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Who is stronger, Canon Goku or Non-canon Goku?
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Goku (GT) vs Goku (Revival of F)?
- Thread starter AnimeFanboy2916
- Start date
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GT Goku
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GT Goku in is base form easily defeated both Final Form Frieza and Super Perfect Cell in his base form, and was able to match Uub, the reincarnation of Kid Buu.
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No, because we don't know how much power they gained in hell. For Uub i talking about in the very first espiode of GT when they were fightning each other after goku trained with uub for over 5 years. Which Vegeta? GT or Z?
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Did you use the End of Z version or the God and Gods Version of Vegeta. And the case on Goku you just said yourself we don't know how much they're power grew while in hell, or if they can even train in said place, because that's filler. The very first episode, we still didn't know how much Uub's power had increased nor did we have any feats. He fought Baby as Majuub and that's it, He went agaisnt Goku and we didn't know how much Goku had grown either, all we know is that Uub had the same potential capacity as Kid Buu if he were to reach his full potential without modifiers like Kaioken.
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It was one of Supreme Kai's flashbacks. I think the first one as he explains the Z warriors about Buu.
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Buu's power had waned considerably from then, and the capacity Uub had was from the Buu at that moment of reincarnation against the Z Fighters. The Star Busting from DBZ itself came from when it was stated that Buu could have destroyed the earth 10 times over with his Planet Burst technique. So I still don't understand where Galaxy Busting was placed towards GT, because just like the Broly shit, that seems to have happened through a chain reaction of planets and stars destroying themselves, like a domino effect.
Ah, and one more thing. Akira Toriyama also stated that, after the 10 year skip (between what I'm assuming will be a Trio of movies or Dragon Ball Super as the last show and tell of potential powers). Goku and Vegeta had met their peak abilities somewhere around the time of the latest martial arts contest with Uub. People also hate to forget that Goku LOST power due to becoming a kid once again after that. This is canon for both the split of Battle of Gods and GT. So either Goku was still a Star Buster (I'll go for Large Star busting no biggie) at that time or you guys are wanking the shit out of the powers that SSJ4 has along with Omega Shenron.
Ah, and one more thing. Akira Toriyama also stated that, after the 10 year skip (between what I'm assuming will be a Trio of movies or Dragon Ball Super as the last show and tell of potential powers). Goku and Vegeta had met their peak abilities somewhere around the time of the latest martial arts contest with Uub. People also hate to forget that Goku LOST power due to becoming a kid once again after that. This is canon for both the split of Battle of Gods and GT. So either Goku was still a Star Buster (I'll go for Large Star busting no biggie) at that time or you guys are wanking the shit out of the powers that SSJ4 has along with Omega Shenron.
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'"Goku LOST power due to becoming a kid once again after that"
I don't know where your getting that from, goku never lost his power.........
I don't know where your getting that from, goku never lost his power.........
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The main thing that puts the GT continuity above the canon characters is Cell being taken as a legitimate Solar System buster there, and a feat from the Frieza Saga that gives them FTL combat speed. If Cell were taken as a Solar System buster in canon, I'm fairly confident the BOG characters and beyond would be on par with or at least close to GT.
"Buu's power had waned considerably from then"
Where did you get this? From the hypothesis that absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai weakened Kid Buu and made Fat Buu weaker than other forms? The feat in question here is a feat of Pure Kid Buu, not Fat Buu, and I see no reason why his power would have dropped over time.
"The Star Busting from DBZ itself came from when it was stated that Buu could have destroyed the earth 10 times over with his Planet Burst technique"
Dub line.
"People also hate to forget that Goku LOST power due to becoming a kid once again after that"
He was still capable of holding his own against an opponent stronger than Buu as only a basic Super Saiyan, and he easily defeated both Frieza and Cell in Hell (because HFIL sounds stupid) without even transforming.
"Buu's power had waned considerably from then"
Where did you get this? From the hypothesis that absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai weakened Kid Buu and made Fat Buu weaker than other forms? The feat in question here is a feat of Pure Kid Buu, not Fat Buu, and I see no reason why his power would have dropped over time.
"The Star Busting from DBZ itself came from when it was stated that Buu could have destroyed the earth 10 times over with his Planet Burst technique"
Dub line.
