Invincible vs The Queen of the Monsters

[Dusty_Raider]

Mothra (MonsterVerse)

Mothra, also called Titanus Mosura by Monarch, is one of the kaiju that appear in the 2019 film, Godzilla: King of Monsters. She fights on the side of Godzilla against King Ghidorah, dying so she could empower Godzilla to a point he could defeat the alien menace. Tier: At least High 7-C | 6-B |...

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Invincible (TV Series)

Mark Grayson, also known as Invincible, is the eponymous main character of the Invincible television series. Gaining his powers at 17 years old, Mark discovers the harsh realities of being a superhero while struggling to juggle his newfound responsibilities in his civilian life. Mark is the son...

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Speed equalized

Mothra:

Omni-Man:

Incon:

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

I think this might be a stomp in Omni Man's favor, or at least, it heavily leans towards him. Mothra doesn't exactly have any hax that'd give Omni Man any sort of trouble, and Mothra scales about 100 megatons higher than Mark, not even 2x. Allen survived that without a scratch, and his punches did nowhere near the damage to Mark that Omni Man's did. She can't harm him in the time it takes for him to tear her apart.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I don't see how it's a stomp. Omni-Man scaling vastly above 347 megatons does not make him as strong as 452 Megatons

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

It makes him far stronger, as he is more than dozens of times stronger than Mark. His strongest punch didn't put a dent in him, while Omni Man had to hold back immensely to prevent himself from flooring Invincible with one hit. An asteroid that Mark had to put like, all of his effort in to stop was considered a 'small one' by Omni Man.

 

[Keeweed]

I don't see how it's a stomp. Omni-Man scaling vastly above 347 megatons does not make him as strong as 452 Megatons

Omni man is practically invincible to the Mark’s feat and easily stomps him. I think at the very best he nearly one shots, at worst he does one shot.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Him being able to one-shot a 347 should just make him above it by an unquantifiable amount, at best it makes him almost the level of Mothra

 

[Keeweed]

That’s really low balling how we treat stomps. That is like saying a character that stomps 60 tons in verse won’t be able to stomp someone else who is 60 tons on this site.

She has barely higher ap then Mark, Omni Man completely obliterates Mark, he should practically stomp her.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

452 is barely higher than 347?

 

[Keeweed]

It’s like a 1.5 times gap. That’s barely anything.

 

[Keeweed]

Actually, after a closer check, it’s 1.3, that’s practically nothing.

Edit: I’m going to bed now, I just want to make something clear. While stomps are unquantifiable, they aren’t completely unusable. We don’t give them exact numbers, because there isn’t anyway to prove a precise number. But for ap gaps like this they still absolutely matter. She is a quarter stronger than Mark and Omni Man completely stomps Mark. Her ridiculously tiny ap advantage shouldn’t mean much, at best it can possibly mean she doesn’t instantly die, but Omni Man should still has a pretty massive ap advantage over her since he scales to stomping a feat literally right behind her feat.

 

[Dusty_Raider]

Would replacing Omni man with Invincible be better?

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah that would be a lot better.

 

[theultimate5105]

thats not how we treat gaps on the site
A one shot in one verse could be different then a one shot in another verse
Mothra has the AP advantage here

 

[Keeweed]

thats not how we treat gaps on the site
A one shot in one verse could be different then a one shot in another verse

The one shots can be different, which is why we don’t give them numbers. But I’ve constantly seen matches end with characters stomping other characters because while their number is somewhat lower, they scale to stomping their feat.

Like are we seriously trying to say that someone that someone that obliterates a person .3 times weaker wouldn’t either obliterate or practically obliterate the person .3 times stronger. Stomps are unquantifiable, but they aren’t that ridiculously unquantifiable. You are still ridiculously above your feat, we just don’t know the numbers.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The one shots can be different, which is why we don’t give them numbers. But I’ve constantly seen matches end with characters stomping other characters because while their number is somewhat lower, they scale to stomping their feat.

Like are we seriously trying to say that someone that someone that obliterates a person .3 times weaker wouldn’t either obliterate or practically obliterate the person .3 times stronger. Stomps are unquantifiable, but they aren’t that ridiculously unquantifiable. You are still ridiculously above your feat, we just don’t know the numbers.

