Improvements for the Range page?

[Antvasima]

Hello.

I would like to ask if anybody in the staff has some suggestions regarding how we could improve the (mostly empty) Range page?

Similarly to Intelligence, we would have to make any listed terms into suggestions only, as we do not have the time and energy for any massive wiki revision projects right now.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I think that including common things like the average range of assault rifle, sniper rifle and a hand gun as it's quite commonly used. Other ranges I've found common include things like:

• Planetery
• Galactic
• Universal

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Planetary, Stellar, Galactic, Universal, Multi-Universal and on are very common and easy to define


I think that the problem would be with lower ranges

 

[Antvasima]

Have the OBD or ACF developed any useful standards?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, one of the main problems is that we have no set standard for characters that can teleport between different universes, or pocket-universes. Should we even count this as range, given that it is not attack-related, and if so, what should we call it?

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Well maybe we should have an explanation that talks about combat range (maximum effective range of a weapon) and travel range (maximum range that a vehicle and/or device can travel)

 

[Darkness552]

we should keep teleportation out of it unless a character is able to teleport an attack otherwise there would be an inflated amount of profiles with universal to multi universal range

ill come up with a suggestion when i am online later

EDIT: going to have trouble thinking of anything below planetary

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Some of the Dragon Ball profiles will have to be adjusted to not include teleportation then.

 

[Antvasima]

Outskirts Battle Dome. A similar wiki to our own.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I somewhat edited the Range page to clarify that teleportation should not count.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

we could use things like planetary, galactic, inter-galactic, universal, multi-universal and multiversal, followed by extra spatial dimensions for range

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I think Teleportation can stay, as long as the page clarifies its via Teleportation (I.E: "Can Teleport on a Planetary Scale). If not, then the Xiaolin Showdown pages would have be updated as well since they have Planetary Teleportation.

Continental for being able to affect most of a planet but not all of it and Intergalactic for effecting multiple galaxies but not quite universal could also be added to the ones people suggested. I also tend to use Townwide, Citywide and Countrywide, but I suppose those are all a bit to variable to put on profiles.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

^ Isn't this a staff discussion thread?

Anyway, I think it would be nice if we could (as people stated above) clarify that combat/attack range and travel/teleportation range are completely different.

Also, about @DanFlsamual21's suggestion, I don't think that would be feasible. If we did establish such a system, we would have to go about 10,000+ pages and edit the range for all of them. Plus it would just overly complicate things for something that should be relatively simple and to the point. Saying a characters has a range of 'so many metres' or 'so many kilometres' or 'so many lightyears' or 'galactic' or 'universal' is simple enough and to the point. No need to go and make it convoluted.

 

[Promestein]

Planetary - Interplanetary - Stellar - Interstellar - Galactic - Intergalactic - Universal - etc. seems pretty obvious and simple to me. Those lower than it are a bit more of an issue; it might just be better to say 'meters' and 'kilometers' and such. I also think we should still specify teleportation range, as even if they don't teleport attacks, that range can still prove useful; and we're not just about fights, anyways.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that by that logic we would, for example, have to update every single shinigami page in Bleach to have Multi-Universal range. It tends to give very exaggerated results.

Btw, DaFritzi sent me a post with some suggestions:

"Since I can't post on a staff thread I decided to write you a message.

For short distances:

Melee (Fists, Legs), Extended Melee (Swords), Nearby Surroundings (up to 100m), Extended Surroundings (up to 1km)

Longer distances:

Town (diameter of a town, up to 10km), City (diameter of a city), Island (...), Country, Continent

Astronomic Ranges and above:

Planet (20.000km, half perimeter of earth), Large Planet (220.000km, half perimeter of jupiter), Stellar (2.185.000km, half perimeter of the sun), Solar System (1.25x10^(-3)ly, diameter of our solar system with Pluto), Multi Solar System (4.37 ly, distance to aplha centauri), Galactic (110.000/140.000 ly, diameter Milky Way/Andromeda), Multi Galaxy (2.56 million ly, distance to andromeda), Universal (93 billion ly, diameter of the observable universe), Universal+ (any higher distance to infinite 3D range), Multi-Universal (able to reach into another universe), Multiversal (able to reach everywhere in the multiverse), Hyperversal (able to reach into higher dimensions), Outerversal, True Infinity

Remarks:

Instead of lenghts, I think it is better to give an area in which any point can be reach from any other point using an attack.