"People also hate to forget that Goku LOST power due to becoming a kid once again after that"
He was still capable of holding his own against an opponent stronger than Buu as only a basic Super Saiyan, and he easily defeated both Frieza and Cell in Hell (because HFIL sounds stupid) without even transforming.
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It was from an interview with Akira Toriyama, I just can't find it right now. I'll look for it a bring it back.
The main thing that puts the GT continuity above the canon characters is Cell being taken as a legitimate Solar System buster there, and a feat from the Frieza Saga that gives them FTL combat speed. If Cell were taken as a Solar System buster in canon, I'm fairly confident the BOG characters and beyond would be on par with or at least close to GT.
Most of what Cell said was either hyperbole or full or arrogance, you can't really take what he says with a grain of salt because he felt himself superior to everyone thus calling himself "Perfect" Cell. In the merchandising and everything else that was produced after said statements were made, Cell went on to say "Take Your Planet With You" or in Xenoverse [can destroy small planets in one hit] .
Where did you get this? From the hypothesis that absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai weakened Kid Buu and made Fat Buu weaker than other forms? The feat in question here is a feat of Pure Kid Buu, not Fat Buu, and I see no reason why his power would have dropped over time.
Fat Buu was still apart of Super Buu who was the strongest form of Kid Buu. Either way, the reason why Majin Buu needed to absorb the energies of both SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta were because his powers had decreased. Not that difficult to understand man.
Dub line.
I'll give you that one.
He was still capable of holding his own against an opponent stronger than Buu as only a basic Super Saiyan, and he easily defeated both Frieza and Cell in Hell (because HFIL sounds stupid) without even transforming.
So he was capable of holding back two planet busters... while at best he was capable of Star Busting power in his Base Form at best... Yep. That's excellent reasoning... It's also why people can't quantify DBGT well, because it's tier is shit. Remember Gohan?
The main thing that puts the GT continuity above the canon characters is Cell being taken as a legitimate Solar System buster there, and a feat from the Frieza Saga that gives them FTL combat speed. If Cell were taken as a Solar System buster in canon, I'm fairly confident the BOG characters and beyond would be on par with or at least close to GT.
Most of what Cell said was either hyperbole or full or arrogance, you can't really take what he says with a grain of salt because he felt himself superior to everyone thus calling himself "Perfect" Cell. In the merchandising and everything else that was produced after said statements were made, Cell went on to say "Take Your Planet With You" or in Xenoverse [can destroy small planets in one hit] .
Where did you get this? From the hypothesis that absorbing the Grand Supreme Kai weakened Kid Buu and made Fat Buu weaker than other forms? The feat in question here is a feat of Pure Kid Buu, not Fat Buu, and I see no reason why his power would have dropped over time.
Fat Buu was still apart of Super Buu who was the strongest form of Kid Buu. Either way, the reason why Majin Buu needed to absorb the energies of both SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta were because his powers had decreased. Not that difficult to understand man.
Dub line.
I'll give you that one.
He was still capable of holding his own against an opponent stronger than Buu as only a basic Super Saiyan, and he easily defeated both Frieza and Cell in Hell (because HFIL sounds stupid) without even transforming.
So he was capable of holding back two planet busters... while at best he was capable of Star Busting power in his Base Form at best... Yep. That's excellent reasoning... It's also why people can't quantify DBGT well, because it's tier is shit. Remember Gohan?
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Power level wise I think SSJ4 ws stated to be 1.5 billion. Goku was fightning on Par with GF who was 100 quintillion. The difference between 1.5 billion and 100 quintillion is literally one in the 10's of billions. 66666666666.7 billion difference to be exact. This is an utter rape upon rapes in canon Goku's favor.
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Why not? This is a fight between two charecters who use the exact type of powerscale, not a random charecter who doesn't use it. Power levels and sensing a one point was even a major plot point in the Nameck Saga.
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So we don't use thnem because we don't like them? What do you mean exactly?
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^You might think that, but there's a lot of people here that disagree with you, and unless you bring a reasonable argument instead of false claims and invalid statements, no one is going take you seriously....
