Anonymous_Learner
He/Him- 6,761
- 6,026
First hellaverse CRT was downgrades+upgrades so I'm right at home with.
I wanted to wait till some other calcs were reviewed but this verse maybe be controversial in and put of this wiki but man does it take a while to get little to no review.
I'm tired, boss
Niffty and Weakened Alastor (in base) travel Speed downgrade
Niffty (and other overlord characters) currently scales to supersonic+ in travel speed due to "being roughly comparable to Alastor". This is simply incorrect. Alastor, in base, no staff, physically scarred is the strongest sinner in all of hell and even in this state, while fighting against the only person he thought could reach his level, was never challenged by said person and had to hold back his power in order to for his plan to break his contract with Rosie. There's simply no world where Niffty (and others) has the same speed as Al. Instead, she'll scale to her own travel speed feat of Subsonic. as for the other Overlords, they honestly should get nothing travel speed wise as it shown consistently that Niffty is shown to be one of the most agile characters in the show and annoyance to even on the Vees level but, if there's enough motion, I'll let them downscale.
In the same vain though, Weakend Alastor's travel speed in base shall be nerfed. The current justification of Alastor's supersonic+ travel speed is that he was able to outrun Shok.wav for an extensive duration. This does work and I'm not saying it should be removed. However, there's one tiny detail about this that isn't noted in his current profile justifications, he did this in his demon form, which is stronger and faster than his base. Therefore, only Weakened Alastor's Demon form should scale to supersonic+. Thankfully for Base Al, he can just upscale off Niffty since, as I mentioned, he's the strongest sinner in hell. It wouldn't make much sense if his underlying was faster than him.
The Hellaverse is (mostly) NOT faster than light
Or, at the very least, Helluva Boss isn't
Reasoning on why the FTL "Feat" ain't a feat (Credit to @Eden_Warlock99)
Anti-Feats for FTL Hellaverse
Outdated WOG gotta go
Credit to @DaReaperMan and his thread for this. I'm importing it here since the thread has one vote but is, otherwise, inactive
So... yeah. This is a verse that has hilariously bad Word of God strewn throughout the profiles.
Stolas, the bum, is scaled to Full Power Alastor based off of... this. I have a half-acccepted thread going into why Stolas scaling to Alastor is asinine.
Angel Dust and Sir Pentious have dangerous venoms-- that they never show and is never even implied to exist in the actual media.
Appearances, that's obvious, special abilities? ...no. We don't even have proof of simple stuff like enhanced hearing for cast members like Husk or Alastor.
So it is stated that DEMONS are extra resilient and can regenerate limbs and yadda yadda yadda-- Imps exist. "Oh but they're a lower class of demon--" And? when did Viv ever say that it didn't apply to them?
This just... is never shown. And Alastor literally disproves this by his shield not breaking when attacked by Excorcists not named Adam.
Another statement that just is never backed up, and is contradicted: the eyes can be seen in the Lust Ring here and every scene onwards. Sinners, if we're going full WoG, are only on Pride.
Rosie is Low-tier yet made Alastor the #1 Sinner. Yeah right.
So... Vivzie doesn't put a lot of thought into her responses and statements, or they're so long ago she forgot, thus, we really shouldn't be taking them as gospel. We aren't just in the Pilot anymore, we have four seasons spread across two shows and a lot of shorts for the other show, we do not need to use Word of God to bump characters up, invent abilities, and make World Building.
So what is this thread looking to achieve? Well, basically, any Word of God that isn't either
Stolas and Goeita Downgrades plus giving Octavia scaling (just in case above doesn't go through)
Credit to Both @DaReaperMan and @Eden_Warlock99 for this, especially @DaReaperMan since it's his thread. I'm importing it here since, again, the thread has one vote but is, otherwise, inactive
These birds are scaling to Full Power Alastor. That... is not the case.