Maybe something between Extended Melee and Nearby Surroundings could be added.

Maybe it should be differentiated between travel distance and attack distance, this however would be a lot of work. I think that attack distance is more important, as travel distance is somewhat covered by the speed stat and otherwise hardly important for vs-battles.

For astronomic ranges I have used the half perimeter because an attack can reach everywhere on said planet if it has half the planets perimeter as range.

Of course the exact diameters for towns, cities, etc. are up to you guys.

Astronomical distances are rounded."

 

[Promestein]

Just say "Whatever, Multi-Universal with teleportation". It doesn't have to be a project. They're not inflated. It clearly says that they can only do it with teleportation.

DaFritzi's suggestion seems pretty fine to me, but the workload is too massive to really make this into a doable project.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I agree with Promstein here, while the above information is useful, it would take too long to implement this to all profiles.

Could this just be a thing for new profiles instead?

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Prom sums up my thoughts on it on it.

DaFritzi's response seems mostly solid too, but like Prom said, it be to much work for a project. As a guideline for future pages it should be fine.

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not particularly keen on naming ranges "Nearby Surroundings", "Town", and other measurements. They're not particularly exact or easily visualized and are quite confusing in my opinion.

I have no problems with planetary, stellar, and other, larger measurements suggested above, since they provide a much better picture overall than "town".

 

[Soldier_Blue]

^ My thoughts exactly @Reppuzan

 

[Antvasima]

Well, much like for the Intelligence page, any structure that we place on the range page would only be a suggestion, not a wiki-project.

Anyway, is the consensus that we should allow teleportation to be included in the range statistic, as long as it is clarified within the prifile that this is what is intended?

 

[Reppuzan]

Yes, I believe the consensus is that specific abilities should have ranges specified if they're not regular attacks.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

^ I definitely agree with the teleportation thing. It should be explicitly stated and differentiated from combat/attack range.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will modify the Range page. You can tell me whether or not you think that it is appropriate.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Also, one of the main problems is that we have no set standard for characters that can teleport between different universes, of pocket-universes. Should we even count this as range, given that it is not attack-related, and if so, what should we call it?

Hop does not know if there is an appropriate term for it, but if we already have things like "battlefield removal" then we acknowledge in most cases characters in VS and non-VS instances must have some form of "battlefield range" as opposed to attack range.

For instance there's numerous real life and fiction examples, especially when we want to put Standard Equipment into play. Radars (heat sensors in real life, and in fiction, Call of Duty has a heatbeat sensor), telekinetic powers, metaphysical abilities and other methods can be used for a character to be aware of enemies or other things in their vicinity, as opposed as them being close enough for them to attack they person/thing they sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I modified the page earlier. You can check if it is acceptable.

I also asked DontTalk for help with developing an appropriate distance scale, but he has not replied yet.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hop was thinking if we do what we do with speed and have two substats. Attack Range, and Effective/Power/Ability Range, for non offensive or hax abilities. Hop will also compose a small list of ranges just to help get ideas flowing.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It will still only have to be suggestions though. It is not realistic to start a massive revision project for something like this.

 

[Reppuzan]

About Hop's suggestion, we usually already do that to some extent or another (X with melee attacks, Y with magic e.t.c.). I think that making it a rule to distinguish between them would be more prudent than implementing separate sub-sections.

However, establishing some of the benchmark measurements (i.e. Planetary, Stellar, Universal) as part of an official scale would be helpful.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems reasonable, yes.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hop agrees with what he said.