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OK then. Let's see, where should I start... Goku loses Instant Transmission as Kid, but can still do everything else he only learned as an adult, he also can't properly use SSJ2 (which takes less power than SSJ3) as a kid despite his own son being capable of using it with no issues and being far stronger than Gohan was at that time in his base this should ring some bells for you on how things are going downhill just from what I just listed... The powers an SSJ4 possesses and its limits are never actually seen thoroughly and sometimes are weaker than Base Kid Goku's own power, Super 17 anyone? And again, Goku's fight with Rildo that claims that Rildo is stronger than Buu... Goku beats him in Base Form, after being turned into a child and having much less power than his adult-base. Super Hellfire 17 is just... Oh god... Goku's FTL feat in base as a child. The original side characters are all far weaker than their Z counterparts, again I point at Gohan who is nowhere near his father who has already peaked at his power (as I said before it was Toriyama in an interview who said this, I'll try to find it but Goku was pushing 50 - 60 though either way). Vegeta-enhanced Baby needing two Galick Guns to destroy a Medium Sized Planet when by you guys standards he should be capable of busting Solar Systems with ease, something that should have been done with an ordinary ki blast. Omega Shenron not destroying Mr. Satan with a kick when he hasn't shown any mercy to anyone and isn't like Cell who thought that killing someone so weak was beneath him. Goku having a ******* tail, after Kami used magic to make sure that he'd never have one again...
Inconsistencies and fallacies everywhere.
Inconsistencies and fallacies everywhere.
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^I'm not even going read the rest of that comment to many invalid statements and claims....
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"Most of what Cell said was either hyperbole or full or arrogance, you can't really take what he says with a grain of salt because he felt himself superior to everyone thus calling himself "Perfect" Cell. In the merchandising and everything else that was produced after said statements were made, Cell went on to say "Take Your Planet With You" or in Xenoverse [can destroy small planets in one hit] ."
It would have been nice of you specified which point in the video Cell said that, because I had to watch a 19-minute video for one statement. Not that I didn't enjoy the video; in fact, I'm watching Beerus' mentorship next. That's aside the point, though; this comes from a game, and if you want to deal in game evidence...
The reason Cell is taken as a Solar System buster for the Anime canon/GT is because of guidebooks, which are filed under secondary canon. As GT is secondary canon, the guidebooks are taken as a legitimate source of information for them. I'm not getting into whether or not Cell in canon could have destroyed the solar system, as it would end up derailing this entire thread with people arguing back and forth.
"Fat Buu was still apart of Super Buu who was the strongest form of Kid Buu. Either way, the reason why Majin Buu needed to absorb the energies of both SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta were because his powers had decreased. Not that difficult to understand man."
The reason the energies of SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta were needed was to break the seal and awaken Majin Buu, not power him up. As for why Babidi needed energy from the Z Fighters when Bibidi was apparently capable of just calling Buu out whenever he pleased is anyone's guess. We're not dealing in speculation, though.
"So he was capable of holding back two planet busters"
A Large Planet buster and a Solar System buster, yes. In just his base form, yes. Casually, yes.
It would have been nice of you specified which point in the video Cell said that, because I had to watch a 19-minute video for one statement. Not that I didn't enjoy the video; in fact, I'm watching Beerus' mentorship next. That's aside the point, though; this comes from a game, and if you want to deal in game evidence...
The reason Cell is taken as a Solar System buster for the Anime canon/GT is because of guidebooks, which are filed under secondary canon. As GT is secondary canon, the guidebooks are taken as a legitimate source of information for them. I'm not getting into whether or not Cell in canon could have destroyed the solar system, as it would end up derailing this entire thread with people arguing back and forth.
"Fat Buu was still apart of Super Buu who was the strongest form of Kid Buu. Either way, the reason why Majin Buu needed to absorb the energies of both SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta were because his powers had decreased. Not that difficult to understand man."
The reason the energies of SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta were needed was to break the seal and awaken Majin Buu, not power him up. As for why Babidi needed energy from the Z Fighters when Bibidi was apparently capable of just calling Buu out whenever he pleased is anyone's guess. We're not dealing in speculation, though.
"So he was capable of holding back two planet busters"
A Large Planet buster and a Solar System buster, yes. In just his base form, yes. Casually, yes.
