anything to avoid a fatal strike. All Dimitri did in the scene was move his lance forward to kill her.
(Side note: Edelgard has shown to teleport by herself in scenes like when she confront Kostas the bandit, Fayn kidnap mission and the Remire tradegy mission.
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Edelgard's sword only passively heals her a small amount. It heals far more if it actually hits the enemy. Similarly, her Crest of Flames can't heal her unless she can hit Dimitri. My point is that if she's injured, she won't be able to heal with either of those methods, and her passive healing won't be enough. That's what I mean by a single good hit deciding the battle.
If Dimitri charges forward, there's not much Edelgard can do to stop him from closing the distance. She can't immobilize him due to his Commander skill, and she has less agility than him due to her armor. In Crimson Flower, how Dimitri is defeated depends on player choice, so she did not canonically beat him by herself. She and her army beat him and his army, which is a big difference.
Edelgard's teleportation could've been from some Rescue mages she had on standby. Again, we have no reason to believe she can use spells without being trained, let alone teleportation spells. It's just plot teleportation with all manner of possible explanations. There's no reason to assume that she has the ability to do it herself.
If Dimitri charges forward, there's not much Edelgard can do to stop him from closing the distance. She can't immobilize him due to his Commander skill, and she has less agility than him due to her armor. In Crimson Flower, how Dimitri is defeated depends on player choice, so she did not canonically beat him by herself. She and her army beat him and his army, which is a big difference.
Edelgard's teleportation could've been from some Rescue mages she had on standby. Again, we have no reason to believe she can use spells without being trained, let alone teleportation spells. It's just plot teleportation with all manner of possible explanations. There's no reason to assume that she has the ability to do it herself.
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> she has less agility than him due to her armor
Less agility in her armor? Are we talking about the same platinum blond hair emperor who jump higher than the Immaculate One in the very same heavy armor despite just having an intense battle with it alongside Byleth?
Less agility in her armor? Are we talking about the same platinum blond hair emperor who jump higher than the Immaculate One in the very same heavy armor despite just having an intense battle with it alongside Byleth?
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Edelgard fanboy (though I would put Dimitri 2nd) here and here are my 2 cents:
Shouldn't we be using endgame AM!Dimitri and CF!Edelgard? Dimitri gets to be both sane and strong.
Edelgard is only seen teleporting while in her Flame Emperor getup. Re-warp teleportation seems to be limited to Hubert, TWSITD, and anyone using TWSITD tech (Flame Emperor and Death Knight disguises). It doesn't seem to be magic based strangely enough.
Edelgard lugs around that big tower shield so it should give her an advantage against Dimitri. Dimitri is doomed if his spear gets stuck in there, as Edelgard would have no difficulty disarming him under those circumstances.
The Crest of Flames is the most powerful Crest in the setting, and adding a minor Crest of Seiros only makes things more ridiculous for Edelgard. Nemesis was the one leading the 10 Elites, not Blaiddyd after all.
Raging Storm is scary, especially if you try to wrap your head around how much faster she would have to move if she abused it to it's fullest extent.
I wouldn't hold the ending of AM against Edelgard, since she just plain gives up in the same situation and lets Byleth execute her in VW and SS.
I'm leaning Edelgard here, but Dimitri should take a few wins. You need more than strength to beat her consistently.
Have fun debating.
Shouldn't we be using endgame AM!Dimitri and CF!Edelgard? Dimitri gets to be both sane and strong.
Edelgard is only seen teleporting while in her Flame Emperor getup. Re-warp teleportation seems to be limited to Hubert, TWSITD, and anyone using TWSITD tech (Flame Emperor and Death Knight disguises). It doesn't seem to be magic based strangely enough.
Edelgard lugs around that big tower shield so it should give her an advantage against Dimitri. Dimitri is doomed if his spear gets stuck in there, as Edelgard would have no difficulty disarming him under those circumstances.
The Crest of Flames is the most powerful Crest in the setting, and adding a minor Crest of Seiros only makes things more ridiculous for Edelgard. Nemesis was the one leading the 10 Elites, not Blaiddyd after all.
Raging Storm is scary, especially if you try to wrap your head around how much faster she would have to move if she abused it to it's fullest extent.
