Hatou Manabu

[Betaredex]

Furthermore, within the context of this wiki, shouldn't we assume a unifying multiversal theory to be M-theory simply because that's what's currently used in our tiering system?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Betredex Still nothing was said about dimensions, we don't just arbitrarily assuming every fictional universe is equal to our own even if it has a lot of similarities, especially when we are dealing with dimensions, as we are talking about orders of infinity here, which as such requires a good deal of proof to determine what level of the dimensional scale characters fall.

Anyway going with Donttalk's suggestion here, think he sums it up nicely with this:

"On the nature of her existence I would say that she isn't an abstract entity, but a non-corporeal entity, which doesn't interact with the fundamental forces and can only influence the universe by collapsing its wave function through observing. I don't think she is 12-D or anything, given that she isn't outside in sense of position, but in sense of interaction/observation."

Manabu isn't some higher dimensional being, she is just outside of observation and can cause the collapse of the multiverse due to being able to observe it, making all the undetermined parallel worlds become determined.

 

[Betaredex]

My argument isn't simply based on the fact that "it's set in modern day Japan." The descriptions of quantum physics in Manabu's multiverse correspond to our own to the point where a theory of everything in their multiverse would apply to our own. Manabu even mentions that the theory would unify strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force, gravitational force, and electromagnetic force, and also that it represents the maximum scale observable by humans. This corresponds heavily enough to M-theory that I think its valid to interpret it as such.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Still nothing mentioned about dimensions, and ultimately don't see it being relevant anyway, nothing was said about manabu becoming a higher dimensional being or anything, she doesn't even have a body, flesh, particle or anything, she is simply a nonexistent being, who through becoming the first observer of the universe, caused all the infinite indeterminate parallel worlds/possibilities to become determinate, hence they all got destroyed not due to her power but due to how physics works, leaving only a single one.

 

[Betaredex]

I was under the assumption that in order to observe an 11-D system fully, Manabu would have to be 11-D herself. Thinking back on the chapter, though, she does describe her existence as "nowhere" or "ceasing to exist", etc. However, in addition to your explanation, it could be interpreted that she exists outside the multiverse (which was, I think, the interpretation you made when you argued she was 12-D. Perhaps dimensions don't apply to her (that was my interpretation when I made the original profile.) All in all, I think I'll reread chapters 16 and 17 for the umpteenth time. Also, thanks to everyone for their insight, it's been both the most civil and also the most enlightening powerlevel discussion I've ever had.

 

[Betaredex]

Thanks for making the profile, I'll look through it now.

 

[Betaredex]

Alright, here goes:

- I think Tier: Unknown is definitely appropriate, especially given what I mentioned in my earlier post.

- I'm curious as to the reasoning behind "Stamina: High"

- I still am thoroughly of the opinion that she is Nigh-Omniscient, despite Omnipresence being difficult to define with our limited understanding of her existence

- I think Probability Manipulation doesn't really give an accurate description of how her ability functions. Quantum Manipulation fits the bill perfectly, though

- Age should be "not applicable", because time doesn't apply to her

- I included "Immortality (Type 10)" on the original profile, is that still applicable here? (Type 9 instead, perhaps?)

- I would change Range to "High Complex Multiversal" for the reasons I outlined earlier

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Stamina is just something left overed from what copied off a a profile when making it, should be unknown in this case.

Explain your reason for her being Nigh Omniscient again?

Agreed with quantumm manipulation.

Agreed with her age.

 

[Betaredex]

I gave her Nigh Omniscience because she can observe every point in spacetime, but not from Yukari's perspective.

 

[Betaredex]

On second thought, range should probably be "Unknown" for the same reasons as her tier.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

She can't observe every point in space-time though, she can just observe people from multiple parallel worlds, saying she can observe every point in space-time would mean she can see the past and future as well, like at all at the same time.

She transcended human observation but don't think it makes her all knowing.

 

[Betaredex]

Additionally, Time Travel seems inapplicable to her, for the same reason Age is inapplicable. Like Probability Manipulation, it's a bit misleading.

 

[Betaredex]

She can't observe every point in space-time though, she can just observe people from multiple parallel worlds, saying she can observe every point in space-time would mean she can see the past and future as well, like at all at the same time.
She transcended human observation but don't think it makes her all knowing.

Because of how the superposition works, all of her alternate realities exist at once, including the ones at different points in time. Her ability to "time travel" stems from observing a certain superposition, not actually traveling back in time (take for example, when she observed the universe where she was a magical girl, before JAUNT was founded)

She still appears to progress through time linearly, but that could be simply for convenience. Either way, because she can observe a reality without being immanent in that reality, time is irrelevant to the power of her observation.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

When she observes multiple people, she only sees what they do, not why, plus she wasn't able to take the perspective of people who aren't from japan apparently since she was only able to take the perspective of others due to going back in her bloodline where they have their family crossed.

We also don't know how many people she can observe at the same time, i certainly don't think she can observe everyone, and everything. Don't remember any proof of that.

 

[Betaredex]

I'm referring to her narration after learning the theory of everything. A direct example would be how she was talking to Yukari in the hospital, without the use of another person as a proxy. My intepretation of this is that the reason she couldn't observe reality from the perspective of a person she had little relation to was because it was more difficult for her to understand their qualia. Likewise, it's even more difficult to observe the universe from the perspective of something not human. However, the theory of everything defined the multiverse, and through understanding it, Manabu could comprehend qualia that were beyond human understanding. Of course, Yukari is the exception. Whatever the reason, the point stands that she could observe multiversal events from a non-human perspective after learning the theory of everything.

 

[Betaredex]

Updating the article, feel free to revert the changes if you disagree with any of it.