Hawks' Rating

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Simply put I disagree with Hawks' current 8A rating. My reasoning for this is the justifications that I'll go over below.

1. Can push through Dabi's flames, which have a power even greater than this.
This is the first one I disagree with because we have no clue how much Dabi is holding back (all we know is he held back and later increased his power to an unknown level) and nothing would suggest Dabi is utilising the same amount of power he used against Geten. Dabi doesn't have a set level of power he holds himself to.

2. His feathers could slightly pierce Hood's arm, but he doesn't appear to have been injured.
As it says Hood wasn't even hurt. We also know that unless it's with Muscle Augment, Power and Transforming Arms, Hood can't overpower Endeavor's thrust and is in fact forced away and loses an arm. When Hawks pierced him he wasn't using any of those quirks.

3. Hawks has been shown to be incapable of killing a white nomu in one hit and needed several attacks. White nomu are agreed to be High 8C on this wiki.

4. Finally Hawks specifically talks about how he is a speed type and he can't do much against power types so it wouldn't make much sense for him to be on the same level as Ryukyu, a power type.

Concerning his durability, the justifications aren't that strong either.

1. Comparable to Best Jeanist, who could barely survive an Air Cannon from a certain distance.
I don't recall Hawks ever being portrayed as Jeasnist's equal in durability of all things and we know the top ten don't all scale to each other based on the difference in power between Mirko and Hawks or how Mirko is below Edgeshot but based on the plane statement is considered in a similar league to Hawks (speed wise) while Edgeshot isn't.

2. Dabi exceeded his fire-usage limit in order to finish him off and still failed, but was implied he was somewhat holding back.
Dabi was shown very quickly afterwards to have still been holding back and had sufficient fire to not only fly but attack Tokoyami and was mostly fine afterwards. Concerning this point as well we know temperature damage isn't blunt force in mha so I don't get why a fire attack is being used to determine normal durability.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I can't stay for long, in fact I need to leave right after this. But I agree with this and that 8-A Hawks is wrong.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Thanks Rusty catch you later.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm in agreement that the current ratings are flawed. There isn't anything suggesting he's as durable as Best Jeanist.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I'm in agreement that the current ratings are flawed. There isn't anything suggesting he's as durable as Best Jeanist.

Are you in agreement concerning his AP as well?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I agree Jeanist is invalid as a reason for him to have 8-A durability
May as well throw Kamui woods into this he has 8-A Dura for barely withstanding a single Casual attack from dabi.
Which almost One shot him
Make that Dura vs Fire attacks

Although Personally I think Hawks should Still have possibly 8-A vs Fire attacks or just give him a likely higher idk.
So long as we consistent with the Vs Fire attacks I’ll begrudgingly accept this change

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I agree Jeanist is invalid as a reason for him to have 8-A durability
May as well throw Kamui woods into this he has 8-A Dura for barely withstanding a single Casual attack from dabi.
Which almost One shot him
Make that Dura vs Fire attacks

Although Personally I think Hawks should Still have possibly 8-A vs Fire attacks or just give him a likely higher idk.
So long as we consistent with the Vs Fire attacks I’ll begrudgingly accept this change

Yh I can agree with all this. I feel Hawks should just have a higher vs fire attacks.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I forgot to put this in the OP but Hawks is never stated to be one of the fastest pros and neither is Gran Torino. We should remove those justifications and in Hawks' case replace it with: Is comparable to Hood.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I forgot to put this in the OP but Hawks is never stated to be one of the fastest pros and neither is Gran Torino. We should remove those justifications

I agree completely it’s not directly stated there are just implicative statements regarding hawks

Like Hawks and Mirko being considered the baseline for arriving at a location fast
At least based on Jeanist’s Pilot and her not thinking of someone like Endeavor.
Justifications more like those

Torino just has feats nothing directly states he’s one of the fastest pros out there

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

So Hawks will be High 8-C? That should be fine.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

So Hawks will be High 8-C? That should be fine.

That also kind of explains Hawks barely being hurt when Dabi stepped on his head.
He didn’t take much damage from that but it was something

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Should we wait for the others to appear here or can we go with the changes since the majority of us active in CRTs seem to agree?

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

I don't see any reason not to.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm back, and why is Hawks being considered High 8-C in the first place?

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I'm back, and why is Hawks being considered High 8-C in the first place?