I wouldn't hold the ending of AM against Edelgard, since she just plain gives up in the same situation and lets Byleth execute her in VW and SS.
I'm leaning Edelgard here, but Dimitri should take a few wins. You need more than strength to beat her consistently.
Have fun debating.
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I mean if we are using AM Dimitri and CF Edelgard it is pretty one sided. Sure, Dimitri may be more sane, but in exchange for that, they are willing to kill, but would prefer not to kill her. While Edelgard on the otherhand, she isn't nearly as bloodlusted as pre rodrigue death Dimitri, but she is far more willing to kill. It would likely result in a much more drawn out fight in which Edelgard would most certainly win, due to her healing factor and such. If we are using Bloodlusted Dimitri, it will be a relatively short fight, and It won't be a war of attrition.
And Dimitri getting their lance stuck is a pretty hypothetical. Either way, he'll likely pull it out with no difficulty. (again, due to their strength)
The Crest of flames is the most "powerful" crest, but the crest of Blaiddyd grants far more raw strength. (hard to explain). After all, we don't see Jeralt, Edelgard, or even Byleth constantly breaking their weapons from their strength. Even as a kid, Dimitri was able to snap a sword in half by swinging it too hard.
Idk how Raging storm would really work, considering the fact that turns are game mechanics.
Sure, you need more than strength to win a fight most of the time, but not all the time. Assuming that Dimitri is bloodlusted, they would end the fight pretty quickly.
And Dimitri getting their lance stuck is a pretty hypothetical. Either way, he'll likely pull it out with no difficulty. (again, due to their strength)
The Crest of flames is the most "powerful" crest, but the crest of Blaiddyd grants far more raw strength. (hard to explain). After all, we don't see Jeralt, Edelgard, or even Byleth constantly breaking their weapons from their strength. Even as a kid, Dimitri was able to snap a sword in half by swinging it too hard.
Idk how Raging storm would really work, considering the fact that turns are game mechanics.
Sure, you need more than strength to win a fight most of the time, but not all the time. Assuming that Dimitri is bloodlusted, they would end the fight pretty quickly.
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I personally believe Edelgard has the advantage here FRA. First of all, it is best to avoid game mechanics, and most characters generally win in their routes due to protagonist status. But in Black Eagles/Crimson Flower, El is the one who bested Dimitri single handedly based on the narrative. And sure this isn't Hegemon Edelgard; which requited the combined might of Byleth and Dimitri to bring down. She also had to fight a serious Seiros the same time she fights Dimitri if we're going to assume "She had help from Byleth."
But anyway, Edelgard has more versatility due to her use of magic, durability negation, and healing as mentioned above. And her duel crests could turn the tables pretty well. She also does have the range advantage to use. Also, I believe Edelgard's raw power is being downplayed here. Even her early stages portrayed El as someone who can casually slay monsters single handedly. And that she was often stated to be "Second to none" based on Hubert and Ferdinand's support conversations.
But anyway, Edelgard has more versatility due to her use of magic, durability negation, and healing as mentioned above. And her duel crests could turn the tables pretty well. She also does have the range advantage to use. Also, I believe Edelgard's raw power is being downplayed here. Even her early stages portrayed El as someone who can casually slay monsters single handedly. And that she was often stated to be "Second to none" based on Hubert and Ferdinand's support conversations.
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I don't think its confirmed that Edelgard bested Dimitri single handedly. He even has another ending with Dedue, where the cutscene doesn't show, so I think its safe to assume it was a combination of Edelgard's army + Edelgard. Not to mention, Dimitri isn't as bloodlusted in CF as other routes.
As I've said before, Edelgard is very unlikely to start camping out Dimitri straight away. Even if they did, they both have DC, so neither really have the range advantage. Her primary weapon of choice is Aymr, so they are most likely going to start off with Melee, before switching to any kind of magic. I've also said this before, but her healing factor won't really be that helpful in this case, since the fight will likely be relatively short.
If this was post rodrigue death AM Dimitri, that would be an entirely different story, as he has less of a desire to kill Edelgard. But assuming that this is Pre-Rodrigue death AM Dimitri, they would likely end the fight rather quickly. Her battalions wouldn't be of much help either, considering the fact that Dimitri mows down regular soldiers like tall grass. Edelgard would likely be overwhelmed by Dimitri's sheer strength (and his own battalion i guess) before being defeated. (And I heavily doubt that Edelgard could escape. She likely doesn't even have teleportation, rather her troops are the ones to teleport her.)