I don’t recall all the matches as being completely onesided as we do have a page regarding stomps and one shots.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Stomp_Thread#What_is_a_Stomp.3F

One-Shot

A One-Shot is a self-explanatory term, referring to defeating an opponent in a single attack. Take two hypothetical opponents. We'll call them Fighter A and Fighter B. In a normal fight, Fighters A and B can exchange several attacks with each other. When one of the fighters can one-shot, Fighter...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[HammerStrikes219]

“Assuming a situation in which one character has humanoid physiology and is hit in the torso region, the assailant will normally be treated as needing an attack potency 7.5 times higher than their opponent's durability in order to one-shot them.”
From the one shot page

 

[Keeweed]

The stomp page says nothing about stomps like this, and the one shot page says it’s case by case. In that case Montra is .3 times stronger than the man Omni man can overpower, stomp, and is practically invincible to. He should stomp.

 

[Keeweed]

“Assuming a situation in which one character has humanoid physiology and is hit in the torso region, the assailant will normally be treated as needing an attack potency 7.5 times higher than their opponent's durability in order to one-shot them.”
From the one shot page

Oh my god why do people keep referencing this whenever I bring up stomps like this.

That applies to stomps that have no stomping chains. If the characters directly scale to their feats then a character needs 7.5 times the ap to stomp.

But if a character backscales to 10 tons and his opponent flash vaporizes 9 tons, why in the hell would the ten ton character have the ap advantage and not get stomped?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Oh my god why do people keep referencing this whenever I bring up stomps like this.

That applies to stomps that have no stomping chains. If the characters directly scale to their feats then a character needs 7.5 times the ap to stomp.

But if a character backscales to 10 tons and his opponent flash vaporizes 9 tons, why in the hell would the ten ton character have the ap advantage and not get stomped?

Because you are literally suggesting that the character is getting stomped despite the ap gaps as the main reason as to why it is because they have abilities that make up the ap gap and as such, the ap advantage can been ignored due to any abilities in play or feats.


Also speaking of which, I have to remain neutral to this as that isn’t always the case where the one that has less AP beats out the one with AP advantage.

 

[Keeweed]

The ap gap is .3, man. It’s nearly a lie to say there is a gap there to begin with. Omni man completely obliterated someone with practically the same ap. I’m not ignoring the gap, the gap is just meaningless. This one of the smallest ap gaps I’ve seen on this site.

I’ve seen multiple matches end with characters practically getting stomped even when the gap was vastly larger.

We do not need to be this cartoonishly strict.

 

[theultimate5105]

The ap gap is .3, man. It’s nearly a lie to say their is a gap there to begin with. Omni man completely obliterated someone with practically the same ap. I’m not ignoring the gap, the gap is just meaningless. This one of the smallest ap gaps I’ve seen on this sight.

I’ve seen multiple matches end with characters practically getting stomped even when the gap was vastly larger.

We do not need to be this cartoonishly strict.

1.3x is a sizable gap and that is not practically the same AP i have seen huge scaling chains not being allowed upscaling with less of a gap then that
yeah because of other abilities they get stomped they don't get AP stomped
This is literally how the site is

It would be one thing to take that as a One shot if they had the same feat scaling to its a completely different thing to try to say they stomp when the feat they scale to is lower

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The ap gap is .3, man. It’s nearly a lie to say their is a gap there to begin with. Omni man completely obliterated someone with practically the same ap. I’m not ignoring the gap, the gap is just meaningless. This one of the smallest ap gaps I’ve seen on this sight.

I’ve seen multiple matches end with characters practically getting stomped even when the gap was vastly larger.

We do not need to be this cartoonishly strict.

Pretty sure those multiple matches involved haxes and other factors so I am uncertain on whatever those matches counts for that matter.

That is fair about it being a small gap for this fight there since I was referring to those matches you mentioned.

 

[Keeweed]

I’ve seen multiple matches end with characters getting ap stomp because the characters scale to stomping what the other characters scale to. I’ve seen it dozens of times.

Also are we serious supposed to ignore everything that happens around the feats because of the numbers. Once again he completely obliterates what Mark scales to, but I’m just supposed to ignore that because there’s no number. What is even the point of stomping chains if stomps are apparently so unquantifiable that they can’t even be used to defeat a person that scales directly to the same thing you stomp to begin with?

In what universe is .3 a big gap, ignoring how Montra isn’t even .3 times stronger, I rounded upwards because .3 is still a cartoonishly small gap. Mark literally can’t do anything to Omni man but because Montra is even the slightest bit higher that’s supposed to help. If she was 2 or 3 times stronger that’s still arguable, but she’s not even .5 times stronger, she should be stomped.

 

[theultimate5105]

I’ve seen multiple matches end with characters getting ap stomp because the characters scale to stomping what the other characters scale to. I’ve seen it dozens of times.

