Invulnerability revision

[XXKINGXX69]

Characters with such powers may simply be unaffected by normal attacks

What does normal attack mean and how is this different from durability? There needs to be a better explanation for the difference between invulnerability and just durability on the page. I'll give some examples of what I think is "real invulnerability" and maybe you could think of a better explanation

• Bending the laws of the universe to make one immune to damage
  • This is invulnerability because its making you power null attacks that hit you, passively
• Being immune to attacks unless you can match the "wavelength" of the user to affect them
  • This one is vague since we don't really know what "wavelength" exactly means, but we do know its implying you need something more than physical strength to damage something, so its still invulnerability, not just durability. We also wouldn't know the limit to the invulnerability, and can't assume the invulnerability of the character in the scan would block out attacks that are 8-A or whatever unless the invulnerability in question has feats on that level
• Generic "attacks that come to the user will get nullified or cancelled out"
  • This one would be both power null and invulnerability

The problem is that for most legitimate examples of invulnerability, its almost no different from power nullification. So why is invulnerability even a thing if its literally just passive power null?

The second issue is for platformer characters with invulnerability powerups and forms. A lot of them get invulnerability simply because they're stated to be invulnerable. The problem with this is that there is no difference between being invulnerable to an attack and taking no damage from an attack because you're durable. If you tank a nuke with 0 damage, that's also being invulnerable to the nuke.

My suggestion is to either:
1) just merge the two abilities; if you have some kind of platformer invulnerable powerup that passively cancels out attacks, that would be the same as power null, like how if you add Heat Manipulation to a profile it would redirect to temperature manipulation
2) Keep the two abilities separate, but they would still be the same thing, similar to how heat manipulation and lava manipulation are pretty much the same thing, but how the ability is done is different. The only difference between invulnerability and power null is that the former is this passive thing and attacks are negated by the body of the user, not like using a move to seal an enemy's abilities

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bump

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bump

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bump

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bump

 

[Earthyboy]

Dead thread

 

[Aachintya31]

Remake Make this a staff thread.

 

[Excellence616]

Remake Make this a staff thread.

Yeah, that would be better.

 

[Bobsican]

Should be moved to the staff forum

 

[Antvasima]

I moved it.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

The second suggestion is too simplified for me, especially the difference part, because I am pretty sure there are passive power nulls that do not fall under the invulnerability category, no?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The second suggestion is too simplified for me, especially the difference part, because I am pretty sure there are passive power nulls that do not fall under the invulnerability category, no?

Can you name an example?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Bump

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

@Andytrenom @SomebodyData @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?

 

[Sniper670]

Bump.

I believe Invulnerability page on its own, doesn't need a rework, but Invulnerability by nullifying physical attacks should be one of the types of Power Nullification and should be noted under that.

I'm saying that because Invulnerability broadly speaking, can come from many different different and it's page should be left as is, to account for all the possibilities that come from it.

 

[Mr._Undetected]

I think I'd go for option 2, considering that another example of an Invulnerability case that's easiest is Superman(the one where he's immune to attacks that don't contain Kryptonite, simply) so the two abilities are better kept separate.

 

[Sniper670]

I think I'd go for option 2, considering that another example of an Invulnerability case that's easiest is Superman(the one where he's immune to attacks that don't contain Kryptonite, simply) so the two abilities are better kept separate.

BUMP.

I lean towards that option as well

 

[DontTalkDT]

I mean, for a start, saying "I powernull earth's natural gravity to not take fall damage" is kinda weird.
But more specifically, the difference is that, in general, powernull can be defeated by brute force while invulnerability can't.
Invulnerability is reserved to those that have a mechanism that allows them to be unaffected by stuff far above their showings.

 

[Antvasima]

DontTalk is correct, as far as I am aware.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I mean, for a start, saying "I powernull earth's natural gravity to not take fall damage" is kinda weird.
But more specifically, the difference is that, in general, powernull can be defeated by brute force while invulnerability can't.
Invulnerability is reserved to those that have a mechanism that allows them to be unaffected by stuff far above their showings.