As I've said before, Edelgard is very unlikely to start camping out Dimitri straight away. Even if they did, they both have DC, so neither really have the range advantage. Her primary weapon of choice is Aymr, so they are most likely going to start off with Melee, before switching to any kind of magic. I've also said this before, but her healing factor won't really be that helpful in this case, since the fight will likely be relatively short.
If this was post rodrigue death AM Dimitri, that would be an entirely different story, as he has less of a desire to kill Edelgard. But assuming that this is Pre-Rodrigue death AM Dimitri, they would likely end the fight rather quickly. Her battalions wouldn't be of much help either, considering the fact that Dimitri mows down regular soldiers like tall grass. Edelgard would likely be overwhelmed by Dimitri's sheer strength (and his own battalion i guess) before being defeated. (And I heavily doubt that Edelgard could escape. She likely doesn't even have teleportation, rather her troops are the ones to teleport her.)
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I don't think there's any reason to assume that Edelgard beat Dimitri single-handedly in Crimson Flower. They were beaten in large scale army vs army battles. Nobody has the range advantage here; their Counterattack abilities make range a moot point. If Edelgard tries to attack from a distance, she's going to get countered hard. Dimitri also has abilities that boost his avoidance too, so he has the advantage in that situation. Edelgard's durability negation from her Luna spell is not enough to defeat Dimitri quickly due to her average magical abilities, and as was said before, we do not know what canon abilities her crests give her. All we know is that Dimitri's gives him tons of strength. Also, Edelgard slaying monsters is not as impressive as it sounds, since Byleth and Ferdinand are able to kill two monsters at once early in the game. Lastly, Ferdinand and Hubert are probably some of the least reliable sources of information about Edelgard, since they both have significant emotional connections to her. There's also the fact that they are both wrong about that, since Byleth, Nemesis and Seiros are each superior to Edelgard alone.
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Current Votes:
Edelgard: 5 (KobsterHope07, Schnee One, BlackMageVI, XSOULOFCINDERX, DarkDragonMedus)
Dimitri: 5 (AsianAntics, Rtxthegamer, Fdrybob, Ionliosite, Thatsafloridathing)
Edelgard: 5 (KobsterHope07, Schnee One, BlackMageVI, XSOULOFCINDERX, DarkDragonMedus)
Dimitri: 5 (AsianAntics, Rtxthegamer, Fdrybob, Ionliosite, Thatsafloridathing)
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Wait, Edelgard has an average magic abilities?! Can't said much about Dimitri since I haven't play Blue Lion (Only BE and Church), but my Edelgard with max stat has about 72 MAG and 47 RES. It may not be as high as Lythesia who has max stat of 86 MAG and 41 RES, but it is pretty high up.
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Well magic isn't exactly their strongest point. And stats are pretty much game mechanics.
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Yeah, we don't use gameplay stats; we do use lore stuff such as duel crests and various special abilities though.
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Edelgard's magic growth is 45%, which certainly isn't bad, but it's lower than every canon magic-using unit in the game, which makes sense given that she doesn't use magic at all outside of player influence. Luna is the least powerful spell in the game and can't double, in order to balance its ability to ignore resistance, so it is much more effective on dedicated magic units. Dimitri is tied for the second-highest HP growth in the game at 55%, so I don't think it will stop him. Either way, feats matter more, which is why I won't lean on that point very much.PlumCrayfish376 said:
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It doesn't matter if it is a hypothetical. Dimitri getting his lance stuck in the shield of a peer opponent would prove fatal and it is one of those soft advantages that Edelgard has over him.
Dimitri's power incontinence is a disadvantage for him, especially against Edelgard who doesn't have that issue while still having super human strength.
Being blood lusted doesn't give you more strength, it just makes you more prone to making mistakes, like charging headlong into enemy lines.
Edelgard has teleportation built into her Flame Emperor outfit, as demonstrated by her scene with Kostas.
