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Invader Zim stuff

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Eficiente

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Quoting from here.

>"Performed enough sit-ups to damage reality"

Given that the next thing said after them doing "a hole in reality" is that they're "outside the multiverse" said hole can just be what made them be outside the multiverse. Because context. For this scan to matter the hole needs to make so much damage to reality that it's Low 2-C, and that has no evidence at all, it's a headcanon.

>"and punch a hole outside the universe"

The text in the profile is just what I said above, he should have [[Dimensional Travel]], portal creation too if you take a hole as one, but ''why'' is this hole outside the universe a Low 2-C thing? Are we using that dumb theory about dimensions we had before we updated our Tiering?

The scan says that their conflict could spread to every universe but never going into detail about what that would do. That range it's even contradicted in the next scan.

>"which would continue to spread around the universe"

I can see this being 3-A, it's a wave slightly smaller than a universe said that would spread around the universe, but ''why'' Low 2-C? A timeline isn't being destroyed or significantly affected, we even saw in the last scan how inside those universes they were specific points in time, we need to go by the rules the verse gave us without implementing new things.
 
Are they? This new forum stuff surpassed my ability to care about reading every single new wall of info about it.
 
Yeah, I believe so. All the other CRT threads that I see on here are currently locked. I'm guessing because the initial stages of the forum move have yet to be completed.
 
Yes, CRTs are still under lockdown for the time being.

There will also be one CRT thread per verse when the time comes. If your verse requires multiple CRTs, please bring them all to that one thread to prevent our forums from being spammed/clogged up.
 
I unlocked this and it's my first priority. This sh*t was added when CRTs weren't allowed and not discussed when points against it were brought.
 
I don't exactly have any opinions on this yet, but I'm pretty sure it was Bambu who proposed the idea of Zim being Low 2-C. Shall I get him to discuss this topic?

Oh and by the way, I know this thread is about downgrading one of Zim's prep time equipment, but would it be fine if I were to propose a couple of abilities for both Zim and GIR?
 
Alrighty, just contacted Bambu.

Now we shall wait. I'll bring up the abilities after a verdict has been reached for the Low 2-C reasoning.
 
Heya. I was fairly neutral to the whole thing, but I will state my thoughts on the subject.

Firstly, as a wiki I believe it is a common notion that destroying and damaging a universe are both Low 2-C. A hole seems fairly plain and simply Low 2-C to me and would, in my opinion, need context to say the opposite- that reality is not being somehow damaged by having a hole ripped in it. It's not related to dimensions as you put it, I just put two and two together and at the time people seemed to agree, though IIRC most folks stopped responding (such is the way of CRTs).

As for the "spread around the universe" thing, I considered this to be odd wording potentially meaning a couple things. That the hole would expand, that they used multiverse and universe interchangeably (no idea why they'd do it, but I've seen weirder phenomena in the past), etc. A timeline isn't being affected, I suppose, but a universe in total is- specifically the barrier that separates "universe" from "outside universe".

When CRTs are allowed, I don't really have a dog in the fight of whether they stay Low 2-C or not. I see my points as valid but don't particularly think yours are less valid.

That is all.
 
I unlocked it right when CRTs were allowed.
Firstly, as a wiki I believe it is a common notion that destroying and damaging a universe are both Low 2-C. A hole seems fairly plain and simply Low 2-C to me and would, in my opinion, need context to say the opposite- that reality is not being somehow damaged by having a hole ripped in it. It's not related to dimensions as you put it, I just put two and two together and at the time people seemed to agree, though IIRC most folks stopped responding (such is the way of CRTs).

As for the "spread around the universe" thing, I considered this to be odd wording potentially meaning a couple things. That the hole would expand, that they used multiverse and universe interchangeably (no idea why they'd do it, but I've seen weirder phenomena in the past), etc. A timeline isn't being affected, I suppose, but a universe in total is- specifically the barrier that separates "universe" from "outside universe".
Well, no, destroying a universe isn't Low 2-C, let alone damaging it. I pointed out the context saying the opposite right there, just after saying "you created a hole in reality" "you are now outside the multiverse" is said, the hole in reality isn't an AP feat, just a figurative way to talk about a portal being used. Their stuff was also yet to spread around the universe, and I don't even need opposite context for a hole in reality not being Low 2-C, a hole on anything isn't the same as destroying the whole thing where the hole is.

