• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Invincible season 3 discussion

Curious about something.

Why are we assuming Mark got magically stronger when going to Thraxa? It's very heavily implied, if not outright stated, that Mark is the same as when he fought Nolan.

When Nolan ask Mark for his help with defending Thraxa from Viltrum, Mark makes an interesting statement about his strength. He claims how can he help Nolan when he couldn't even beat him? Mark is saying his showing against Nolan is either still his same strength, or it's close enough to his current level that it doesn't matter.

I don't think Mark's showings against Thula means he should scale exactly to Nolan. Nolan, despite agreeing with Mark that he wasn't ready, believed he could defeat Thula if he stopped holding back and fought to kill. And its true, he did seemingly push Thula back and only lost because he hesitated in the end.

Anissa, who is stronger than Thula but weaker than Nolan, was able to stomp Mark easily. With actual scans of their body's strength showing that Mark had a less than 18% chance of surviving an encounter with her. Which once again proves that Mark is far weaker than Nolan at this point. Mark has no chance of beating Anissa, yet he can defeat Thula. Both of them are weaker than Nolan. I'll admit we aren't fully certain with Anissa, maybe she's equal to Nolan here, but I don't see why she'd be stronger.

There's also nothing suggesting Mark got stronger between Season 2 and 1. Actually, our rating says he got stronger in the middle of Season 2. Since Season 2 Mark got beaten to a bloody pulp by multiple Maulers, who are currently scaling to him. The only reason we have the scaling like this is because we don't want others to scale.

However, that's not a reason to assume Mark is stronger. If that's how it works, then outliers would become rare, and you can easily say someone doesn't scale to another because he was weaker/stronger. We need proof that someone is stronger. We can't say they are because we don't like the scaling.

Mark obviously scales now that we've seen his fight with Conquest, who is stronger than Nolan. However, this gives us a far better way to scale people like Mark during Season 1 and 2. It's officially stated that Mark's strength increased by 138% after his training. This means Mark in Season 1 and 2 is 2.38x weaker than his Season 3 self.

Which means Mark scales to 434.8 Gigatons of TNT (Large Island level) or 4.76 Teratons of TNT (Small Country level+) if we accept this calculation for Season 3 Mark.

Note: I'm just making a suggestion. I'm not going to make a CRT, I'm just gauging interest. Feel free to disagree, agree, or ignore me.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Why are we assuming Mark got magically stronger when going to Thraxa? It's very heavily implied, if not outright stated, that Mark is the same as when he fought Nolan.
Click to expand...
We are not assuming anything, the guy who I presume did the CRT just messed up and it slipped through like everything here

Someone already pointed out how the numbers given by the show don't make sense anyway

When Nolan ask Mark for his help with defending Thraxa from Viltrum, Mark makes an interesting statement about his strength. He claims how can he help Nolan when he couldn't even beat him? Mark is saying his showing against Nolan is either still his same strength, or it's close enough to his current level that it doesn't matter.
Click to expand...
That's just him not knowing his own strength, which is a pretty common trope. Nolan was insurmountably stronger last time they fought and he's never been put in a situation like that again

On the topic of the Maulers, at least in the comic they say he was holding back, tho admittedly his face wasn't nearly as disfigured by the end of it
image.png


All in all, this is byproduct of the "second draft" being much more inconsistent

This would all be sorted out we took into account the comic statement that viltrumites naturally get stronger with age, which the show people don't want to for some reason, and even if not present in the show that just makes sense

image.png
 
Last edited:
TheRustyOne said:
Curious about something.

Why are we assuming Mark got magically stronger when going to Thraxa? It's very heavily implied, if not outright stated, that Mark is the same as when he fought Nolan.

When Nolan ask Mark for his help with defending Thraxa from Viltrum, Mark makes an interesting statement about his strength. He claims how can he help Nolan when he couldn't even beat him? Mark is saying his showing against Nolan is either still his same strength, or it's close enough to his current level that it doesn't matter.

I don't think Mark's showings against Thula means he should scale exactly to Nolan. Nolan, despite agreeing with Mark that he wasn't ready, believed he could defeat Thula if he stopped holding back and fought to kill. And its true, he did seemingly push Thula back and only lost because he hesitated in the end.