Maybe we can have a definitive range.

Hop suggests we have two at the very low end.

Contact (Must be physically touching)

Melee (Standard Human Melee range, i.e. 1 meter)

And of course the self explanatory ones like planetary and the like are their own scale. Dunno, just a suggestion.

 

[Antvasima]

I am not so sure about that. Stating that the ranges of combat-related and non-combat related abilities should be mentioned as separate is probably sufficient.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Why differentiate between Contact and Melee? Aren't they the same thing?

 

[Antvasima]

I think so, yes.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Contact would be directly touching, no space in between. It is combative or non combative. For instance an acidic or fire based attacker/user would likely have to make direct contact unless they throw fire balls or something.

Melee implies space existing between and the user moving a humanly feasible distance (like a leg is around one meter, and most people can kick) to ultilize their AP or other powers.

Any further I dont know how to describe in other senses. I'd propose non combat related ranges or abilities should be mentioned in the notable attacks/techniques section, and explained, such as Ki sensing in Dragonball.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@Hop

Direct contact is still melee though. Now you're confusing me.

 

[Antvasima]

I still think that we should simply distinguish between combat-oriented range, and transportation range via teleportation, and similar.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

^ Without a doubt.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Standard melee range (ranges from 1 to 3 meters)

• Applies to fighters using mostly their arms and legs as weapons
• Knives/daggers, gauntlets, and short-ranged weapons would qualify for this range.

Extended melee range (ranges from 3 to 10 meters)

• Applies to fighters who are able to reach further ahead due to being larger than the average, or fighters who are able to extend their limbs further (Ex: Dhalsim)
• Sword/sabers, polearms/spears, and explosives such as a thrown grenade would qualify for this range as well.

Decameters (ranges from 10 to 100 meters)

• Applies to fighters who are much larger than normal (Ex: Giant mecha, Kaiju, etc.)
• Most giant mecha are around 10 to 100 metres in height, thus their reach should be around there via melee.
• The distance of how far you can accurate hit something via slingshot

Hectometers (ranges from 100 to 1000 meters)

• The distance that you can reach with a bow & arrow/crossbow
• The distance that you can perceive without a scope; average firing range

Kilometers (ranges from 1 km to 10 km)

Tens of Kilometers (ranges from 10 km to 100 km)

Hundreds of Kilometers (ranges from 100 km to 1000 km)

Thousands of Kilometers (ranges from 1000 km to 15329 km)

Planetary (ranges from 15329 km to 439264 km)

• The circumference of Mercury is 15329 km, meaning that is the distance if one to go all the way around from one end of Mercury to the other.
• The distance from the Earth to the Moon is 384400 km
• 439264 km is the circumference of Jupiter. That is the distance if one to go all the way around from one end of Jupiter to the other.

Here is a guide that I wrote from standard melee, all the way to planetary. Work in progress, but will be filled in soon.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Lina's proposal is sound, however Hop disagrees with the mid range. It feels superfluous. Pasted extended melee, there has to be a system that works for mid distances that can work for human and vehicle/weapon profiles. Some superhuman characters have great range like Green Lantern, or Alex Mercer. And of course the countless fictional weapons and attacks like energy waves in Dragon Ball. Maybe Hop would advise something like the SI system instead of the US Customary. Another suggestion would be to reduce the number of ranges between melee and tectonic ranges.

• Above Human [working name] (farther than 10 meters, to a range that is unreachable with firearms or conventional superpowers)
• Far reaching [working name] (beyond scope of sight or observance, but on the same continent/mass, at this point artillery and earthquakes are not wide enough to reach)
• Intercontinental (self-explanatory)

And then planetary and so on.

Also still in favor of distinguishing Power range and Attack range. For instance, in Star Wars, characters with Force powers can sense each other from great distances, but they cannot attack even through the Force or super-weapons (like during Order 66 where Yoda felt death of the Jedi but he of course has no influence over that range).