Idk what to say for the second paragraph.
 
"Well, no, destroying a universe isn't Low 2-C, let alone damaging it."

This is an extremely fascinating point of view, given that the tier is called Universe level+, and given that the + merely separates it from 3-A, which includes destroying everything actually inside the universe. Extremely fascinating indeed. I don't see evidence of a portal, though. Only that they literally tore a hole in reality. So yeah. You'd need context to say "it was a portal, not them literally damaging their way outside of the universe".

I dunno what to tell you, either. Destroying a universe isn't universe level. Incredible.
 
In the context of the scan too they created a hole so powerful in reality they went to a plane with the abs who exist beyond the cosmic mechanics of the universe, so it seems far more like it's meant to be a strength feat then a portal feat.
 
Aye, that is my interpretation as well.
 
"Well, no, destroying a universe isn't Low 2-C, let alone damaging it."

This is an extremely fascinating point of view, given that the tier is called Universe level+, and given that the + merely separates it from 3-A, which includes destroying everything actually inside the universe. Extremely fascinating indeed. I don't see evidence of a portal, though. Only that they literally tore a hole in reality. So yeah. You'd need context to say "it was a portal, not them literally damaging their way outside of the universe".

I dunno what to tell you, either. Destroying a universe isn't universe level. Incredible.
No need for that attitude. I could just make a CRT asking to recall Universe level+ into Timeline level, I may as well ask to move Multiverse level and Multiverse level+ into the same letter after their "2-", and make a less fancy and intertretable way to explain certain tiers. Universe and reality can be as in timeline, but also as just universe. The smaller take on the meaning of it takes less assumptions. I didn't say "Destroying a universe isn't universe level" I legit said that I could see it being 3-A, but not Low 2-C as that needs evidence, it's not the other way around. I don't see on-panel the hole in reality you do, and what happened to reality after this would-be Low 2-C feat happened in it?
 
I have no idea what you're saying.

Damaging a universe is universe level. That is the reason for its name. You're claiming this is a case of Portal Creation with no evidence, which is roughly where I'd put my foot down and say "it really isn't". What happened here is that the two literally tore a hole in reality via strength, and reached the outside- this is beyond 3-A, as 3-A is reserved to purely three-dimensional potency. The actual structure of the universe is not within that boundary.

I'm not saying you need to provide evidence contrary to mine. I'm saying you need to prove it's portal creation if that's what you're gunning for. My proof is in the pudding. As for "I don't see on-panel the hole in reality you do"... bruh.
 
Damaging a universe is universe level. That is the reason for its name. You're claiming this is a case of Portal Creation with no evidence, which is roughly where I'd put my foot down and say "it really isn't". What happened here is that the two literally tore a hole in reality via strength, and reached the outside- this is beyond 3-A, as 3-A is reserved to purely three-dimensional potency. The actual structure of the universe is not within that boundary.

I'm not saying you need to provide evidence contrary to mine. I'm saying you need to prove it's portal creation if that's what you're gunning for. My proof is in the pudding. As for "I don't see on-panel the hole in reality you do"... bruh.
You can damage something without a power = to what's needed to destroy it. If you don't like the evidence then good but there is evidence, that being the context on what was said right after it, how they were yet to spread around the universe what they were doing despite having done said would-be Low 2-C hole, how we don't see the hole and I also asked what happened to their reality after their would-be Low 2-C feat happened in it, if it was a Low 2-C feat then I guess it almost destroyed everything or something, or maybe nothing happened. Who's to say the structure of the universe being destroyed isn't just 3-A? It is the universe, after all. No need to even say "the actual structure of the universe", that's needlessly fancy, those are universes, they made them like muscles, if you spread something around one you're spreading something around a universe and I would assume by context that if you go inside 1 you would go into a set point in time on it. So why would we need to make up that they're all the time of their timelines being compiled on 1 structure? That's on us, not the story.

