HaloHammer Series Discussion

[Qawsedf234]

His comparison of Spartans being better than most Space Marines is definitely the most controversial imo

I watched the video and his debate about Spartans vs Space Marines and it isn't a controversial take imo. The controversial take is him saying the "Forerunners would beat WiH Necrons" or "Covenant Ships are comparable to Imperium Ships" which seems far more of a hot point.

Spartans are more agile than Marines, he is right that a decent swath of Marines are very basic tactics wise and Spartans wouldn't be rolled. Imo the biggest thing is that he thinks that the UNSC weapon can damage Space Marine armor (some can but the assault rifles are questionable outside of vulnerable spots) while the reverse isn't true about the bolter.

The debate with the Warhammer guy was bad though. He brought basically no evidence other than memes while Pancreas was bringing legitimate feats and low showings.

 

[PsychoWarper]

I feel like alot of people don’t understand how insane the WiH Necrons where. A big point is that the Silent King destroyed alot of the Necrons more dangerous superweapons so everything they have left was deemed not bad enough to destroy.

While I like to sometimes oversell SMs superiority over Spartans I can admit it would be a genuine battle and plenty of Marines would die. Imo the biggest difference comes down to the power of the Bolter being far more damaging then the basic Spartan weapons and how hard SMs can be to kill. I think that gives Marines an edge which leads to them winning more then losing but they do certainly suffer loses.

Its kinda depressing how many people only know 40k through memes.

 

[Crabwhale]

While I like to sometimes oversell SMs superiority over Spartans I can admit it would be a genuine battle and plenty of Marines would die. Imo the biggest difference comes down to the power of the Bolter being far more damaging then the basic Spartan weapons and how hard SMs can be to kill. I think that gives Marines an edge which leads to them winning more then losing but they do certainly suffer loses.

That and also there's not like a few dozen ******* Space Marines lol

 

[Qawsedf234]

I feel like alot of people don’t understand how insane the WiH Necrons where. A big point is that the Silent King destroyed alot of the Necrons more dangerous superweapons so everything they have left was deemed not bad enough to destroy.

While I like to sometimes oversell SMs superiority over Spartans I can admit it would be a genuine battle and plenty of Marines would die. Imo the biggest difference comes down to the power of the Bolter being far more damaging then the basic Spartan weapons and how hard SMs can be to kill. I think that gives Marines an edge which leads to them winning more then losing but they do certainly suffer loses.

Its kinda depressing how many people only know 40k through memes.

Yeah, generally speaking in my view the average Space Marine is pretty comparable to Spartans, with the caveat being that Space Marines can get much stronger while Spartans really don't.

In addition, barring salvaged gear, Spartan weapons are worse than the Bolter on average.

But yeah the meme lore being so prominent is more negative than positive.

That and also there's not like a few dozen ******* Space Marines lol

I think canonically there's like 40-ish Spartan IIs, a few hundred Spartan IIIs and something like 600 Spartan IVs. Iirc three Space Marine Chapter contain more super soldiers than the UNSC has made.

Though it is waaaay easier to make a Spartan than it is to make an Astarte. One guy during the Human-Covenant War said they could train 100,000 Spartan IIIs in a year after a few decades. Which blows SM production rates out of the water.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Spartans are more agile than Marines, he is right that a decent swath of Marines are very basic tactics wise and Spartans wouldn't be rolled. Imo the biggest thing is that he thinks that the UNSC weapon can damage Space Marine armor (some can but the assault rifles are questionable outside of vulnerable spots) while the reverse isn't true about the bolter.

Honestly thought that would be a more controversial opinion lol. Everywhere I go it seems Space Marines are praised as being the most powerful power armor wearing soldiers. Though I guess appearances can be deceiving, I mean even in the video he talks about how a Spartan would only look like a normal person wearing power armor rather than passing for a Space Marine. You’d think 500 years in the future the UNSC could use better weapons than 7.62 rounds lol

 

[Qawsedf234]

Spartan would only look like a normal person wearing power armor rather than passing for a Space Marine

He'd be right. The thing that makes Space Marines noticeable is that they're very wide. Like Master Chief is 6'10" but he's proportionally 6'10" and only weighs 287 lbs. Captain Titus is 7'2" and weighs 750 lbs. He is so wide.