He needed multiple blows to beat white nomu which we accept on this wiki to be High 8C.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Why are the White Nomu's High 8-C, also he did that with blades not a punch.

We downscale in this case, with blades you can cut people who are stronger than you.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Why are the White Nomu's High 8-C, also he did that with blades not a punch.

We downscale in this case, with blades you can cut people who are stronger than you.

So where should we put Hawks? I'm not too sure on the nomu's rating (it's just it took blows from a casual Gran Torino and casual Endeavor). White nomu are at best rivalling normal pro heroes but they vary so much in power. Some can kill NHE with team work while others get stomped by most mid tiers.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Why are the White Nomu's High 8-C, also he did that with blades not a punch.

We downscale in this case, with blades you can cut people who are stronger than you.

Currently they’re considered High 8-C because several pro heroes working together are incapable of beating them

The reason sounds a tad bit iffy though.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'd say Unknown, though if he actually loses his wings for good like people are theorizing, he may never get a chance to show anything in the future.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I'd say Unknown, though if he actually loses his wings for good like people are theorizing, he may never get a chance to show anything in the future.

Yeah we kinda have to give him unknown because white nomu are kind of featless.

 

[Metalballrun]

I agree with the downgrade. Hawks should be either High 8-C or 8-C+.

Hawks have a statement that he's weak to fire, however. Yet we're considering giving him higher dura against flames. Perhaps his statements aren't necessarily completely accurate and he's underselling himself a fair bit.

Hawks can kill Twice (listed High 8-C dura) with one hit. IIRC Hawks vs White Nomus was off-screen in the manga, so he could've simply Danmaku'ed them instead of needing multiple hits. Hawks should know that their weakness is the brain so it doesn't make sense that he'll pick them apart instead of going for the kill first. Or that the nomus are just more resilient to cutting attacks (we've seen mid tiers immune to bullets, and black nomus have insane regen) due to their weird physiology.

Of course this judgment of mine is based on the White Nomu (Hosu) ratings and Twice's are accurate.

Scaling from the Todorokis' flames should always be analyzed carefully on whether or not they are using blunt force. We do have evidence that they can be (Hellflame vs Air Cannon) but likely not always.

 

[TheRustyOne]

The Nomu's weakness have never been their brain, that's only true if they have super regen, which the only Nomus that have that are the Black ones. Their brains haven't been stated to be less durable than their bodies.

I disagree with 8-C+, since once again he's performing this feat with his blades. He never physically overpowered anyone, the average person can kill someone like Bruce Lee with a knife in one shot if they aim properly.

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

Hawks could be listed like this: Unknown. High 8-C with Fierce Wings (Capable of killing Twice with a feather blade). Downscaling his physicals is completely unnecessary when you could just give a rating to his quirk.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

I agree with the downgrade. Hawks should be either High 8-C or 8-C+.

Hawks have a statement that he's weak to fire, however. Yet we're considering giving him higher dura against flames. Perhaps his statements aren't necessarily completely accurate and he's underselling himself a fair bit.

Hawks can kill Twice (listed High 8-C dura) with one hit. IIRC Hawks vs White Nomus was off-screen in the manga, so he could've simply Danmaku'ed them instead of needing multiple hits. Hawks should know that their weakness is the brain so it doesn't make sense that he'll pick them apart instead of going for the kill first. Or that the nomus are just more resilient to cutting attacks (we've seen mid tiers immune to bullets, and black nomus have insane regen) due to their weird physiology.

Of course this judgment of mine is based on the White Nomu (Hosu) ratings and Twice's are accurate.

Scaling from the Todorokis' flames should always be analyzed carefully on whether or not they are using blunt force. We do have evidence that they can be (Hellflame vs Air Cannon) but likely not always.

Likely the statement of he’s weak to fire he’s only applying to his feathers
They’re likely hard to destroy any other way especially not by fodders But he is still likely underselling himself

He can take fire attacks that one shot most of his feathers in one blast unironically it’s very strange but it’s just how it works I guess since he literally gets up after the surprise attack

 

[TheRustyOne]

He isn't High 8-C even with blades though, a knife doesn't increase the amount of energy a person uses. It's the same amount of energy just being applied to a smaller surface area. Because of that things with really sharp blades can pierce/stab something far stronger than them.

I don't mind it being noted he can stab Tier 8 characters or something, but his AP isn't High 8-C.

"The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack."

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Alright so Unknown Hawks who we note can stab High 8C characters right?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Yes that's fine by me.