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Nah... because I looked for sources that showed that these are just some of the plotholes of GT. GT just had too many things wrong with it to be quantifiable. Not just on a characterization and setting standpoint, but of the villains themselves. You didn't read them even if they are all relevant to how powerful the verse should be compared to what was done. Kid Goku should have been far weaker than his Adult Form. Again he peaked after the last Martial Arts tournament in DBZ, hell he showed he could barely use SSJ2 and sure as hell couldn't use SSJ3 effectively.
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"hell he showed he could barely use SSJ2"
if you watched GT you would know that SSJ2 was only shown when goku had ,to guard against an attack by General Rilldo. and briefly appears in the form while powering up to transform into Super Saiyan 3 twice while fighting Baby Vegeta
"GT just had too many things wrong with it to be quantifiable"
so does DBZ but nobody is pointing that out either....
"Kid Goku should have been far weaker than his Adult Form."
If thats true then how come he beat someone who goku stated had power greater then that of majin buu in his ssj form?
"Again he peaked after the last Martial Arts tournament in DBZ"
Please provide proof of that, because right know i'm not not beliveing you......
if you watched GT you would know that SSJ2 was only shown when goku had ,to guard against an attack by General Rilldo. and briefly appears in the form while powering up to transform into Super Saiyan 3 twice while fighting Baby Vegeta
"GT just had too many things wrong with it to be quantifiable"
so does DBZ but nobody is pointing that out either....
"Kid Goku should have been far weaker than his Adult Form."
If thats true then how come he beat someone who goku stated had power greater then that of majin buu in his ssj form?
"Again he peaked after the last Martial Arts tournament in DBZ"
Please provide proof of that, because right know i'm not not beliveing you......
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Except one game was made to be more cartoonish than the other one. DB Xenoverse deals in the actual canon of the series (even going as far as saying that GT was a different continuity altogether). The confirmation from Xenoverse can thus be taken with less of a grain of salt than Butoden.
Yes, break the seal. Understand what you just said. If Buu had such power already, why would he need to absorb more power from those who were inferior to his own power. Even in Majin Form he was considered superior to SSJ3 Goku until Goku got powerful enough to defeat Kid Buu. He let Vegeta fight with him though. Either way, they were absorbing his energy with the purpose of replenishing it because it was a seal on his power which had waned after being locked away for over a few milienia.
And as I said before. Goku also defeated Super Hellfire 17 in his Base form, and Baby stated that he needed two Galick Guns to destroy the earth. There's also the fact that again, SSJ4's feats are inconsistent, one of the best examples? All Rage Shenron needed to block a 10x Kamehameha from SSJ4 was to absorb a city's power grid.
Yes, break the seal. Understand what you just said. If Buu had such power already, why would he need to absorb more power from those who were inferior to his own power. Even in Majin Form he was considered superior to SSJ3 Goku until Goku got powerful enough to defeat Kid Buu. He let Vegeta fight with him though. Either way, they were absorbing his energy with the purpose of replenishing it because it was a seal on his power which had waned after being locked away for over a few milienia.
And as I said before. Goku also defeated Super Hellfire 17 in his Base form, and Baby stated that he needed two Galick Guns to destroy the earth. There's also the fact that again, SSJ4's feats are inconsistent, one of the best examples? All Rage Shenron needed to block a 10x Kamehameha from SSJ4 was to absorb a city's power grid.
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You're correct. And yet he is more tired than when he fought against someone akin to Majin Vegeta who was also in SSJ2, now I'm no math major. But those numbers don't add up considering that SSJ4 should be more draining than both the 2 and 3 transformations (considering it's widely accepted that it's a 10x modifier to SSJ3) even if it's because he'd mastered Golden Oozaru. Even SSJG had a time limit, and Super Saiya-jin Beyond God uses Super Saiya-jin as a base because it's the least draining transformation. So the transformation itself is a fallacy, and not just because Goku shouldn't have a tail.
It does, but those aren't as glaring as SSJ4 and Goku defeating these supposed Galaxy Buster's without going into said form. Hellfire 17 had absorbed a lot of his stamina so it wasn't like he was in tatters. Yet convienently...
Um... he could barely keep his SSJ2 and 3 transformations going. No matter if the transformations are draining, so long as he has the power to control said transformations, he should have been capable of doing so without complications. Now why is this glaring to Toei for their crappy creations in the GT verse. You tell me.
Trying to find this. Just don't remember what issue it was in.
