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and how?
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how far above baseline 1-A is michael and lucifer
- Thread starter Apprentice21
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Considering he's nigh boundless? Probably infinite degrees of infinity.
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infintie degrees of infinity above baseline 1-A? then how far above the baseline 1-A is the presence, since the presence is insanely above michael and lucifer. and if michael is this strong, how the hell did he lose to tenma yato on this site?TheMightyRegulator said:
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Fan is of course right. It's difficult to tell the difference in strength between outer verse characters.
The presence is insanely more powerful than him but this doesn't mean much in even tier 2 and up.
It was stated Tenma has equivalent feats to Michael but I don't know the details.
The presence is insanely more powerful than him but this doesn't mean much in even tier 2 and up.
It was stated Tenma has equivalent feats to Michael but I don't know the details.
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how did you come to the conclusion that michael and lucifer are infinite degrees of infinity above the baseline 1-A?TheMightyRegulator said:
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how does pre retcon beyonder fare against michael or lucifer?FanofRPGs said:
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Gets s***stomped by either of the two.
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The difference between 1-A ( Michael & Lucifer ) & High 1-B ( Beyonder ) ... Is the difference between 10-C & 1-A tiers... To give you an idea.
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thats ridiculous. how can the difference between high 1-B and 1-A be so big? i always thought that the beyonder was at least slightly comparable to those two...
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Nope. It has always been that big.
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so lucifer would just blink the beyonder out of existence?The 2nd Existential Seed said:
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An unfathomably small portion of his power would be needed... So yes.
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sorry to bother you again, but are lucifer and michael the strongest 1-A characters on this site (excluding the presence and high 1-A characters)The 2nd Existential Seed said:
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Far from. The Masadaverse, Cthulhu Mythos, Demonbane, I/O, and Umineko exist.
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Yeah.... Michael wouldn't be able to deal with I/O or Chutlhu Mythos . At all. Like, Hajun could literally one-shot an infinite combination of Michael's. I/O's Mutsuki and Sakuya are infinitely superior to Hajun.
Off topic, but I am really looking for High 1-B / 1-A examples in fictions. Is there anything I need to mainly look out for to fit the requirements.
Off topic, but I am really looking for High 1-B / 1-A examples in fictions. Is there anything I need to mainly look out for to fit the requirements.
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Most of them are from Marvel or DC, surprisingly. There's LEM and The Glory, but I don't know of others.
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mutsuki and sakuya are high 1-A's. i said excluding high 1-A's. and how would hajun one shot michael?The 2nd Existential Seed said:
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is mutsuki and sakuya really infinitely superior to hajun?The real cal howard said:
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Infinity kinda doesn't mean much in 1-A so...yeah.
Though measuring 1-A's is kinda the worst thing to do in indexing forums.
Though measuring 1-A's is kinda the worst thing to do in indexing forums.
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if comparing 1-A's is nearly impossible, how did that guy know that hajun would one shot infinite michaels? maybe its the other way around, maybe michael can one shot an infinite number of hajuns. isnt that possible?
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Baseline 1-A characters are limited to their level of power or plane of existence.Apprentice21 said:
Mother night and the Source are without boundaries and boundless voids respectively.
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The basic premise of 1-A is that there are infinitely increasing levels of infinity. In which each layer is infinitely larger, more complex, and harder to destroy. To a low 2-C character, a high 3-A character's power is literally a zero. However, there are beings who completely bypass this infinitely increasing hierarchy and exist outside it. As such, any concept of scaling is gone, any concept of infinity is null, as the truest infinity is but a mere blip to them. What can you even measure? With increasing hierarchies, you may measure a higher infinity to an infetesimal infinity of the lower hierarchy, and one concept of measurement may be infinitely lowly to another, but measuring is still a concept to them. For 1-A characters, nope, you cannot measure them as measurement is not even a concept for them. We cannot gauge 1-A characters, they are entirely unquantifiable due to existing beyond concepts all dimensioned beings hold in some way.
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Hajun has an taiyoku level of infinity. Even having an taiyoku level of one is baseline 1-A. The differences between a few Taiyoku levels is insanely high BTW.