Byleth is equal to Edelgard as demonstrated in the first cutscene of Silver Snow. Edelgard killed Seiros/The Immaculate One and that was the entire reason TWS carried out their experiments on Edelgard in the first place. Nemesis lost to Seiros, who Edelgard won against.
If the game developers didn't want to imply that Edelgard was strong then they wouldn't have given her 1 extra point of base strength over Dimitri.
The feat Edelgard pulls in the ending cutscene of Crimson Flower puts Dimitri's feats to shame (any half decent Fire Emblem character can knock away multiple generics with ease, including Ike).
Don't forget her reluctance to carry Byleth back on her own during chapter 10 after Byleth collapses, when she asks Hubert to assist her, heavily implying that she doesn't want knowledge of her raw strength to get out, since that isn't something a Seiros Crest is known to provide.
45% Magic growth is higher than what Dorothea, Lorenz, Manuela, and Anna get, and equal to Linhardt and one of the datamined Wave 4 characters (the dark magic using Timotheos Crest).
Dimitri's power incontinence is a disadvantage for him, especially against Edelgard who doesn't have that issue while still having super human strength.
Being blood lusted doesn't give you more strength, it just makes you more prone to making mistakes, like charging headlong into enemy lines.
Edelgard has teleportation built into her Flame Emperor outfit, as demonstrated by her scene with Kostas.
Byleth is equal to Edelgard as demonstrated in the first cutscene of Silver Snow. Edelgard killed Seiros/The Immaculate One and that was the entire reason TWS carried out their experiments on Edelgard in the first place. Nemesis lost to Seiros, who Edelgard won against.
If the game developers didn't want to imply that Edelgard was strong then they wouldn't have given her 1 extra point of base strength over Dimitri.
The feat Edelgard pulls in the ending cutscene of Crimson Flower puts Dimitri's feats to shame (any half decent Fire Emblem character can knock away multiple generics with ease, including Ike).
Don't forget her reluctance to carry Byleth back on her own during chapter 10 after Byleth collapses, when she asks Hubert to assist her, heavily implying that she doesn't want knowledge of her raw strength to get out, since that isn't something a Seiros Crest is known to provide.
45% Magic growth is higher than what Dorothea, Lorenz, Manuela, and Anna get, and equal to Linhardt and one of the datamined Wave 4 characters (the dark magic using Timotheos Crest).
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Gonna have to go with Edelgard.
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Hmmm...after reading over the arguements, I'll go with Edelgard FRA.
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Current Votes:
Edelgard: 7 (KobsterHope07, Schnee One, BlackMageVI, XSOULOFCINDERX, DarkDragonMedus, LSirLancelotDuLacl, C2 of Omegon)
Dimitri: 5 (AsianAntics, Rtxthegamer, Fdrybob, Ionliosite, Thatsafloridathing)
Edelgard: 7 (KobsterHope07, Schnee One, BlackMageVI, XSOULOFCINDERX, DarkDragonMedus, LSirLancelotDuLacl, C2 of Omegon)
Dimitri: 5 (AsianAntics, Rtxthegamer, Fdrybob, Ionliosite, Thatsafloridathing)
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Just realized I haven't officially vote so I vote for El as well for the reasons above.
And that's should be Grace
And that's should be Grace
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Alright first of all, stats are game mechanics. If we are using stats, then we can say that wobuffet can tank more attacks than arceus.
Being bloodlusted isn't necessarily a backdraw. It doesn't make you stronger, but it puts you at peak strength, not to mention motivation to win. Since Dimitri isn't holding anything back, they would mow down Edelgard's battalion like they did in the holy mausoleum.
Even If Dimitri got his lance "stuck" he would pull it out with ease. Edelgard would likely be the one to be at a disadvantage, since she no longer has a shield. Once again, this is a hypothetical. If we are going by hypotheticals, then we can say that Dimitri all the sudden is no longer bloodlusted, and is trying to talk it out with Edelgard.
I don't see how dimitri's "power incontinence" would put him at a major disadvantage. This just further proves how strong Dimitri is. I think this is just a display of strength by the developers anyways. Kind of like how Saitama one shots everyone he faces, or breaks things with ease.
Edelgard doesn't have their flame emperor armor, as this is post timeskip. Even if she did, it would take forever to switch between armor. I don't think there even is anything implying that they can teleport because of their armor.