Yeah, Invulnerability is a passive attack potency nullification that makes someone basically immune to all traditional attacks.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

But more specifically, the difference is that, in general, powernull can be defeated by brute force while invulnerability can't.
Invulnerability is reserved to those that have a mechanism that allows them to be unaffected by stuff far above their showings.

Do you think invulnerability users can't be harmed even by something thousands of times stronger than them?

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

Do you think invulnerability users can't be harmed even by something thousands of times stronger than them?

yes, that is the ability

 

[XXKINGXX69]

yes, that is the ability

Why

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

because its an ability some characters have, its the reverse of durability negation, its attack potency negation

 

[XXKINGXX69]

because its an ability some characters have, its the reverse of durability negation, its attack potency negation

Name some characters who can become immune to attacks no matter how strong they are

 

[Antoniofer]

Personally, I find the difference between Invulnerability and indefinitely high Durability pretty dim, the only thing that separates them is an anti-feat: someone that presumely turns invulnerable but is somehow is damage by a relatively strong attack will stop having Invulnerability and his power willsimply be "reduced" to having high durability, meanwhile if someone does the same but is not damaged afterward, will be granted Invulnerability.

Then you have Damage Reduction/Negation, that works similary, and can even say that someone with high Durability will reduce the damage of certain attacks.

 

[Purgy]

Genuine invulnerability does exist and isn't simply nullifying all attacks so it shouldn't be absorbed into power null

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Genuine invulnerability does exist and isn't simply nullifying all attacks so it shouldn't be absorbed into power null

How can someone be "immune to all attacks no matter what"?

 

[Purgy]

How can someone be "immune to all attacks no matter what"?

Invulnerability doesn't have to be "immune to all attacks no matter what", rather, most of the time it's "immune to a specific type of attack or attacks".

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Invulnerability doesn't have to be "immune to all attacks no matter what", rather, most of the time it's "immune to a specific type of attack or attacks".

Yeah but how can that be different from power null? How do you think the invulnerability works?

 

[Purgy]

Yeah but how can that be different from power null? How do you think the invulnerability works?

Not all cases of invulnerability involve nullifying the attack.

There are many kinds of invulnerability so it depends.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Not all cases of invulnerability involve nullifying the attack.

There are many kinds of invulnerability so it depends.

Can you name an example

 

[Purgy]

Can you name an example

Possible Invulnerability (Souls are implied to only be able to be damaged by attacks that strike on the astral level, This is further implied by Jackie's statement)

They're not powernulling the attack, it's really as simple as only soul based attacks harm them

 

[XXKINGXX69]

They're not powernulling the attack, it's really as simple as only soul based attacks harm them

That's just being immune to physical attacks which is incorporeality. Souls are obviously only able to take damage from things that can harm souls. Either that, or they have higher durability against physical things

 

[Purgy]

That's just being immune to physical attacks which is incorporeality. Souls are obviously only able to take damage from things that can harm souls

99% of Bleach souls are completely tangible, them being immune to attacks except soul based ones is invulnerability.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

99% of Bleach souls are completely tangible, them being immune to attacks except soul based ones is invulnerability.

I think its the second explanation then

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The difference between Invulnerability and having like High 3-A or Low 1-A durability is that the former also often times only applies to certain types of attacks. Such as Nasuverse servants being immune to "All thrown attacks" or "Immune to all modern weapons that possess no magical properties" but it's implied punching them would still hurt normally. Otherwise, invulnerability is sometimes things that only apply to pure physical attacks and not things like magic where as not all magic negates durability but if Invulnerability doesn't apply to magic spells then magic can bypass it even if it's just a basic fireball spell or whatnot.

Also, intangibility and invulnerability are two different things too; the former just have things go through you unless there is non-physical interaction while the latter just consist of things not hurting you even if it touches you.

 

[Purgy]

I think its the second explanation then

The explanation is that it's invulnerability, higher durability isn't indicated anywhere.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The explanation is that it's invulnerability, higher durability isn't indicated anywhere.

Do you think souls can no sell 3-B attacks?