Most Spartans would just look like weirdly tall Tempetsus Scions or Inquisition Power Armor soldiers.

You’d think 500 years in the future the UNSC could use better weapons than 7.62 rounds lol

Tbf the Heavy Stubber is just a bigger browning .50 Cal. If a big bullet works it works

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I did like his idea about the UNSC potentially just hiding away from all other factions while sending out ONI spies, ODST’s, and Spartan Fireteams to gather information and technology they could reverse engineer until they could hold their ground, and does seem in character for what the UNSC did, trying to hide their most valuable planets like Reach and Earth from the Covenant.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

He'd be right. The thing that makes Space Marines noticeable is that they're very wide. Like Master Chief is 6'10" but he's proportionally 6'10" and only weighs 287 lbs. Captain Titus is 7'2" and weighs 750 lbs. He is so wide.

Most Spartans would just look like weirdly tall Tempetsus Scions or Inquisition Power Armor soldiers.

Now I’m imagining a Spartan getting on a Space Marine’s back and punching them to death from behind like they do to Hunters and even tanks, and the Space Marine can’t grab them off cause they’re too wide lol

 

[Qawsedf234]

Now I’m imagining a Spartan getting on a Space Marine’s back and punching them to death from behind like they do to Hunters and even tanks, and the Space Marine can’t grab them off cause they’re too wide lol

When being thicc has consequences.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

When being thicc has consequences.

The genetically perfect Space Marine when the orphan child soldier jumps on its back with a plasma grenade and sticks it in his armor.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I did like his idea about the UNSC potentially just hiding away from all other factions while sending out ONI spies, ODST’s, and Spartan Fireteams to gather information and technology they could reverse engineer until they could hold their ground, and does seem in character for what the UNSC did, trying to hide their most valuable planets like Reach and Earth from the Covenant.

To me while it would work im not sure it would work for as long as he implied. All it would take is an Astropath or Rogue Trader finding a planet for it to snow ball.

Considering the UNSC is already fracturing even with the Covenant I don't see how the Imperium can't exploit it. Plus I feel like the tech stuff goes both ways, since the Mechanicus is more willing to reverse engineer human tech vs xeno.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

To me while it would work im not sure it would work for as long as he implied. All it would take is an Astropath or Rogue Trader finding a planet for it to snow ball.

Considering the UNSC is already fracturing even with the Covenant I don't see how the Imperium can't exploit it. Plus I feel like the tech stuff goes both ways, since the Mechanicus is more willing to reverse engineer human tech vs xeno.

I feel like the scenario is supposed to take the factions of Halo at the height of their power, hence why he didn’t use the Covenant during the Great Schism or the UNSC at the end of the Human-Covenant war.

Does that really even help? I mean the UNSC has very little to offer the Imperium tech wise that would be worth it to reverse engineer. Probably the best thing would be the Smart AI’s but I’ve heard the Imperium doesn’t like those lol. I think it’s more the fact that reverse engineering Imperium tech is more useful than the opposite happening.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Does that really even help? I mean the UNSC has very little to offer the Imperium tech wise that would be worth it to reverse engineer. Probably the best thing would be the Smart AI’s but I’ve heard the Imperium doesn’t like those lol. I think it’s more the fact that reverse engineering Imperium tech is more useful than the opposite happening.

They got plenty:

• FTL travel that doesn't involve the warp (to slow for anything major but makes short jumps far more safer)
• Astra Militarum and the Schola would literally start civil wars over getting the technology of the SPARTAN program. Imagine whether effect of what Tens of Millions of Spartan IIIs or IVs could do.
• Portable energy shields that are easier to make than than Iron Halos would be sought after. Imagine how much more effective the SoB would be if every soldier had even a basic energy shield.
• Basic medical facilities in Halo can easily cure cancer and solves most disease. The ability to cheaply spam that would be helpful in some capacity

Everything else is worse though for the most part. Maybe the stealth fields?