Serios/Immaculate one is somewhat implied to have grown weaker over the ages. We can see that some of the other saints stating that they are growing weaker overtime. Seteth repeatedly states that hes aging.Saint Indech even states that his power wasn't what it once was. I think its also safe to assume that Nemesis has grown stronger. He is even invulnerable with the power of the ten elites. but hes another can of worms entirely so ill just leave it at that.
Don't have much to say about the feats part, but it doesn't prove that shes stronger than Dimitri.
Her reluctance to carry Byleth, doesn't prove much. Pretty much anyone in three houses should be able to carry someone. (Take Caspar for example.) Why would carrying someone immediately make Edelgard's secret of two crests be revealed? Pretty much anyone in the game can do that. If anything, this shows that Edelgard isn't that strong. But i think this is just PIS.
Being bloodlusted isn't necessarily a backdraw. It doesn't make you stronger, but it puts you at peak strength, not to mention motivation to win. Since Dimitri isn't holding anything back, they would mow down Edelgard's battalion like they did in the holy mausoleum.
Even If Dimitri got his lance "stuck" he would pull it out with ease. Edelgard would likely be the one to be at a disadvantage, since she no longer has a shield. Once again, this is a hypothetical. If we are going by hypotheticals, then we can say that Dimitri all the sudden is no longer bloodlusted, and is trying to talk it out with Edelgard.
I don't see how dimitri's "power incontinence" would put him at a major disadvantage. This just further proves how strong Dimitri is. I think this is just a display of strength by the developers anyways. Kind of like how Saitama one shots everyone he faces, or breaks things with ease.
Edelgard doesn't have their flame emperor armor, as this is post timeskip. Even if she did, it would take forever to switch between armor. I don't think there even is anything implying that they can teleport because of their armor.
Serios/Immaculate one is somewhat implied to have grown weaker over the ages. We can see that some of the other saints stating that they are growing weaker overtime. Seteth repeatedly states that hes aging.Saint Indech even states that his power wasn't what it once was. I think its also safe to assume that Nemesis has grown stronger. He is even invulnerable with the power of the ten elites. but hes another can of worms entirely so ill just leave it at that.
Don't have much to say about the feats part, but it doesn't prove that shes stronger than Dimitri.
Her reluctance to carry Byleth, doesn't prove much. Pretty much anyone in three houses should be able to carry someone. (Take Caspar for example.) Why would carrying someone immediately make Edelgard's secret of two crests be revealed? Pretty much anyone in the game can do that. If anything, this shows that Edelgard isn't that strong. But i think this is just PIS.
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Edelgard's teleportation is not proven by her cutscene with Kostas. As I said earlier, she could've just had a Rescue mage on standby. If she had teleportation built into her armor, then why doesn't she ever use that armor again after the timeskip? Even if it did work that way, it doesn't matter since she's not wearing it here. Also, Edelgard has 1 higher base strength than DImitri, but she has a lower growth rate for it. The reason she has higher base strength is because axe users do more damage but have less accuracy than spear users, though this dynamic changes as you approach the end of the game. Also, Edelgard did not kill The Immaculate One alone. Even if she did, it's safe to assume that any of the lords could have pulled it off since Byleth defeats an even stronger form of the Immaculate One without any lords on his side in Silver Snow. Also, I don't really think it's possible to tell how much damage Edelgard's Luna spell will do to Dimitri without using game mechanics. Either way, if she uses it, Dimitri's Counter skill will let him hit back much harder.
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Okay, a lot of the things Naberius said was overboard, all over the place, taking game mechanics and weird scenes too literally, among other things. I agree teleportation sounds more like allies using rescue staves among other things. The "lance getting stuck" thing is quite weird and very assumptive yes, and "Power incontinence" can be interpreted very wrong... I would have said Power Instability.
However, I do agree that Edelgard has never truly demonstrated her full power in any of the other routes. She's always hiding her crests due to her not liking the idea that crests are seen as things that make others look special. And yeah, it did require Byleth and Edelgard to take out Immaculate One, but Immaculate One was never implied to be weaker. Base Seiros/Rhea arguably, but Immaculate One. In fact, Immaculate One was the one who's stated to be powerful enough to destroy all of Fodlan. That being said, it was base Seiros who slew Nemesis. Also, in the Crimson Flower Route, Dimitri was even more bloodlusted than ever due to Byleth choosing her over the church of Seiros, yet Edelgard still slaughtered him. Luna could potentially be a one hit KO given it ignores durability and can be used for critical hits.