Yeah this bum's "Low 7-C" magic is being harmed by rando weapons, getting ran across by a 9-B and breaking ice from that, etcetera. In no way is Goetia Magic that far above their physicals.
Question: But then why would Viv say that she doesn't know who wins between Stolas and Alastor but leans Stolas?
Answer: That is both ancient Word of God that is very vague and frankly, can easily be attributed to the little known fact STOLAS CAN LITERALLY TURN PEOPLE TO SOLID STONE WITH A GLARE. That Alastor doesn't resist. And his profile is up to date. Also, "The way their powers work is different so it's hard to say" points to this. This also means the whole "Magic=tier 5" thing doesn't apply to Goetia.
Instead of scaling to that, instead, Andrealphus' Magic will scale to Small building level from the GPE of his Ice Dragon and Stolas will scale off Octavia destroying said dragon since he taught her everything she knows and didn't even teach her everything about spells
Angelic Weapons upgrade
It's come to my attention that the angelic weapons just greatly upscale 9-A due to being able to kill overlords and I believe it's time for that to change. They should be Tier 5 and the reason for that is for their feats against Lucifer and Adam.
Firstly and most obviously, An angelic weapon is the reason adam is dead and repeatedly pierced his flesh after the fact. However, it should be noted due to something that'll come up later that Adam was off-guard and, more importantly, had already suffered a major beating from Demon Form Lucifer and was gonna die from this last blow (Though, tbf, it was a magical attack). 2nd of all, angelic weapons pierce through base lucifer and draw blood from him, the same guy who powered the thing that caused the Tier 5 feat.
So, due to all the reasons above, it stands to reason that Angelic Weapons should scale to tier 5. What does this mean then? Well, it just means that all people who wield angelic weapons should have tier 5. However, there are things in the verse that can withstand Angelic weapons
For starters, FP!Alastor's casual shield is able to tank and be impenierable to Angelic Weapons with Alastor's staff likely upscaling it since it holds a majority of his magic and it being capable of protecting alastor from death, Charlie's Shield can break angelic weapons, Vaggie can't break the might of lilth or break Lucifer out of his bubble
Therefore, all in all, scaling chain goes "Lu>Adam>Alastor's staff>Alastor's Barrier>Charlie's shield>Might of Lilith>AW"
Miscellaneous Things
Things i wanna add but didn't have a cool title for
High 8-C returns!1!1! (Upgrades for Imps, sinners, and overlords)
This calc blog, this calc blog, this calc blog, and this calc blog were accepted, and so here are the upgrades
Mod Votes;
Agree: @FinePoint (Agrees with everything), @SomebodyData (Mostly Everything), @AbaddonTheDisappointment (Same boat as SomebodyData)
Disagree:
Neutral: @SomebodyData (WoG removal but said they're fine with it going), @AbaddonTheDisappointment (Same boat as SomebodyData)
Reg User Votes;
Agree: @DaReaperMan, @OmenISTIRED, @DarkLock92 (Mostly Everything), @Mommyleona (Speed Downgrade, said nothing about anything else), @Alexander (Mostly Everything), @Mythic381 (most things), @Saqphire. @OiEuSouDuvi (Mostly everything), @Randomuser3412 (Mostly Everything) @TheOrangeGuy09 (Agrees with Everything), @MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden (Agrees with everything), @Apex_Predator_GX, @AyOgUyS
Disagree: @Alexander (Speed Downgrade as a whole), @Mythic381 (That all WOG Statements should be tossed and That Stolas isn't combarable/slightly superior to FP!Alastor), @ShionAH (The Speed Downgrade as a Whole), @OiEuSouDuvi (Disagrees with those WoG statements that aren't character abilities should be discarded and that they could be rated at least a possibility),
Neutral: @DarkLock92 (on Angelic Weapon Chainscale), @Randomuser3412 (The speed Section till @ShionAH makes in in-depth counter to it)
I wanted to wait till some other calcs were reviewed but this verse maybe be controversial in and put of this wiki but man does it take a while to get little to no review.