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so? michael has infinite power
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i heard from a staff member that mother night is baseline 1-A, but according to you, mother night is far above baseline 1-A.... interestingTheMightyRegulator said:
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As I said, infinity is a concept all characters within dimensional hierarchy hold. What is infinity to a 1-A character? Just another inferior jumble of things dimensioned beings have, which they don't get, because they are "above" it. Infinite power means nothing for 1-A characters.Apprentice21 said:
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so just because hajun has infinite taikyoku doesnt mean that he can beat michael. amirite?FanofRPGs said:
since infinity means jack shit for 1-A characters
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Hajun would win, but so would Michael. You know why? Because noone can truly "win" a 1-A fight. Cause and effect does not exist at this stage in any sense of the word, the most sensible definition is a "Soupy mess". Superior stats on the face of it means absolutely nothing, as we cannot measure if such stats add weight at all. Only way we know if a 1-A is superior is if one within ITS OWN VERSE "defeats" it, and when I say defeat, I mean defeat in the MOST abstract way.Apprentice21 said:
Honestly, I don't see why we are so liberal to allow 1-A fights, there is no way to gauge it if we go by what the definition for 1-A characters are.
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If there's a world that transcends an infinite dimensional structure and another world that transcends that structure, would you not say that higher would is infinitely greater than that lower world?
I think they can be measured. Feats are still relevant unless you're in the upper echelons of 1-A.
I think they can be measured. Feats are still relevant unless you're in the upper echelons of 1-A.
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Its just "bigger", if one is allowed to say it is "infinitely" bigger, than I am allowed to say it is tomatoley bigger. We use "infinitely" because it is the biggest concept we comprehend so it sounds about right, but 1-A existences are bigger than dimensioned systems in an undescribable way. Its just "bigger", it exists beyond any such concepts it has.TheMightyRegulator said:
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Yeah. I know a few off the top of my head from DC / Marvel .
Just a few I know from Marvel that isn't here : Nebulos ( fought LT and even was a threat to him wielding the staff . Even Hugo Strange wielding Extra-Dimensional energies was insignificant enough to defeat him, even with LT's help ) , Cyttorak ( Can hold off Oblivion's True Form , has shown the ability to defeat Multi-Eternity easily . ) , Alteza ( [ ] Don't have the scans because the one who has them has yet to answer me on Comicvine. Her & Altez, hold off Oblivion from destroying Earth 616 . Altez himself has the feat of staying inside Oblivion , who the entire time was trying to kill him , for millions of years without dying. Before that feat, we clearly see Warlock entering Oblivio . This is where Altez was . Alteza is Altez's six year old replacement & comparable equal, but her lack of control and such is quite interesting . Alteza lives in a world beyond the influence of others within the Marvel Multiverse . Even after sensing Akenhaten's power, he was not viewed as a threat to herself . This means she essentially scales to Akenhaten w/ the Heart of the Universe. The only contradiction to her powers is Thanos' "The End" , but that is considered non-canon anyways . Serves as an Anchor to her reality [ She keeps her own reality from going into the Abyss/Oblivion. ] & The Cosmic Vortex itself . If she goes, the entire 616 Reality, and everyone and everything in it [ as well as the Cosmic Vortex ] will end. That's insane. However, she is a bit of a glass-canon as well . She was also described as having vastly potent cosmic powers by someone with very powerful Cosmic Awareness ) , Akenhaten ( Canonically only weaker than Thano's HOTU & Alteza . ) , Maelstrom ( Oblivion's M-Body ) , Scathan the Approver ( Showed vast superiority over LT via being Protege [ Had LT, and other Multi-Abstracts ] . Similar level to Nebulos ) , Technically Tiamut ( Equal to Tiamut. Fulcrum, due to it's nature, should be superior to Oblivion ) , and quite a few.
I somewhat agree with Fan... Somewhat.
