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Goku’s lifting strength

Gilad_Hyperstar said:
They should scale with the accepted multipliers exactly like AP and Speed are scaled
Click to expand...
The issue is that unlike AP and Speed which don't contradict the multipliers (mostly), lifting strength has a plethora of anti-feats and low showings. They should still be rated of course, but people don't like it when their Tier 2 characters can be out benched by most versions of Spider-Man.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The issue is that unlike AP and Speed which don't contradict the multipliers (mostly), lifting strength has a plethora of anti-feats and low showings. They should still be rated of course, but people don't like it when their Tier 2 characters can be out benched by most versions of Spider-Man.
Click to expand...
For example? Also, that would still apply to DBS since DBS doesn't really have a lot of LS feats
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
For example?
Click to expand...
  • Goku with his hollow bird bones weighs 60 kg and struggled immensely when he weighed 6 Tons
  • Briefs thought Vegeta would legit die under 300gs where his max weight was 18 tons
  • Goku said that when he trained with Kami his child version couldn't handle 10gs
  • Goku struggled lifting 40 tons, though this is debatably because he was flying and that seemingly nerfs their already low strength even more
  • SSB Vegeta in the manga couldn't lift 1,000 tons
  • UI Goku in the manga struggled with grappling the Class M to G Rock Moro
Even in DBS where they get their best feats they still only top out at Class K or M.
 
The gravity example is false equivalency as high gravity negates durability via blocking blood and oxygen flow. It isn't the sheer weight of being X times heavier that makes gravity so brutal. Also, surviving on 10x gravity also has studies saying that are bare minimum, creatures need to be able to withstand 100x the force of their own weight to survive on such gravity.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The issue is that unlike AP and Speed which don't contradict the multipliers (mostly), lifting strength has a plethora of anti-feats and low showings. They should still be rated of course, but people don't like it when their Tier 2 characters can be out benched by most versions of Spider-Man.
Click to expand...
Soo not showing stats cause people don't like DBS characters to be fodder?
 
That still means it's more so lack of resistance to high gravity. Surviving on X times gravity is evidence you can carry x times your own body weight, but being able to lift x times your own body weight isn't proof you can withstand high gravity. SomebodyData or better yet DontTalkDT will be saying the same thing if they were hear.
 
Hello since everybody is here and this is on topic, lets use the accepted multipliers to scale the lifting strength with this or those class M feats in super.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Hello since everybody is here and this is on topic, lets use the accepted multipliers to scale the lifting strength with this or those class M feats in super.
Click to expand...
I’m not against the idea but if people say Kid Goku’s feat is an outlier then it’ll be a run for your money.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Hello since everybody is here and this is on topic, lets use the accepted multipliers to scale the lifting strength with this or those class M feats in super.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure even with multipliers the feat is still gonna be class m just very high end class m
 
Qawsedf234 said:
  • Goku with his hollow bird bones weighs 60 kg and struggled immensely when he weighed 6 Tons
  • Briefs thought Vegeta would legit die under 300gs where his max weight was 18 tons
  • Goku said that when he trained with Kami his child version couldn't handle 10gs
  • Goku struggled lifting 40 tons, though this is debatably because he was flying and that seemingly nerfs their already low strength even more
  • SSB Vegeta in the manga couldn't lift 1,000 tons
  • UI Goku in the manga struggled with grappling the Class M to G Rock Moro
Even in DBS where they get their best feats they still only top out at Class K or M.
Click to expand...
Concerning the infamous 40 tons scene on Grand kai's planet, you can't use that to downplay Goku's LS because it's been stated that they can't lift many weights while flying.
The weight exponentially increases the amount of Ki to maintain flight, which is why it's considered Ki training in the first place. This kinda explains why Magetta can't fly.

Primary Source that was translated by Herms: Super exciting Guide Page 58

"It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. Goku’s never shown using Bukujutsu during any of his gravity training on Kaio’s or in the spaceship (at least not in the manga, that I can remember). It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book's interview. " - Herms https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9953&start=80

Also the Magetta/Vegeta scene : They can apply more force than their weight would suggest:
Magetta probably used his Ki as well which together with his weight made it hard for Vegeta to lift him...




If you argue that it was still an issue of lifting strength, that would mean that Vegeta in base can only lift 20 tons which is absurd because he could move and train while weighing 18 tons in base without God Ki amp in normal Z.....
 
SirAlex09 said:
Concerning the infamous 40 tons scene on Grand kai's planet, you can't use that to downplay Goku's LS because it's been stated that they can't lift many weights while flying.
The weight exponentially increases the amount of Ki to maintain flight, which is why it's considered Ki training in the first place. This kinda explains why Magetta can't fly.

Primary Source that was translated by Herms: Super exciting Guide Page 58

"It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. Goku’s never shown using Bukujutsu during any of his gravity training on Kaio’s or in the spaceship (at least not in the manga, that I can remember). It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book's interview. " - Herms https://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9953&start=80

Also the Magetta/Vegeta scene : They can apply more force than their weight would suggest:
Magetta probably used his Ki as well which together with his weight made it hard for Vegeta to lift him...




If you argue that it was still an issue of lifting strength, that would mean that Vegeta in base can only lift 20 tons which is absurd because he could move and train while weighing 18 tons in base without God Ki amp in normal Z.....
Click to expand...

Not to mention that e was on a planet with 10x gravity. But I think the point is that it's inconsistent, since if we use multipliers then we'd get ridiculous numbers like class E but we won't have feats to back it, but actually anti feats like vegeta's asinine anti feat where he can't even lift 1000 tons.
 
You could say that Magetta was actively pressing against Vegeta which would be why Vegeta couldn't lift him

We see many times in the show that stronger characters can pin weaker characters by actively pressing their legs against them, making their victim unable to lift the foot despite them not weighing all that much
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Not to mention that e was on a planet with 10x gravity. But I think the point is that it's inconsistent, since if we use multipliers then we'd get ridiculous numbers like class E but we won't have feats to back it, but actually anti feats like vegeta's asinine anti feat where he can't even lift 1000 tons.
Click to expand...

the Magetta feat wasn't an anti feat though. Magetta was applying force. Ofc irl you can't apply more than your weight with your foot like that but in Dragonball this is possible as shown in the video with Vegeta standing on a plane where he had to apply force perpendicular to the flight direction.
 
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