What am I supposed to see on the panel? I see the universes, the space between them, some other stuff and nothing more. I see no hole in a universe, no damage being done.
 
As Giver of the Peace says, the scan says something explicitly. Either you didn't bother to actually read the scan, or didn't care. Damaging a Low 2-C in a significant way is a Low 2-C feat in the same way that damaging a 5-C in a significant way is a 5-C feat. This is a well-known fact, or at least I had assumed it was well known.

Their conflict punched a hole outside of the universe. As far as I know, their universe had time. It's a Low 2-C feat.
 
My apologies Bambu, but Eficiente is most likely correct in this case. Simply making a small hole in a universe is unquantifiable, and the entire timeline/continuum has to be destroyed in order to qualify for Low 2-C.
 
My apologies Bambu, but Eficiente is most likely correct in this case. Simply making a small hole in a universe is unquantifiable, and the entire timeline/continuum has to be destroyed in order to qualify for Low 2-C.
Ant, in context their punch was so powerful it allowed them to ascend up to a realm beyond the cosmic mechanics of the multiverse and it was going to spread across the universe.
 
Well, unless it destroyed the entire continuum in one blow, it doesn't seem quantifiable.
 
Okay, but gradually spreading across the universe is not the same as quickly (or at all) encompassing all of it and destroying the entire timeline/continuum.
 
According to the muscles here their sit ups are so powerful it was going to spread to every universe (in which there are infinite of) so this shows it is most definitely quickly encompassing all of the universe:

The muscle dudes were even begging them to stop.
 
Okay then. I suppose that seems more reliable, but it may just be an unquantifiable range feat unless it was specified that a universe or many universes were going to be destroyed.
 
Seeing as they were using power and that they were creating holes in reality, I think it's safe to assume destruction, especially since the muscle dudes were begging them to stop because of what they could do to the universe.
 
Well, it seems uncertain. A "possibly" is likely safer to use in this case.
 
It was listed as "At best" on his profile, is that fine or should it be replaced with possibly?

Edit: Nevermind that was for his bomb weapon, possibly is good for me.
 
My apologies Bambu, but Eficiente is most likely correct in this case. Simply making a small hole in a universe is unquantifiable, and the entire timeline/continuum has to be destroyed in order to qualify for Low 2-C.
Like I said in the beginning of this thread, I don't see myself as having a dog in this fight. I just think Eficiente is wrong in his evaluation.
 
Well, it seems like we have agreed to a compromise solution to use "possibly" instead.

An improved explanation for the feat might be a good idea as well.
 
That grammar is not correct. Something like the following might work better, although it isn't perfect either.

"Possibly at least Universe level+ over time (He performed enough sit-ups to damage reality. The effects would continue to spread throughout the universe, and it was stated that if they would continue, all universes would be destroyed.)"
 
I think that we should wait for input from @Eficiente first.
 
The hole is still something that happened to put them outside of the multiverse, not a damage to reality as it's being portrayed. There definitely was going to be some damage for what they were doing, but it comes out of us to say that the multiverse was going to be destroyed, let alone was this stated. It's also a bit contradictory, the 2° page we have says that their stuff could spread to every universe, but then on the 3° page when they do their sit-ups, it's only said to spread on the entire universe. We can say that this was poorly worded as it was done above, but we can also say that it is a contradiction coming from the fancy terminology used (I mean on the same page Jefft says he exists beyond the comic mechanics of the universe and that everyone is outside the multiverse), what happened on the next pages of the comic?

I could say again why I believe the thing in the 1° page is a Dimensional Travel thing and not AP but this just goes in circles, some third opinions should be called to read this and say what they make of it. It doesn't matter if they know the verse or not.
 
Um, the scan directly shows that universe = every universe. Idk how that's "contradictory" that's just a conntative definition.

Also universe and multiverse are being used interchangeably, SVTFOE has a similar thing.
 
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