I'm tired, boss
Niffty and Weakened Alastor (in base) travel Speed downgrade
Niffty (and other overlord characters) currently scales to supersonic+ in travel speed due to "being roughly comparable to Alastor". This is simply incorrect. Alastor, in base, no staff, physically scarred is the strongest sinner in all of hell and even in this state, while fighting against the only person he thought could reach his level, was never challenged by said person and had to hold back his power in order to for his plan to break his contract with Rosie. There's simply no world where Niffty (and others) has the same speed as Al. Instead, she'll scale to her own travel speed feat of Subsonic. as for the other Overlords, they honestly should get nothing travel speed wise as it shown consistently that Niffty is shown to be one of the most agile characters in the show and annoyance to even on the Vees level but, if there's enough motion, I'll let them downscale.
In the same vain though, Weakend Alastor's travel speed in base shall be nerfed. The current justification of Alastor's supersonic+ travel speed is that he was able to outrun Shok.wav for an extensive duration. This does work and I'm not saying it should be removed. However, there's one tiny detail about this that isn't noted in his current profile justifications, he did this in his demon form, which is stronger and faster than his base. Therefore, only Weakened Alastor's Demon form should scale to supersonic+. Thankfully for Base Al, he can just upscale off Niffty since, as I mentioned, he's the strongest sinner in hell. It wouldn't make much sense if his underlying was faster than him.
The Hellaverse is (mostly) NOT faster than light
Or, at the very least, Helluva Boss isn't
Reasoning on why the FTL "Feat" ain't a feat (Credit to @Eden_Warlock99)
- she was already trying to leave when the beam intercepted her from miles away and the beam’s supposed approach looks identical to the effect that appears when it's about to fire.
- She can, at most, barely dodge the might of lilith beam close ranged despite supposedly being able to out speed it after it fired from kilometers away.
Anti-Feats for FTL Hellaverse
- Stolas, a high-ranking Demon in hell, is scared and got surprised by revolver bullets, needing to transform into his demon form's flight speed to consistently dodge them
- An overlord gets cornered by gunfire
- Cherri gets hit and gets cornered by Valentino's gunfire
- Angel Dust, I.M.P. Members, Striker, and Val consistently use gunfire as weapons
- Weakened Alastor, still the strongest Sinner of hell, can contend with the Vees for an long time while holding back, never once been challenged by sinners in hell (even by someone he thought could reach his level), thus is superior to literally everyone besides Lucifer and Adam (especially at this point), is unable to dodge lightning consistently with his physicals alone. Alastor trying to lose for his plan isn't an excuse as he later shows in that same fight he can and will dodge things. You can see in the last of the electrical exchanges in the beginning 40 seconds that Alastor goes backwards with a head start and Vox, traveling as Lightning, moves faster than him with Alasor. Also, the "the green light is shown flickering so his powers weren't working," It's currently accepted in this CRT that Alastor was faking his inability to use his powers for his plans and we see in his fight with 100% Vox he's not unable to use his powers and is quite capable. Even with the excuse of him faking that we don't accept, we see Alastor getting blitzed in this occasion while in his demon transformation, which makes them stronger and faster. The only times he's dodge vox's lightning is via turning into a shadow before the attack came down
Outdated WOG gotta go
Credit to @DaReaperMan and his thread for this. I'm importing it here since the thread has one vote but is, otherwise, inactive
So... yeah. This is a verse that has hilariously bad Word of God strewn throughout the profiles.
Stolas, the bum, is scaled to Full Power Alastor based off of... this. I have a half-acccepted thread going into why Stolas scaling to Alastor is asinine.
Angel Dust and Sir Pentious have dangerous venoms-- that they never show and is never even implied to exist in the actual media.
Appearances, that's obvious, special abilities? ...no. We don't even have proof of simple stuff like enhanced hearing for cast members like Husk or Alastor.
