Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,948
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Pretty much the title.
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How does Giorno's Empathic manipulation work?
- Thread starter Rikimarox2
- Start date
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The message-transitation that i talked before:
The Originators of Idea: "Hello, sorry to bother you. I wanted to ask you a question on GER. I saw in Giorno's ap that he is able to ignore durability with return to zero. How would that work? Like would he be able to damage someone with a higher durability than building+ level? Like for example Negating goku's durability and being able to damage him? Please help in clearing my confusion away. Thanks again.
Chariot190:
"Not exactly. RTZ doesn't have any inherent offensive capability.
When the profile says "can ignore durability with RTZ"
It's basically saying "having a higher durability won't stop RTZ from effecting you unless you're acasual or something".
Basically, it can't HURT someone, but having high durability also won't stop it from setting you back to zero or doing some funky hax on you.
In the case of Goku, no, if he gets hit by RTZ he isn't going to drop dead or anything, but on the opposite end of things he's still not going to be able to take action as he lacks the proper resistances.
The only time RTZ is useful in regards to offense is if GER himself can harm the opponent in some way, in which RTZ makes it drastically worse, see the death loop for example.
In response to "lowering durability", he can, but only to a previous state, using Goku as an example, if Goku transformed or powered up to raise his stats, RTZ can revert him back to before he did that, putting him back to his base durability, but it can't do something like make Goku's durability human level unless it was at that level previously within that situation."
That was the message, when in the post on vsbw general we talkeda bout rtz ignoring durability, guessing about empatich manipulation, so he asked to chariot
The Originators of Idea: "Hello, sorry to bother you. I wanted to ask you a question on GER. I saw in Giorno's ap that he is able to ignore durability with return to zero. How would that work? Like would he be able to damage someone with a higher durability than building+ level? Like for example Negating goku's durability and being able to damage him? Please help in clearing my confusion away. Thanks again.
Chariot190:
"Not exactly. RTZ doesn't have any inherent offensive capability.
When the profile says "can ignore durability with RTZ"
It's basically saying "having a higher durability won't stop RTZ from effecting you unless you're acasual or something".
Basically, it can't HURT someone, but having high durability also won't stop it from setting you back to zero or doing some funky hax on you.
In the case of Goku, no, if he gets hit by RTZ he isn't going to drop dead or anything, but on the opposite end of things he's still not going to be able to take action as he lacks the proper resistances.
The only time RTZ is useful in regards to offense is if GER himself can harm the opponent in some way, in which RTZ makes it drastically worse, see the death loop for example.
In response to "lowering durability", he can, but only to a previous state, using Goku as an example, if Goku transformed or powered up to raise his stats, RTZ can revert him back to before he did that, putting him back to his base durability, but it can't do something like make Goku's durability human level unless it was at that level previously within that situation."
That was the message, when in the post on vsbw general we talkeda bout rtz ignoring durability, guessing about empatich manipulation, so he asked to chariot
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I think a more proper explanation is just to say where he gets Empathic Manip from, lol.
Basically, WoG claims he can reset Willpower to 0 with RTZ. Therefore, Empathic Manip. Simple.
Basically, WoG claims he can reset Willpower to 0 with RTZ. Therefore, Empathic Manip. Simple.
Rikimarox2
He/Him- 7,948
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- Thread starter
- #4
Is it combat applicable?
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Yes, in the same way RTZ is. But he never uses it in-character, so don’t expect it to be debated on in vsmatches.
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he used against diavolo. probably
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He didn’t use it against Diavolo. He used the Death Loop on him, but not Empathic Manip. Empathic Manip only comes from WoG as far as I know.
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Diavolo literally wasn't able to move for some seconds
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And...? That’s not Empathic Manip. He wasn’t resetting someone’s Willpower there.
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Diavolo wasn't able to move and even talk. he himself did not have the "will" or "strength" to face ger in those seconds. also if this isn't empatich manipulation, you still have no proof "he don't do it in character" since, he should be legated at return to zero, another effect of RtZ in theory and just because he didn't used dosen't mean it isn't in-character
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A: That’s a Headcanon. show me where it’s stated Diavolo did not have the Willpower to move and stuff.
B: Legated? What does that mean?
C: Since he doesn’t use it, it’s not in-character for him to use. Simple. That’s the literal definition.
B: Legated? What does that mean?
C: Since he doesn’t use it, it’s not in-character for him to use. Simple. That’s the literal definition.
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A: He wasn't able to move and react, that's reconducable to the effect of RtZ according with stand stats stuff
B: His Willpower manipulation according with stand stats as i remember is an effect of return to zero
C: I mean.. that's not that good motivation... if you find it difficult to use it .. it seems obvious to me... also im pretty sure it's a sub-effect of RtZ
B: His Willpower manipulation according with stand stats as i remember is an effect of return to zero
C: I mean.. that's not that good motivation... if you find it difficult to use it .. it seems obvious to me... also im pretty sure it's a sub-effect of RtZ
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A: And how was that based off of Willpower?
B: Yes, and?
C: If you need more motivation to use it, then it’s not in-character to use under normal circumstances. It’s that simple.
B: Yes, and?
C: If you need more motivation to use it, then it’s not in-character to use under normal circumstances. It’s that simple.
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A and B: his willpower manipulation is a part of RtZ effect, so when he will do return to zero he will also reset your will
C: i mean, not wrong, but also wrong since he can use it in fight
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A: Actually, the wording is iirc, Diavolo for a good portion of the fight did not ‘lose willpower’. This implies it has to be something he actually has to, you know, perform.
C: Can use in a fight =/= In-Character. For example, Goku can start with Instant Transmission-ing you into the Sun. But it’s not in-character for him.
C: Can use in a fight =/= In-Character. For example, Goku can start with Instant Transmission-ing you into the Sun. But it’s not in-character for him.
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He temporany losed it i guess. the time of ger beatdown
Yes but you are considering a thing that he can actually use inutilizable because isn't in-character. When Giorno in-character, is a skilled fighter with always the move / strategy ready for combat, so ye he can use it if he want
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I was in the GER willpower manipulation thread and from what i can remember is that:
GER can indeed reset someone's willpower to 0 BUT the exact mechanics of it is unknown. Is the Willpower reset done via empathic manipulation or causality manipulaton? No one really knows. A lot of people before that thread including me thought it was done via empathic manipulation and that's why he has it i guess.
And the rtz ignoring durability just means it's a hax therefore it can affect chars regardless of their durability. If willpower manip can still be used in vs threads then ger can just reset someone's willpower to 0 regardless if they have multiversal durability
GER can indeed reset someone's willpower to 0 BUT the exact mechanics of it is unknown. Is the Willpower reset done via empathic manipulation or causality manipulaton? No one really knows. A lot of people before that thread including me thought it was done via empathic manipulation and that's why he has it i guess.
And the rtz ignoring durability just means it's a hax therefore it can affect chars regardless of their durability. If willpower manip can still be used in vs threads then ger can just reset someone's willpower to 0 regardless if they have multiversal durability
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Yeah basically in that thread it was agreed upon that Giorno has empathic manipulation but we have no idea how it works and he's never shown to use it so he can't use it in a fight. It's purely on his page for indexing purposes.
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welp, i mean the "lowering durability" make you return to a fist state apparently..
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I mean yeah if a char transforms mid battle and ger decides to rtz causality then it will lower the opponent's durablity to its previous state. But it doesnt outright lower a char's durability like say def down debuff in rpgs. At least as shown in canon and other non canon but official jojo stuff. Who knows what other things ger can reset to 0. It did reset gio's death to 0 making him immortal in JJ.
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