Also, as a minor note. If we took gameplay literally, then Nemesis is actually the least powerful of the end game bosses on maddening difficulty. And Hegemon Edelgard is pretty equal to the prime Immaculate One. And where is it stated that the Silver Snow version of Immaculate One is stronger than the Crimson Flower version? I played through them and don't remember anything on that matter.
However, I do agree that Edelgard has never truly demonstrated her full power in any of the other routes. She's always hiding her crests due to her not liking the idea that crests are seen as things that make others look special. And yeah, it did require Byleth and Edelgard to take out Immaculate One, but Immaculate One was never implied to be weaker. Base Seiros/Rhea arguably, but Immaculate One. In fact, Immaculate One was the one who's stated to be powerful enough to destroy all of Fodlan. That being said, it was base Seiros who slew Nemesis. Also, in the Crimson Flower Route, Dimitri was even more bloodlusted than ever due to Byleth choosing her over the church of Seiros, yet Edelgard still slaughtered him. Luna could potentially be a one hit KO given it ignores durability and can be used for critical hits.
Also, as a minor note. If we took gameplay literally, then Nemesis is actually the least powerful of the end game bosses on maddening difficulty. And Hegemon Edelgard is pretty equal to the prime Immaculate One. And where is it stated that the Silver Snow version of Immaculate One is stronger than the Crimson Flower version? I played through them and don't remember anything on that matter.
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I think its safe to assume that all of the saints (excluding Flayn i guess) have grown somewhat weaker over time, as Indech and Cichol/Seteth have stated that they have grown weaker.
I think Dimitri was actually more bloodlusted in the other routes, since we can see that in his sprites. If that isn't enough to prove it, well Dimitri was pretty much all alone in the other routes. He spent his 5 years fighting imperial soldiers clinging onto his desire for revenge. As for CF, he had other people around him to support him, so he didn't go completely crazy. If this is pre-dedue recruitment dimitri, then he would be even more bloodlusted, since that is another person he feels he needed to avenge in AM.
I guess Luna COULD potentially do that, but once again, what is the likelyhood of Edelgard immediately using her spells to camp out Dimitri, let alone getting a critical hit? Besides, it wasn't even a 1v1, it was a full-fledged battle. Anything could've happened in prior to Edelgard killing him. Heck, Dimitri even gets a different ending in CF if Dedue doesn't transform, so we don't know who killed him there.
I think Dimitri was actually more bloodlusted in the other routes, since we can see that in his sprites. If that isn't enough to prove it, well Dimitri was pretty much all alone in the other routes. He spent his 5 years fighting imperial soldiers clinging onto his desire for revenge. As for CF, he had other people around him to support him, so he didn't go completely crazy. If this is pre-dedue recruitment dimitri, then he would be even more bloodlusted, since that is another person he feels he needed to avenge in AM.
I guess Luna COULD potentially do that, but once again, what is the likelyhood of Edelgard immediately using her spells to camp out Dimitri, let alone getting a critical hit? Besides, it wasn't even a 1v1, it was a full-fledged battle. Anything could've happened in prior to Edelgard killing him. Heck, Dimitri even gets a different ending in CF if Dedue doesn't transform, so we don't know who killed him there.
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Also, I'd actually argue that Nemesis is the strongest if we are including stats and stuff like that. He's 13 levels ahead of the immaculate one, and 8 levels ahead of hegemon edelgard in maddening. He's always level 60 no matter which difficulty. His stats are even higher with the ten elites, and he even has invulnerability with the power of the ten elites, making them arguably more durable than both of them. (Well, for one attack in the turn but you get my point.)