So it is stated that DEMONS are extra resilient and can regenerate limbs and yadda yadda yadda-- Imps exist. "Oh but they're a lower class of demon--" And? when did Viv ever say that it didn't apply to them?
This just... is never shown. And Alastor literally disproves this by his shield not breaking when attacked by Excorcists not named Adam.
Another statement that just is never backed up, and is contradicted: the eyes can be seen in the Lust Ring here and every scene onwards. Sinners, if we're going full WoG, are only on Pride.
Rosie is Low-tier yet made Alastor the #1 Sinner. Yeah right.
So... Vivzie doesn't put a lot of thought into her responses and statements, or they're so long ago she forgot, thus, we really shouldn't be taking them as gospel. We aren't just in the Pilot anymore, we have four seasons spread across two shows and a lot of shorts for the other show, we do not need to use Word of God to bump characters up, invent abilities, and make World Building.
So what is this thread looking to achieve? Well, basically, any Word of God that isn't either
- Stated multiple times
- Word of God that is clarifying a scene in the show.
- Word of God that is Supported by the show, like Niffty being able to speak Japanese.
Stolas and Goeita Downgrades plus giving Octavia scaling (just in case above doesn't go through)
Credit to Both @DaReaperMan and @Eden_Warlock99 for this, especially @DaReaperMan since it's his thread. I'm importing it here since, again, the thread has one vote but is, otherwise, inactive
These birds are scaling to Full Power Alastor. That... is not the case.
Yeah this bum's "Low 7-C" magic is being harmed by rando weapons, getting ran across by a 9-B and breaking ice from that, etcetera. In no way is Goetia Magic that far above their physicals.
Question: But then why would Viv say that she doesn't know who wins between Stolas and Alastor but leans Stolas?
Answer: That is both ancient Word of God that is very vague and frankly, can easily be attributed to the little known fact STOLAS CAN LITERALLY TURN PEOPLE TO SOLID STONE WITH A GLARE. That Alastor doesn't resist. And his profile is up to date. Also, "The way their powers work is different so it's hard to say" points to this. This also means the whole "Magic=tier 5" thing doesn't apply to Goetia.
Instead of scaling to that, instead, Andrealphus' Magic will scale to Small building level from the GPE of his Ice Dragon and Stolas will scale off Octavia destroying said dragon since he taught her everything she knows and didn't even teach her everything about spells
Angelic Weapons upgrade
It's come to my attention that the angelic weapons just greatly upscale 9-A due to being able to kill overlords and I believe it's time for that to change. They should be Tier 5 and the reason for that is for their feats against Lucifer and Adam.
Firstly and most obviously, An angelic weapon is the reason adam is dead and repeatedly pierced his flesh after the fact. However, it should be noted due to something that'll come up later that Adam was off-guard and, more importantly, had already suffered a major beating from Demon Form Lucifer and was gonna die from this last blow (Though, tbf, it was a magical attack). 2nd of all, angelic weapons pierce through base lucifer and draw blood from him, the same guy who powered the thing that caused the Tier 5 feat.
So, due to all the reasons above, it stands to reason that Angelic Weapons should scale to tier 5. What does this mean then? Well, it just means that all people who wield angelic weapons should have tier 5. However, there are things in the verse that can withstand Angelic weapons
For starters, FP!Alastor's casual shield is able to tank and be impenierable to Angelic Weapons with Alastor's staff likely upscaling it since it holds a majority of his magic and it being capable of protecting alastor from death, Charlie's Shield can break angelic weapons, Vaggie can't break the might of lilth or break Lucifer out of his bubble
Therefore, all in all, scaling chain goes "Lu>Adam>Alastor's staff>Alastor's Barrier>Charlie's shield>Might of Lilith>AW"
Miscellaneous Things
Things i wanna add but didn't have a cool title for
- Charlie should get levitation, sound manipulation, and (i think) air manipulation due to levitating, making her voice have an deeper echo behind her own voice, and genererating wind pressure in this scene. This also could be used as further justification for Charlie's fire manipulation
- Charlie should get flight with her shield for this scene
- Giving Vox MHS+ attack speed/travel speed. Vox's electricity has several characteristics of natural lightning, such as causing the muscles of affected beings to contract, possessing an (electro)magnetic field, demonstrating that it actually moves at a speed similar to that of lightning (Vox summons and becomes lightning), flowing through conductive materials, and being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general. (Accepted and in profile already).