 

[CinnabarManx421]

They got plenty:

• FTL travel that doesn't involve the warp (to slow for anything major but makes short jumps far more safer)
• Astra Militarum and the Schola would literally start civil wars over getting the technology of the SPARTAN program. Imagine whether effect of what Tens of Millions of Spartan IIIs or IVs could do.
• Portable energy shields that are easier to make than than Iron Halos would be sought after. Imagine how much more effective the SoB would be if every soldier had even a basic energy shield.
• Basic medical facilities in Halo can easily cure cancer and solves most disease. The ability to cheaply spam that would be helpful in some capacity

Everything else is worse though for the most part. Maybe the stealth fields?

I’m guessing energy shields are not that common in 40k? Didn’t know Halo had an advantage there. And yeah Slipspace would be pretty good technology to get their hands on.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I’m guessing energy shields are not that common in 40k?

For the Imperium's infantry it's just Rosarios and Iron Halos. Both of which are pretty rare and work differently from Halo shields. While they're maybe better, Halo energy shields are far more spammable production wise. Or at least they can be.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Stuff like this just makes me mad we can’t have more official crossover stuff that goes wild like the videos do, and they’re just theorizing stuff. Closest thing I’ve seen to something tangible is a series by a smallish YouTuber I like called k0noa, who did a Star Wars vs Halo Vs Warhammer Arma 3 series, though it’s mostly just ground battles and not really any diplomacy or tech comparisons.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Also I did find the concept of the UNSC forced to becoming wandering Nomads pretty funny. Basically turned them into the Quarians from Mass Effect. Though that might give them time to build more Infinity Class ships for that purpose, and anybody that tries to bother the nomadic fleet is gonna get a hell of a lot of MAC Rounds in their face.

 

[Crabwhale]

Now I’m imagining a Spartan getting on a Space Marine’s back and punching them to death from behind like they do to Hunters and even tanks, and the Space Marine can’t grab them off cause they’re too wide lol

The pauldrons are mechanically articulated so they're more mobile than they look. Worst case scenario Marine just drops backwards and tries crushing the Spartan or grappling them.

He'd be right. The thing that makes Space Marines noticeable is that they're very wide. Like Master Chief is 6'10" but he's proportionally 6'10" and only weighs 287 lbs. Captain Titus is 7'2" and weighs 750 lbs. He is so wide.

Marines aren't so much wide as dense and ******* tall. Their skeletons are way thicker, not to mention their fused ribs and their infusion with ceramic material to make them tougher. Titus' height is actually a bit of a goof up, since nowadays Marines tend on the side of 8 feet (we average this out as 7'6 for the average Marine as a halfway point between their old interpretation and their new interpretation)

If you actually look at Space Marine art without armor, they're more like scaled up heavyweight MMA fighters:

It's just the armor that makes them look that thick.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Titus' height is actually a bit of a goof up, since nowadays Marines tend on the side of 8 feet (we average this out as 7'6 for the average Marine as a halfway point between their old interpretation and their new interpretation)

Nah, canonically Primaris Marines a foot taller than First Born. On page 34 of Wrath and Glory RPG it even gives an average height chart: First Born are on average 7'1" to 7'6" and Primaris are on average 8'1" to 8'6".

It's just the armor that makes them look that thick

Don't take wide Marines away from me.

 

[Crabwhale]

Don't take wide Marines away from me.

If you try to take my 7'6 on average Marines away from me, I'm taking away your wide Marines from you.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If you try to take my 7'6 on average Marines away from me, I'm taking away your wide Marines from you.

Fine, but as a compromise we have to canonize 11 foot tall Terminator Marines.

 

[Crabwhale]

This is fine (the armor adds like 3 feet)