It does, but those aren't as glaring as SSJ4 and Goku defeating these supposed Galaxy Buster's without going into said form. Hellfire 17 had absorbed a lot of his stamina so it wasn't like he was in tatters. Yet convienently...
Um... he could barely keep his SSJ2 and 3 transformations going. No matter if the transformations are draining, so long as he has the power to control said transformations, he should have been capable of doing so without complications. Now why is this glaring to Toei for their crappy creations in the GT verse. You tell me.
Trying to find this. Just don't remember what issue it was in.
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^Try all you want pal, the GT profiles aren't going change....
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"Except one game was made to be more cartoonish than the other one. DB Xenoverse deals in the actual canon of the series (even going as far as saying that GT was a different continuity altogether). The confirmation from Xenoverse can thus be taken with less of a grain of salt than Butoden."
Ultimate Butoden was based on Dragon Ball Kai, which made a big deal out of following the manga more closely than the old dubs. Also, why are we trying to assert which game is more canon? They're games. In Xenoverse, Beerus can be defeated by the Z Fighters, when in the movie, they never had a shred of hope against him.
"Yes, break the seal. Understand what you just said. If Buu had such power already, why would he need to absorb more power from those who were inferior to his own power. Even in Majin Form he was considered superior to SSJ3 Goku until Goku got powerful enough to defeat Kid Buu. He let Vegeta fight with him though. Either way, they were absorbing his energy with the purpose of replenishing it because it was a seal on his power which had waned after being locked away for over a few milienia."
Why is this relevant to what we are discussing? Ultimately, Buu got his power back; the same power that he used to ravage a galaxy in a seemingly short amount of time.
"And as I said before. Goku also defeated Super Hellfire 17 in his Base form, and Baby stated that he needed two Galick Guns to destroy the earth. There's also the fact that again, SSJ4's feats are inconsistent, one of the best examples? All Rage Shenron needed to block a 10x Kamehameha from SSJ4 was to absorb a city's power grid."
It's GT. It's (in)famous for that kind of thing. Though, it's not just limited to GT; it's all over Dragon Ball. Just look at the comments section of Goku's page.
Star Level durability? Lol, he got killed by planet busting attacks, even though he should logically have durabilty far greater than Planet Level as he's far stronger than Frieza who tanked a planet exploding almost literally in his face.
Starbusting punches? Lol, he doesn't have any feats on that level, even though his punches can visibly faze Beerus who can casually vaporize the entire solar system.
Ultimate Butoden was based on Dragon Ball Kai, which made a big deal out of following the manga more closely than the old dubs. Also, why are we trying to assert which game is more canon? They're games. In Xenoverse, Beerus can be defeated by the Z Fighters, when in the movie, they never had a shred of hope against him.
"Yes, break the seal. Understand what you just said. If Buu had such power already, why would he need to absorb more power from those who were inferior to his own power. Even in Majin Form he was considered superior to SSJ3 Goku until Goku got powerful enough to defeat Kid Buu. He let Vegeta fight with him though. Either way, they were absorbing his energy with the purpose of replenishing it because it was a seal on his power which had waned after being locked away for over a few milienia."
Why is this relevant to what we are discussing? Ultimately, Buu got his power back; the same power that he used to ravage a galaxy in a seemingly short amount of time.
"And as I said before. Goku also defeated Super Hellfire 17 in his Base form, and Baby stated that he needed two Galick Guns to destroy the earth. There's also the fact that again, SSJ4's feats are inconsistent, one of the best examples? All Rage Shenron needed to block a 10x Kamehameha from SSJ4 was to absorb a city's power grid."
It's GT. It's (in)famous for that kind of thing. Though, it's not just limited to GT; it's all over Dragon Ball. Just look at the comments section of Goku's page.
Star Level durability? Lol, he got killed by planet busting attacks, even though he should logically have durabilty far greater than Planet Level as he's far stronger than Frieza who tanked a planet exploding almost literally in his face.
Starbusting punches? Lol, he doesn't have any feats on that level, even though his punches can visibly faze Beerus who can casually vaporize the entire solar system.
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http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/mando-kobayashi-akira-toriyama-qa/ - Found it.
Why did you set the movie a few years after the battle with Majin Buu?