Furthermore, Vox was shown capable of become and summoning CtG ( Cloud to Ground ) lightning
High 8-C returns!1!1! (Upgrades for Imps, sinners, and overlords)
This calc blog, this calc blog, this calc blog, and this calc blog were accepted, and so here are the upgrades
- At least Base Charlie: Given her physical confrontation with Katie Killjoy while the latter was amped by True Demon form and enraged, i believe giving her the baseline of this tier is more than fair
- Sir Pentious: Did this feat.
- Likely Base Charlie: Despite Sir Pentious being a physical tank, he is stated to be a "wussy fighter" and "kind of a wimp" in physicals by WOG, is views as harmless in the show, and has stated himself that he can't fight without his minions, thus, the princess of hell should upscale off him
- Likely Octavia: should upscales of pentious for the same reasons as charlie since she's the daughter of and the "precautionary heir" to Stolas and one of Hell's few magic users, with only the most powerful demons being capable of using magic
- Moxxie: While He's undoubtly on the weaker side of the group, he can not only endure multiple blows from Blitzo but also harm those who can harm him
- Millie: Endured the feat. can harm those who can harm her with physical strikes
- Blitzo: Is stated above most of his kind and is relative to Striker, who's superior to moxxie and mille
- Striker: Stated himself that he's superior to most of his kind. Easily physically overpowered Moxxie and broke Millie's arm.
- Loona: Kicked away Moxxie and left Blitzo reeling with this kick, thought it was a weak spot
- Demon Form Loona: Cut Andrealphus' neck and did minor damage to Andrealphus' Ice Dragon, showing she's far superior to her base
- Andrealphus' Magic: Overpowered a Weakened and Depowered Stolas with magic. Created an ice dragon with this much GPE that dominated I.M.P. and Weakened Stolas
- Cherri: Her bombs cause this amount of damage. Is comparable to Angel Dust, who can harm Pentious. Can harm and draw blood from Valentino after multiple repeated strikes
- Pentious (In Durability): Tanked one of Cherri's bombs to the face. Survived a giant explosion from an irritated Alastor and withstood a Magic attack from Casual Zestial with Husker stated that Pentious can take a beating.
- Carmilla Carmine: She's one of the highest ranking Overlords, with enough authority to organize and end their meetings, so could see her getting "Likely 9-A"?
- Angel Dust: Can spar with Cherri and knock her down, force Vox to exert effort to move his head and stop an Exorcist mid-swing with his Angelic Tommy Guns.
- Valentino: Tanked one of Cherri bombs Explosions to the face, only being stunned due to having bad eyesight Can harm Vox
- Husk: Fought Valentino and could clash with him.
- Velvette: Relative to the other Vees but also fought and defeated Husk.
- Niffty: Fought on par with Velvette.
- W!Alastor: While intentionally trying to lose, held his own against Vox and the other two Vees.
- Angel Pentious durability: Withstood this and only got a broken arm.
- Angellic Weapons: Capable of drawing blood from lucifer, pierced through a beaten down adam while off guard
- Charlie's shield: Broke an angelic weapon
- Alastor's Shield: Was impenetrable multiple exorcists and their dozen angelic weapons
- Alastor's Staff: Is the container of all his magic and saved him from perma death
- Adam: Casually Oneshot Alastor's Shield and his angry holy light oneshot Alastor's Staff, the container of all his magic. Downscales Lucifer
- Charlie (Fully Transfomered and Rage Amped): With her fully transformed arm, she withstood the force behind an enraged Adam's punch
- Lucifer: Stronger than Adam.