Anissa, who is stronger than Thula but weaker than Nolan, was able to stomp Mark easily. With actual scans of their body's strength showing that Mark had a less than 18% chance of surviving an encounter with her. Which once again proves that Mark is far weaker than Nolan at this point. Mark has no chance of beating Anissa, yet he can defeat Thula. Both of them are weaker than Nolan. I'll admit we aren't fully certain with Anissa, maybe she's equal to Nolan here, but I don't see why she'd be stronger.

There's also nothing suggesting Mark got stronger between Season 2 and 1. Actually, our rating says he got stronger in the middle of Season 2. Since Season 2 Mark got beaten to a bloody pulp by multiple Maulers, who are currently scaling to him. The only reason we have the scaling like this is because we don't want others to scale.

However, that's not a reason to assume Mark is stronger. If that's how it works, then outliers would become rare, and you can easily say someone doesn't scale to another because he was weaker/stronger. We need proof that someone is stronger. We can't say they are because we don't like the scaling.

Mark obviously scales now that we've seen his fight with Conquest, who is stronger than Nolan. However, this gives us a far better way to scale people like Mark during Season 1 and 2. It's officially stated that Mark's strength increased by 138% after his training. This means Mark in Season 1 and 2 is 2.38x weaker than his Season 3 self.

Which means Mark scales to 434.8 Gigatons of TNT (Large Island level) or 4.76 Teratons of TNT (Small Country level+) if we accept this calculation for Season 3 Mark.

Note: I'm just making a suggestion. I'm not going to make a CRT, I'm just gauging interest. Feel free to disagree, agree, or ignore me.
Click to expand...
Check the thread I just made. NGL it adds to this
 
TheRustyOne said:
Curious about something.

Why are we assuming Mark got magically stronger when going to Thraxa? It's very heavily implied, if not outright stated, that Mark is the same as when he fought Nolan.

When Nolan ask Mark for his help with defending Thraxa from Viltrum, Mark makes an interesting statement about his strength. He claims how can he help Nolan when he couldn't even beat him? Mark is saying his showing against Nolan is either still his same strength, or it's close enough to his current level that it doesn't matter.

I don't think Mark's showings against Thula means he should scale exactly to Nolan. Nolan, despite agreeing with Mark that he wasn't ready, believed he could defeat Thula if he stopped holding back and fought to kill. And its true, he did seemingly push Thula back and only lost because he hesitated in the end.

Anissa, who is stronger than Thula but weaker than Nolan, was able to stomp Mark easily. With actual scans of their body's strength showing that Mark had a less than 18% chance of surviving an encounter with her. Which once again proves that Mark is far weaker than Nolan at this point. Mark has no chance of beating Anissa, yet he can defeat Thula. Both of them are weaker than Nolan. I'll admit we aren't fully certain with Anissa, maybe she's equal to Nolan here, but I don't see why she'd be stronger.

There's also nothing suggesting Mark got stronger between Season 2 and 1. Actually, our rating says he got stronger in the middle of Season 2. Since Season 2 Mark got beaten to a bloody pulp by multiple Maulers, who are currently scaling to him. The only reason we have the scaling like this is because we don't want others to scale.

However, that's not a reason to assume Mark is stronger. If that's how it works, then outliers would become rare, and you can easily say someone doesn't scale to another because he was weaker/stronger. We need proof that someone is stronger. We can't say they are because we don't like the scaling.

Mark obviously scales now that we've seen his fight with Conquest, who is stronger than Nolan. However, this gives us a far better way to scale people like Mark during Season 1 and 2. It's officially stated that Mark's strength increased by 138% after his training. This means Mark in Season 1 and 2 is 2.38x weaker than his Season 3 self.

Which means Mark scales to 434.8 Gigatons of TNT (Large Island level) or 4.76 Teratons of TNT (Small Country level+) if we accept this calculation for Season 3 Mark.

Note: I'm just making a suggestion. I'm not going to make a CRT, I'm just gauging interest. Feel free to disagree, agree, or ignore me.
Click to expand...
I don't like the scaling chains you're making though, I think we can get EXTREME incosistencies with this.

Also, no, he does get stronger between season 1 and season 2. We know viltrumites get stronger as they age, and Mark is aging rapidly between seasons 1 and 2. Aging gets slower as they age, so they actually get stronger slower as they age (hence Omni-Man is almost static, while Mark goes from fodder to hype).
 