 

[Metalballrun]

Then it's just a matter of figuring out how can someone harm somebody who is High 8-C dura with a weapon, then?
I know this is a thread specifically for Hawks but that opens another can of worms for many other characters with 8-C+ or High 8-C AP like Toga and Twice who mainly uses weapons.
Not that I disagree.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Then it's just a matter of figuring out how can someone harm somebody who is High 8-C dura with a weapon, then?
I know this is a thread specifically for Hawks but that opens another can of worms for many other characters with 8-C+ or High 8-C AP like Toga and Twice who mainly uses weapons.
Not that I disagree.

Also Stain’s AP

He mainly pierces and uses Blade’s his dura is unquestionable though

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Also Stain’s AP

He mainly pierces and uses Blade’s his dura is unquestionable though

I think Stain should be fine since he harmed Deku with an elbow.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Toga and anyone else should be able to stab higher characters with their weapons yes.

However Toga should scale to Base Izuku for restraining him, and forcing him to use Full Cowl to escape her grip.

Twice's rating is a problem though, but he did take a hit from Bakugo when they untied him... or was that anime only?

Stain could injure Full Cowl Izuku with an elbow though, when Izuku was dragging him across the wall he forced him off with a elbow strike.

 

[Metalballrun]

May i ask when did Toga restrain Deku?

As for Twice, I don't think Bakugo hit him with an explosion in the manga. He did hit Tomura and Compress, though. Although they were small-scale explosions and I dunno if they are all High 8-C by that time. So aside from being comparable to other League members, the justifications for his AP and Dura are iffy.

Stain I suppose should scale, although that means he'd be able to harm characters above High 8-C with his weapons.

I'd say it's also kinda weird that Toga, Stain and Twice would end up being rated higher than the No. 2 Hero, though I suppose Hawks simply lack feats aside from piercing Hood's arm.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

May i ask when did Toga restrain Deku?

As for Twice, I don't think Bakugo hit him with an explosion in the manga. He did hit Tomura and Compress, though. Although they were small-scale explosions and I dunno if they are all High 8-C by that time. So aside from being comparable to other League members, the justifications for his AP and Dura are iffy.

Stain I suppose should scale, although that means he'd be able to harm characters above High 8-C with his weapons.

I'd say it's also kinda weird that Toga, Stain and Twice would end up being rated higher than the No. 2 Hero, though I suppose Hawks simply lack feats aside from piercing Hood's arm.

Toga restrained Deku during the Provisional exams when she was disguised as Camie.
Deku literally was incapable of escaping then had to use full cowl

 

[TheRustyOne]

When she was disguised as Camie, Izuku was struggling in her grip and couldn't break out. He ended up using Full Cowl to get her off him. Or am I misremembering?

I checked and in the manga Bakugo didn't punch/elbow Twice when they freed him, so Twice's stats are very iffy.

We shouldn't rate people higher with weapons, or we'd have to do that for every single character profile on this wiki. The energy of their attacks doesn't change so it's not something that should be mention on AP, which is a measure of energy in a person's attack.

But feel free to disagree on that, it's just my opinion.

That's why Hawks should be Unknown, he lacks any real feats beyond stabbing or cutting some people.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Alright I'll go edit Hawks' page.

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

When she was disguised as Camie, Izuku was struggling in her grip and couldn't break out. He ended up using Full Cowl to get her off him. Or am I misremembering?

I checked and in the manga Bakugo didn't punch/elbow Twice when they freed him, so Twice's stats are very iffy.

We shouldn't rate people higher with weapons, or we'd have to do that for every single character profile on this wiki. The energy of their attacks doesn't change so it's not something that should be mention on AP, which is a measure of energy in a person's attack.

But feel free to disagree on that, it's just my opinion.

That's why Hawks should be Unknown, he lacks any real feats beyond stabbing or cutting some people.

No your remembering the Camie scene correctly

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Rusty I should put his durability at Unknown but higher against flames right?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Idk, whatever you all agree with.

I'm neutral about that.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Alright I'm going Unknown in general. Can everyone else give their opinions on this?

 

[Jackof_noTrades068]

Alright I'm going Unknown in general. Can everyone else give their opinions on this?

Although I’d prefer Possibly 8-A vs Flames but if you do Unknown Higher vs Flames I won’t have much issue with it

don’t forget Kamui woods too he needs a nerf