Also are we serious supposed to ignore everything that happens around the feats because of the numbers. Once again he completely obliterates what Mark scales to, but I’m just supposed to ignore that because there’s no number. What is even the point of stomping chains if stomps are apparently so unquantifiable that they can’t even be used to defeat a person that scales directly to the same thing you stomp to begin with?

In what universe is .3 a big gap, ignoring how Montra isn’t even .3 times stronger, I rounded upwards because .3 is still a cartoonishly small gap.

.3 is not a small gap especially when you are trying to make a singular one shot try to mean they still stomp the person 1.3x stronger then them
Try upscaling a character who is 1.3x away from the nearest tier and has only 1 one shot it will never happen I have seen gaps of 1.2x being denied when tiny fractions of it are far superior to a singular one shot

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also are we serious supposed to ignore everything that happens around the feats because of the numbers. Once again he completely obliterates what Mark scales to, but I’m just supposed to ignore that because there’s no number. What is even the point of stomping chains if stomps are apparently so unquantifiable that they can’t even be used to defeat a person that scales directly to the same thing you stomp to begin with?

In what universe is .3 a big gap, ignoring how Montra isn’t even .3 times stronger, I rounded upwards because .3 is still a cartoonishly small gap. Mark literally can’t do anything to Omni man but because Montra is even the slightest bit higher that’s supposed to help. If she was 2 or 3 times stronger that’s still arguable, but she’s not even .5 times stronger, she should be stomped.

What? Isn’t a bit of a bold claim that the AP stomp will outright implied they completely stomp the other character that has the initial ap advantage while also ignoring any abilities they have to for that?
Even then, assuming the ap stomp isn’t a one shot, I do like to mention that isn’t always the cases for every matches with fictional characters.


Still we getting off topic and kinda derailing this thread as it stands.

 

[Keeweed]

I don’t know really how to properly argue this, because it’s entirely subjective. But I’ve never seen anyone call 1.3 times significant ever, and I just can’t see why it would be. Like .1 times is practically as small as you can get and .3 is barely above that, yet that’s a huge gap. When do gaps go from huge to small then, is literally any gap at all, even ones that are practically non existent, count as large gaps?

Hopefully I’m not coming off as rude, I just don’t see it. My thought process behind it doesn’t line up with yours so I just can’t connect with it. I mean I can possibly see were you are coming from, but I don’t necessarily agree.

Though it seems people have varying opinions on this overall topic, so a discussion thread on it could probably be a good idea.

Especially since we are derailing this thread.

 

[Keeweed]

“Isn’t a bit of a bold claim”

No it isn’t. Omni Man wrecks something that is practically the same. You guys make it seem like ap gaps are these mythical things that can’t be closed with context behind the feats. The gap here is tiny numbers wise, and context wise Omni Man obliterates his feat.

I would say it it’s more bold to assume such a tiny ap gap should save you from being stomped when the person with nearly the same ap can’t do anything against Omni man, but as I mentioned with my last comment. I think making a thread on this would probably be a good idea. I’ll make it later today.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

“Isn’t a bit of a bold claim”

No it isn’t. Omni Man wrecks something that is practically the same. You guys make it seem like ap gaps are these mythical things that can’t be closed with context behind the feats. The gap here is tiny numbers wise, and context wise Omni Man obliterates his feat.

I would say it it’s more bold to assume such a tiny ap gap should save you from being stomped when the person with nearly the same ap can’t do anything against Omni man, but as I mentioned with my last comment. I think making a thread on this would probably be a good idea. I’ll make it later today.

Oh, it seems I caused a misunderstanding as I did never say the gap can not been closed at all.

However, I do like to note that if the AP gap can been closed, it usually does involve the feats and how causal it is and so on and so forth.


Also usually the ap gap can been covered by any abilities that increases their ap such as reactive power level if I recall correctly.

Anyway, I not the one treating the Ap gap as the mystical cap that can’t closed.

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah sorry, I was more thinking of past conversation similar to this when I said that. Many people do think they are impossible to close and I find that weird.

 

[Dusty_Raider]

Changed to Invincible

 

[Keeweed]

Ok if that’s the case I’ll probably vote Mothra then. I’ve heard Mark upscales from his feat, but not by a large amount. Mothra’s giant size means his ap isn’t going to do much since he barely hits like 1% of her with his punches. He has to get through hundreds of feet of opponent that can survive hits of comparable ap. Meanwhile any hit she delivers is going to hit literally every part of Mark. Also if I remember correctly she has massive AoE.