Hatou Manabu revision

[DontTalkDT]

So I have finished my respect blog on Hatou Manabu, that lays out my understanding of her powers and what is happening in the story. It could probably still use some improvements here and there.


At the end are my suggestions for her stats. I have setteled for Wall level instead of Unknown in the end, 'cause if we have some quantifiable feats, why not tier with them?


What isn't included is why I consider certain abilities currently on her page unfitting.

However, that is usually hard to debate on ones own.

For certain things I simply don't see where they come from (E.g. abstract existence. I see nothing suggesting she literally became the abstract form of the Anthropic Principle) or I consider them just strangely classified (E.g. giving causality manipulation for changing the past)


Opinions on my deliberations?


That aside, a minor topic of debate: Is there some nice quote regarding "acting in imitation of light"? It seems to be somewhat of her catchphrase and personally I would prefer something like that for the quote on her profile.

And if we are already talking about minor things, how about we change her picture to a full body pic?

 

[Antvasima]

I trust DontTalkDT's sense of judgement.

 

[DontTalkDT]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

This seems fine to me, but you can ask some other trusted VS Battles Staff members (bureaucrats, administrators, discussion moderators) to comment here if you wish.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am not an evaluatiing staff but I think the OP is fine.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

 

[DontTalkDT]

OK

Can I take that as agreement?

 

[Antvasima]

Here are some of the less frequently asked staff members that you can select from to ask to give input when there are no knowledgeable members available:

SomebodyData

Dragonmasterxyz

Celestial Pegasus

Dark649

Monarch Laciel

Saikou The Lewd King

Gemmysaur

Ultima Reality

DarkDragonMedeus

AKM Sama

Dargoo Faust

MrKingOfNegativity

Theglassman12

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Andytrenom

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Crabwhale

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Can I take that as agreement?

Yes.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Also agree.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this can probably be applied then. DontTalkDT usually has a very good sense of judgement.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ok, since nobody wants to disagree I will start applying it now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Should we close this thread?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Let's keep it open in case someone has something to say after the edit is made.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unsubscribe to the thread then, as I have so much to do.

 

[Betaredex]

Just finished reading the thread, I appreciate the clarity of your argument.

The one part of this interpretation that strikes me as strange is that there's no indication of whether that observer outside of the box who determines Manabu's observation actually exists. From Manabu's perspective, it's impossible to conclude whether her observation "destroyed" all the alternate possibilities and the universe is now deterministic, or if her observation was determined by an external observation.

 

[Betaredex]

Also, I'd appreciate clarification on one thing: When you use the deduction that the Qualia-verse functions on the Copenhagen interpretation, are you implying that:

a. Possibilities are not 4D constructs

b. Manabu doesn't "destroy" alternate possibilities by observing them

c. Both

 

[Betaredex]

Also, I'm concerned that this interpretation will cause a lot of inconclusive matchups, since there's no way to gauge what is a possibility of the universe that Manabu can observe and what isn't. I very much doubt that the existence of magic was already permitted within the laws of Manabu's universe, and wasn't defined arbitrarily by Manabu's observation.

 

[DontTalkDT]

The one part of this interpretation that strikes me as strange is that there's no indication of whether that observer outside of the box who determines Manabu's observation actually exists. From Manabu's perspective, it's impossible to conclude whether her observation "destroyed" all the alternate possibilities and the universe is now deterministic, or if her observation was determined by an external observation.

I can't quite follow. I don't know if there is some higher observer than Manabu that we just don't really know about, but how does that relate to my argument or Hatou's powers in general?

Also, I'd appreciate clarification on one thing: When you use the deduction that the Qualia-verse functions on the Copenhagen interpretation, are you implying that:

a. Possibilities are not 4D constructs

b. Manabu doesn't "destroy" alternate possibilities by observing them

c. Both

Whether possibilities are 4-D constructs is hard to say. All possibilities kinda somewhat exist in the same space. Ultimately it's a question of interpretation and one the verse isn't eager to answer at that. My argument would be that it doesn't matter either way.

When it comes to destruction, Manabu destroys possibilities exactly as much as every human that opens Schrödingers Cat Box does. So not in an attack potency kinda way at all. (Whether collapsing a superposition into a certain position is a act of destruction is an existential problem, but that as well should not matter for her ranking)

Also, I'm concerned that this interpretation will cause a lot of inconclusive matchups, since there's no way to gauge what is a possibility of the universe that Manabu can observe and what isn't. I very much doubt that the existence of magic was already permitted within the laws of Manabu's universe, and wasn't defined arbitrarily by Manabu's observation.

There is no real way to avoid it being hard to tell which possibilities exist. Hatou explicitly can't create the possibility Yukari observes so she clearly can't make all arbitrary changes.

On the magic thing: It isn't explained whether it was possible without changing the laws or not, so ultimately its a matter of opinion.

However, it is explicitly suggested that her superpowers aren't necessarily supernatural, but could also have some other mechanism. Mutations are mentioned as a possibility for example.

In addition she only long after the magic thing theorizes about being able to change the laws of the universe. So if she had done it, it would have been by accident. And she didn't reference it later on when she formulates the theory of being able to change the laws, so (if the writer makes her act consistent, which is of course not necessarily the case) I don't think she herself sees it as proof of the theory being true.

In the end the burden of proof is on the favorable assumption, which should settle the matter.

 

[Betaredex]

For the first point, I assumed your reasoning behind not considering Manabu collapsing the superposition as destruction of some number of possible worlds was that there could be an external observer that keeps everything in a superposition. That was a misunderstanding on my part, I guess.

In the end, I guess Qualia is just too vague to properly consolidate it with the wiki's tiering system. I don't think there's enough conclusive evidence to settle this either way. I might end up reading the LN again, perhaps they go into more detail there and have some explanation. The only thing I remember about the LN was that they turned the yuri up a notch lol