GyroNutz said:
Very cool recent episode.

Semi-related, why is the Immortal still ranked as Low 6-B? It's clear that he's massively outclassed by the top tiers in the verse.
  • He's been easily killed by Low 6-B characters consistently. Both Omni-Man kills were basically one-shots once he landed a clean hit, and the alternate Omni-Man cut through him like paper.
  • Alternate Invincible crushed Immortal's head easily, who chronologically should be around season 2 levels, and in the latest episode
    Mark easily ripped Immortal's head off once he started trying.
  • Season 2 Invincible states and proves that he is stronger and faster than the Immortal, and he himself is far below Omni-Man himself (though in that case the backscaling is sort of acceptable). We also have recent proof where the Immortal has a somewhat even fight with a Mauler twin, while start of season 2 Invincible was able to beat numerous of them before being overwhelmed, and Oliver easily one-shot them.
  • Immortal was unable to harm Allen with any of his attacks except an eye poke, with Allen being comparable to
    high ranking viltrumites/Omni-Man. Even if Allen was holding back vs Omni-Man's executioner, he still admits he could have been killed by that viltrumite
  • The Immortal's best showings are in scenarios where he has significant advantages. In the initial Guardians fight, he loses a 7v1 and by the time he can draw blood with his attacks, Omni-Man is already restrained and weakened from Red Rush's assault, who hit him hundreds of times. In the episode 7 fight, Omni-Man is fatigued and distracted with Mark's fight with the monster, and the only lasting damage that Immortal deals is, again, an eye poke. Also, despite how we usually scale things, Invincible is very liberal with blood splatter and I don't think it's that concrete to be used for scaling.
Click to expand...
There's currently a CRT tackling that
 
My suggestion is still just doing

Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3


Season 1 being the mountain feat

Season 2 being scaled down from S3

And S3 scaling to whatever feat works best. Could be the Mauler explosion. Could be the Immortal explosions. Could be scaling to Conquest who is superior to Omniman.
 
The keys should just take mark at his peak in each season.

That's the only format I agree with. If y'all choose something different then whatever though.
 
Phoenks said:
The keys should just take mark at his peak in each season.

That's the only format I agree with. If y'all choose something different then whatever though.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't be whatever, it should be that way. The way it currently is implies he got some kind of power boost in Thraxa
 
Phoenks said:
My suggestion is still just doing

Season 1 | Season 2 | Season 3


Season 1 being the mountain feat

Season 2 being scaled down from S3

And S3 scaling to whatever feat works best. Could be the Mauler explosion. Could be the Immortal explosions. Could be scaling to Conquest who is superior to Omniman.
Click to expand...
NGL, it's gonna be funny though cause Invincible is clearly like far weaker in terms of his normal AP compared to conquest, but using his anger and adrenaline, he can push his own body to punching to his level.

He hurts himself than he hurts Conquest at points, but the fact that his muscles are strong enough to break Conquest's hand obviously means something. It's honestly like, enraged Mark ~< Conquest >~ Omni-Man, so enraged S3 Mark should be ~< Omni Man

I'm also not super sure about scaling down season 2 from season 3, but it seems reasonable.

ReturnofKhadz said:
There are larger time gaps within S2 itself than EoS2 to BoS3. I think I highlighted it in this thread not too long ago. You can’t scale back S2 Mark as a whole from 2.38x thing. BoS2 Mark was likely quite close to EoS1 levels, since only a month had passed. There are several multi-month time jumps after that
Click to expand...
You would literally have to concede that "quite close" is unquantifiable in the grand scheme of things, and hence it can't be used.

Tahoy49574 said:
That was debunked by the staff itself

image.png
Click to expand...
This level of powerscaler brainrot is why I don't consider myself a part of the larger community. Anyone should be intuitively able to figure out it was via bombs, and not the Immortal being a nuclear machine.

GyroNutz said:
Very cool recent episode.