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The Adrestian Empire was fighting against the combined might of Faerghus and the Church of Seiros and still won, so it was implied that the Blue Lions had more forces during that battle. And the fact that the Adrestian Empire may have lost some of their troops during their fight with the Leicester Alliance is another thing to consider. Those Who Slither also haven't technically assisted them during the battle either. And if you pay attention to the cut-scene, it still should be noted Edelgard was the one who gave Dimitri the final blow and literally cuts off his head Nintendo was worried that the game would get an M-rating if that was a full cut scene. Though, to be fair, it's always Byleth's presence is generally the deciding factor regardless of route.
Nemesis is the only end game boss that could get ones-shotted though.
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That doesn't change the fact that Dimitri was involved in the fighting, and likely got hurt from doing that. It wasn't just a 1v1 between him and Edelgard. TWSITD may have actually assistd the empire, since we see Arundel/Thales before the final battle. Also in VW, the alliance was able to fend off Imperial troops despite them being vastly outnumbered. So i think its safe to assume that, like you said, Byleth's presence is generally the deciding factor.
Sure, Edelgard may have been the one to kill Dimitri, but we don't know what happened before that. Any number of things could've happened.
immaculate one can also be killed in one turn via raging storm spam so I don't see your point
Sure, Edelgard may have been the one to kill Dimitri, but we don't know what happened before that. Any number of things could've happened.
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And given Dimitri's canonical strength, he should have been stomping everyone who isn't Edelgard or Byleth. And Byleth didn't appear to be the one who weakened Dimitri before Edelgard did; because Byleth otherwise should have been more than enough to best him on his/her own. Immaculate One and Hegemon still require at least 4 hits, especially with the final form's 199 HP being well more than Nemesis has in total.
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Overtime, he would have been fatigued and injured though by the sheer number of troops. I think its actually safe to assume that the Imperial army had far more troops and stuff, as they have the support of TWSITD, parts of the Kingdom, and the Alliance. Not to mention the Death Knight, and monsters. Nemesis is partially invulnerable with the 10 elites though, not to mention he pretty much one shots everyone.
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Dimitri isn't invincible, even with his super-strength. In Verdant Wind, he gets overwhelmed by a bunch of Edelgard's soldiers after he loses control and charges in alone. Dimitri is just one man. He can't easily fight huge groups of people by himself without taking some hits. Again, there's no reason to believe he and Edelgard had a 1v1 at full strength.
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I'll keep this brief seeing as pretty much every arguement for either side has already been made, but I vote for Dimitri. Bloodlusted or not, he just outclassed Edelgard in every way. Twin crests help, most certainly, but I only feel like that brings her up to a level on par with Dimitri rather than surpassing him. This is the guy that actively has to avoid using the majority of his strength every time he fights, for fear of snapping his weapons clean in half from the impact alone. He probably has enough strength to break through her defenses with an iron lance, much less Areadbhar. He gets an Atrocity in, and she's done like dinner.
Bloodlusted, i'd say Edelgard has a chance, seeing as he's more prone to making mistakes, but I don't feel like that's enough to swing it to her side. If he's sane, it's no contest.
Bloodlusted, i'd say Edelgard has a chance, seeing as he's more prone to making mistakes, but I don't feel like that's enough to swing it to her side. If he's sane, it's no contest.
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Never said Dimitri was invincible, but the fact that he's 7-A and literally dozens of times stronger than a bunch of 7-C foot soldiers. Also, Edelgard was often invulnerable to a lot of fodder units due to her high defense in Crimson Flower. And she's hella OP when wielding gauntlets. Also, if Dimitri is literally breaking his weapons through sheer strength, that kind of shows he has trouble controlling his strength, and suggests Edelgard might be the better fighter given she's more like Kenshin; knowing how to wield a weapon without breaking anything.
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I think Dimitri gets better at controlling his strength overtime though, as we can see with Mercedes' support with him. Breaking his weapons is just a display of his strength.
And I'd actually argue that sane Dimitri is more likely to lose, since he doesn't have as much motivation to win, and it would be a more drawn out fight. Edelgard has many ways to heal, and attack with magic if needs be. None of this would happen if Dimitri was bloodlusted, as he would end the fight quickly.
And I'd actually argue that sane Dimitri is more likely to lose, since he doesn't have as much motivation to win, and it would be a more drawn out fight. Edelgard has many ways to heal, and attack with magic if needs be. None of this would happen if Dimitri was bloodlusted, as he would end the fight quickly.
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