Just a few I know from Marvel that isn't here : Nebulos ( fought LT and even was a threat to him wielding the staff . Even Hugo Strange wielding Extra-Dimensional energies was insignificant enough to defeat him, even with LT's help ) , Cyttorak ( Can hold off Oblivion's True Form , has shown the ability to defeat Multi-Eternity easily . ) , Alteza ( [ ] Don't have the scans because the one who has them has yet to answer me on Comicvine. Her & Altez, hold off Oblivion from destroying Earth 616 . Altez himself has the feat of staying inside Oblivion , who the entire time was trying to kill him , for millions of years without dying. Before that feat, we clearly see Warlock entering Oblivio . This is where Altez was . Alteza is Altez's six year old replacement & comparable equal, but her lack of control and such is quite interesting . Alteza lives in a world beyond the influence of others within the Marvel Multiverse . Even after sensing Akenhaten's power, he was not viewed as a threat to herself . This means she essentially scales to Akenhaten w/ the Heart of the Universe. The only contradiction to her powers is Thanos' "The End" , but that is considered non-canon anyways . Serves as an Anchor to her reality [ She keeps her own reality from going into the Abyss/Oblivion. ] & The Cosmic Vortex itself . If she goes, the entire 616 Reality, and everyone and everything in it [ as well as the Cosmic Vortex ] will end. That's insane. However, she is a bit of a glass-canon as well . She was also described as having vastly potent cosmic powers by someone with very powerful Cosmic Awareness ) , Akenhaten ( Canonically only weaker than Thano's HOTU & Alteza . ) , Maelstrom ( Oblivion's M-Body ) , Scathan the Approver ( Showed vast superiority over LT via being Protege [ Had LT, and other Multi-Abstracts ] . Similar level to Nebulos ) , Technically Tiamut ( Equal to Tiamut. Fulcrum, due to it's nature, should be superior to Oblivion ) , and quite a few.
I somewhat agree with Fan... Somewhat.
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Let me explain better.
Infinity is infinity. It is every number, one can never count to infinity, because the definition of infinity is without an end. The concept of dimensions is that our concept of what is endless is but a tiny zero, which is technically without end, to a higher infinity, a higher dimension. This higher infinity too is but a zero, technically without an end, to an even higher dimension. This goes on to infinity. This process itself has no end. Each time a dimension gets infinitely bigger. So technically, being infinitely above High 1-B literally just means you are infinity + 1 dimensional, or infinite dimensional. High 1-B is the limit for all concepts we have, regardless how skewed they are due to the nature of higher infinities. A 1-A being? They exist out of that, and you cannot describe how, because just saying he is infinitely above High 1-B just means he is High 1-B. He is above 1-B, above infinite hierarchies of higher infinities, above dimensions, these are the only terms we can say to gauge them. We know a character is high 1-A if he is highly above a 1-A character WITHIN his own verse, and when I say highly above, that means in a very abstract sense we, nor any dimensioned being, would understand. Our wiki, despite the name, is made to rate the power of characters, not necessarily pit them in fights. We have to add 1-A characters because they exist, but we should never put them in fights in my opinion.
Infinity is infinity. It is every number, one can never count to infinity, because the definition of infinity is without an end. The concept of dimensions is that our concept of what is endless is but a tiny zero, which is technically without end, to a higher infinity, a higher dimension. This higher infinity too is but a zero, technically without an end, to an even higher dimension. This goes on to infinity. This process itself has no end. Each time a dimension gets infinitely bigger. So technically, being infinitely above High 1-B literally just means you are infinity + 1 dimensional, or infinite dimensional. High 1-B is the limit for all concepts we have, regardless how skewed they are due to the nature of higher infinities. A 1-A being? They exist out of that, and you cannot describe how, because just saying he is infinitely above High 1-B just means he is High 1-B. He is above 1-B, above infinite hierarchies of higher infinities, above dimensions, these are the only terms we can say to gauge them. We know a character is high 1-A if he is highly above a 1-A character WITHIN his own verse, and when I say highly above, that means in a very abstract sense we, nor any dimensioned being, would understand. Our wiki, despite the name, is made to rate the power of characters, not necessarily pit them in fights. We have to add 1-A characters because they exist, but we should never put them in fights in my opinion.
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