Semi-related, why is the Immortal still ranked as Low 6-B? It's clear that he's massively outclassed by the top tiers in the verse.
  • He's been easily killed by Low 6-B characters consistently. Both Omni-Man kills were basically one-shots once he landed a clean hit, and the alternate Omni-Man cut through him like paper.
  • Alternate Invincible crushed Immortal's head easily, who chronologically should be around season 2 levels, and in the latest episode
    Mark easily ripped Immortal's head off once he started trying.
  • Season 2 Invincible states and proves that he is stronger and faster than the Immortal, and he himself is far below Omni-Man himself (though in that case the backscaling is sort of acceptable). We also have recent proof where the Immortal has a somewhat even fight with a Mauler twin, while start of season 2 Invincible was able to beat numerous of them before being overwhelmed, and Oliver easily one-shot them.
  • Immortal was unable to harm Allen with any of his attacks except an eye poke, with Allen being comparable to
    high ranking viltrumites/Omni-Man. Even if Allen was holding back vs Omni-Man's executioner, he still admits he could have been killed by that viltrumite
  • The Immortal's best showings are in scenarios where he has significant advantages. In the initial Guardians fight, he loses a 7v1 and by the time he can draw blood with his attacks, Omni-Man is already restrained and weakened from Red Rush's assault, who hit him hundreds of times. In the episode 7 fight, Omni-Man is fatigued and distracted with Mark's fight with the monster, and the only lasting damage that Immortal deals is, again, an eye poke. Also, despite how we usually scale things, Invincible is very liberal with blood splatter and I don't think it's that concrete to be used for scaling.
Click to expand...
I thought about addressing this myself.
 
Last edited:
Guacamolefletcher said:
This level of powerscaler brainrot is why I don't consider myself a part of the larger community. Anyone should be intuitively able to figure out it was via bombs, and not the Immortal being a nuclear machine.
Click to expand...
To be fair, the desire of that feat being done by Immortal stems from wanting him to have anything other than dubious scaling and getting beat up
You would literally have to concede that "quite close" is unquantifiable in the grand scheme of things, and hence it can't be used.
Click to expand...
The unquantifiable increase of Mark's strength is why the Maulers have an "At least" tho ?
 
Last edited:
Guacamolefletcher said:
I'm also not super sure about scaling down season 2 from season 3, but it seems reasonable.
Click to expand...
If we take Mark at the peak of Season 2, it would be right before the training time-skip of S3. I think it would be reasonable to downscale him from that 2.38x amp he got.

Guacamolefletcher said:
He hurts himself than he hurts Conquest at points, but the fact that his muscles are strong enough to break Conquest's hand obviously means something. It's honestly like, enraged Mark ~< Conquest >~ Omni-Man, so enraged S3 Mark should be ~< Omni Man
Click to expand...
Mark will definitely scale down from Conquest, but it is the fact that he is relative whatsoever that matters.

In S1 he could barely move back his Father, and in S2 he was getting low-diffed by Anissa (while she was holding back), so it seems relevant this time that he's able to stand his ground even a little bit.
 
I heard a theory that the Immortal gets weaker every time he dies, IDK what ya'll think. I think if they revealed this, it would make sense, and I think there is a legitimate case to be made that his neck is a weak point because it's been cut so many times, and it might heal back weaker

HOWEVER, I do think that the Immortal is partly seen as weaker than he is because of his place as a jobber in the series. He is that guy that's stronger than anyone else in the guardians, but they make him job to show how strong the opponents are
 
Last edited:
Guacamolefletcher said:
I heard a theory that the Immortal gets weaker every time he dies, IDK what ya'll think. I think if they revealed this, it would make sense, and I think there is a legitimate case to be made that his neck is a weak point because it's been cut so many times, and it doesn't reveal
Click to expand...
Lmfao
 
Guys, the Allen the Alien calcs are obviously flawed. That amount of dust would partly hit the earth, being completely catastrophic on the people living there
 
Tahoy49574 said:
Could we give one of the evil Marks a profile to make the Atom Eve vs Invincible match ?
Click to expand...
Some do have some notable scaling, others are a nothing burger entirely. It should be noted that they don’t inherently scale to Mark in season 3 just because they’re an alternate version
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Some do have some notable scaling, others are a nothing burger entirely. It should be noted that they don’t inherently scale to Mark in season 3 just because they’re an alternate version
Click to expand...
Excellence616 said:
Nope. They had a very short appearance. If they get some appearance next season then yes
Click to expand...
Eve also doesn't scale to Mark so far and doesn't have a TV profie, I'm obviously talking comic-wise
 
Last edited:
TheRustyOne said:
Curious about something.