Demom Loona: With her demon form resembling a wolf, she should be at least this fast with her demon form is shown to travel faster than blitzo can run, who she previously could run with side by side
Blitzo
Moxxie
Loona
Stolas
Andrealphus
Robo Fizz
Verosika
Striker
Sallie
Barbie Wire
Ronaldo
Martha
Millie
Octavia
The Excorcists (Vaggi and Lute)
Charlie Morningstar
Cherri
Carmilla Carmine
Angel Dust
Valentino
Husk
Velvette
Niffty
W!Alastor
Moxxie
Loona
Stolas
Andrealphus
Robo Fizz
Verosika
Striker
Sallie
Barbie Wire
Ronaldo
Martha
Millie
Octavia
The Excorcists (Vaggi and Lute)
Charlie Morningstar
Cherri
Carmilla Carmine
Angel Dust
Valentino
Husk
Velvette
Niffty
W!Alastor
Adam: Downscales lucifer and managed to catch up to him after some time
Transformed and Enraged Charlie: Reacted to and intercepted Adam's enraged punch midflight
Lucifer: flew this fast to rescue charlie
Transformed and Enraged Charlie: Reacted to and intercepted Adam's enraged punch midflight
Lucifer: flew this fast to rescue charlie
Demon Form W!Alastor: Could outrun Shok.wav for a certain ammount of time
100% Vox: Can keep with Alastor
Shok.Wav: Went this fast to save Vox
FP!Alastor: Easily avoided all of an angry Аdаm's attempts to hit him. Adam saw Alastor's ability to dodge his hits and was disturbed by it
Adam: can dodge hordes of attacks from Alastor and blitzed a staffless Alastor, further weakening him
100% Vox: Can keep with Alastor
Shok.Wav: Went this fast to save Vox
FP!Alastor: Easily avoided all of an angry Аdаm's attempts to hit him. Adam saw Alastor's ability to dodge his hits and was disturbed by it
Adam: can dodge hordes of attacks from Alastor and blitzed a staffless Alastor, further weakening him
Adam's Holy Light: Destroyed Pentious' Ship this fast
Lucifer: Repeatedly outpaced Adam's Holy Light beams
All form of Vox whenever he transforms into lightning
Lucifer's Beams
M.O.L. Beams
M.O.L. Beams
Mod Votes;
Agree: @FinePoint (Agrees with everything), @SomebodyData (Mostly Everything), @AbaddonTheDisappointment (Same boat as SomebodyData)
Disagree:
Neutral: @SomebodyData (WoG removal but said they're fine with it going), @AbaddonTheDisappointment (Same boat as SomebodyData)
Reg User Votes;
Agree: @DaReaperMan, @OmenISTIRED, @DarkLock92 (Mostly Everything), @Mommyleona (Speed Downgrade, said nothing about anything else), @Alexander (Mostly Everything), @Mythic381 (most things), @Saqphire. @OiEuSouDuvi (Mostly everything), @Randomuser3412 (Mostly Everything) @TheOrangeGuy09 (Agrees with Everything), @MyriadOfHeartsSpiritualFlowerGarden (Agrees with everything), @Apex_Predator_GX, @AyOgUyS
Disagree: @Alexander (Speed Downgrade as a whole), @Mythic381 (That all WOG Statements should be tossed and That Stolas isn't combarable/slightly superior to FP!Alastor), @ShionAH (The Speed Downgrade as a Whole), @OiEuSouDuvi (Disagrees with those WoG statements that aren't character abilities should be discarded and that they could be rated at least a possibility),
Neutral: @DarkLock92 (on Angelic Weapon Chainscale), @Randomuser3412 (The speed Section till @ShionAH makes in in-depth counter to it)
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