Why are we assuming Mark got magically stronger when going to Thraxa? It's very heavily implied, if not outright stated, that Mark is the same as when he fought Nolan.

When Nolan ask Mark for his help with defending Thraxa from Viltrum, Mark makes an interesting statement about his strength. He claims how can he help Nolan when he couldn't even beat him? Mark is saying his showing against Nolan is either still his same strength, or it's close enough to his current level that it doesn't matter.

I don't think Mark's showings against Thula means he should scale exactly to Nolan. Nolan, despite agreeing with Mark that he wasn't ready, believed he could defeat Thula if he stopped holding back and fought to kill. And its true, he did seemingly push Thula back and only lost because he hesitated in the end.

Anissa, who is stronger than Thula but weaker than Nolan, was able to stomp Mark easily. With actual scans of their body's strength showing that Mark had a less than 18% chance of surviving an encounter with her. Which once again proves that Mark is far weaker than Nolan at this point. Mark has no chance of beating Anissa, yet he can defeat Thula. Both of them are weaker than Nolan. I'll admit we aren't fully certain with Anissa, maybe she's equal to Nolan here, but I don't see why she'd be stronger.

There's also nothing suggesting Mark got stronger between Season 2 and 1. Actually, our rating says he got stronger in the middle of Season 2. Since Season 2 Mark got beaten to a bloody pulp by multiple Maulers, who are currently scaling to him. The only reason we have the scaling like this is because we don't want others to scale.

However, that's not a reason to assume Mark is stronger. If that's how it works, then outliers would become rare, and you can easily say someone doesn't scale to another because he was weaker/stronger. We need proof that someone is stronger. We can't say they are because we don't like the scaling.

Mark obviously scales now that we've seen his fight with Conquest, who is stronger than Nolan. However, this gives us a far better way to scale people like Mark during Season 1 and 2. It's officially stated that Mark's strength increased by 138% after his training. This means Mark in Season 1 and 2 is 2.38x weaker than his Season 3 self.

Which means Mark scales to 434.8 Gigatons of TNT (Large Island level) or 4.76 Teratons of TNT (Small Country level+) if we accept this calculation for Season 3 Mark.

Note: I'm just making a suggestion. I'm not going to make a CRT, I'm just gauging interest. Feel free to disagree, agree, or ignore me.
Click to expand...
You've calculated a lot of stuff already, could you help with the Invincible meteor-throwing feat since you're the one who rejected it and also dismissed it should be removed ?
 
vsbattles.com

Conquest vs Control

Conquest vs Control Conquest (Invincible) VS Makima (Chainsaw Man) Stand ready for my arrival, worm: Your necessary evil... is just an excuse to justify your own crimes: Context: Cecil Stedman realizes Earth is in danger once Conquest, one of the most feared Viltrumites shows up with...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Am I the only one confused by how Tech Jacket kills Mustache Mark?


How did he die here? He looks like he just broke his fingers or whatever, but we've seen Mark stay alive after way more damage. Maybe he was knocked out and drowned unconscious in space? I honestly have no idea.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Am I the only one confused by how Tech Jacket kills Mustache Mark?


How did he die here? He looks like he just broke his fingers or whatever, but we've seen Mark stay alive after way more damage. Maybe he was knocked out and drowned unconscious in space? I honestly have no idea.
Click to expand...

drowned?he probably died without oxygen
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ThePrimalHunter
The Immortal vs Invincible But Something's Off (Adam Pixton vs Mark Grayson) (GRACE)
Replies
9
Views
2K
ThePrimalHunter
ThePrimalHunter
HakutoRei000
Invincible vs Adventurer (Iruna online vs Invincible) [0-0-0]
Replies
0
Views
510
HakutoRei000
HakutoRei000
The_Renegade_Slugger
  • Locked
Kregg isn't a Half-Viltrumite | Invincible (TV Series) Weakness Cleanup
Replies
9
Views
1K
The_Renegade_Slugger
The_Renegade_Slugger
InfinityUltron
Invincible TV Series : The Immortal Upgrade [Need MODS]
Replies
26
Views
2K
InfinityUltron
InfinityUltron
FuriousFieryFist
Invincible TV Series Changes + More Comic Changes (Just 1 staff vote needed)
2
Replies
68
Views
9K
Pyro9278
Pyro9278
Back
Top