It's because I thought that period would be best in terms of timing, because at that time, everyone's reached nearly perfect strength; during the Uub era after that, everyone's gotten too old; and almost the whole cast of characters is there.
(Hey that's cool, if you guys want to be ignorant, who am I to stop you. It just means that your wiki should be taken with a grain of salt, as you wish to amp the characters to levels they'd never have.)
Why did you set the movie a few years after the battle with Majin Buu?
It's because I thought that period would be best in terms of timing, because at that time, everyone's reached nearly perfect strength; during the Uub era after that, everyone's gotten too old; and almost the whole cast of characters is there.
(Hey that's cool, if you guys want to be ignorant, who am I to stop you. It just means that your wiki should be taken with a grain of salt, as you wish to amp the characters to levels they'd never have.)
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Except Ultimate Butoden also has a lot of cartoonish and otherwise highly unlikely finishers for their characters just as much as they have for their 'serious' ones. It was made to be cartoonish, whereas Xenoverse's story mode was made to be more serious as shown with the Time Patroller and how he must correct time. If you can show me how serious Butoden is compared to Xenoverse, than sure I'll give you that argument.
He didn't necessarily get his power back, if he'd got his power back than wouldn't Goku have been Galaxy Busting right then and there. It was stated that he could have fought and defeated Kid Buu by himself if he wished in the manga. Why be afraid of Beerus who can completely annihilate a Solar System casually and in "the wink of an eye" if he was capable of the same damned feats only better.
Again, I just stated that I didn't trust in how you guys did the wiki. How you amped up the powers of characters like Vegeta (who hurt Beerus under Plot-Induced Stupidity). Next being capable of hurting anyone that's capable of taking those types of energy blasts is a feat in itself. But alas, the series focuses on both martial combat just as much as its energy beams to wear the fighters out. There should be no reason striking strength is inferior to ki blows, because ki can be used for close, mid and long-ranged combat.
Next, I don't believe Goku was effectively Solar System Busting until he was capable of making the state of Saiyan Beyond God, but that's just me. I think he was right on the edge, but Beerus still showed far superiority in combat, and the numbers don't add up.
He didn't necessarily get his power back, if he'd got his power back than wouldn't Goku have been Galaxy Busting right then and there. It was stated that he could have fought and defeated Kid Buu by himself if he wished in the manga. Why be afraid of Beerus who can completely annihilate a Solar System casually and in "the wink of an eye" if he was capable of the same damned feats only better.
Again, I just stated that I didn't trust in how you guys did the wiki. How you amped up the powers of characters like Vegeta (who hurt Beerus under Plot-Induced Stupidity). Next being capable of hurting anyone that's capable of taking those types of energy blasts is a feat in itself. But alas, the series focuses on both martial combat just as much as its energy beams to wear the fighters out. There should be no reason striking strength is inferior to ki blows, because ki can be used for close, mid and long-ranged combat.
Next, I don't believe Goku was effectively Solar System Busting until he was capable of making the state of Saiyan Beyond God, but that's just me. I think he was right on the edge, but Beerus still showed far superiority in combat, and the numbers don't add up.
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"Except Ultimate Butoden also has a lot of cartoonish and otherwise highly unlikely finishers for their characters just as much as they have for their 'serious' ones. It was made to be cartoonish, whereas Xenoverse's story mode was made to be more serious as shown with the Time Patroller and how he must correct time. If you can show me how serious Butoden is compared to Xenoverse, than sure I'll give you that argument."
Butoden follows Dragon Ball Z Kai, which as I stated, follows the original manga rather closely. The cartoonishness of it's finishers means nothing, as Dragon Ball itself is filled with unlikely, cartoonish fighting styles and characters (Cell's LEGO genetics, anyone?). Furthermore, Cell's strongest attack being stated in Xenoverse as only being capable of destroying a "small planet" is completely at odds with the power Frieza, a much weaker character, displayed, as he casually annihilated a planet much denser and thus likely much larger than Earth using a very small fraction of his true power. If anything, this says Xenoverse is the one that should be taken with a grain of salt.
"He didn't necessarily get his power back, if he'd got his power back than wouldn't Goku have been Galaxy Busting right then and there. It was stated that he could have fought and defeated Kid Buu by himself if he wished in the manga. Why be afraid of Beerus who can completely annihilate a Solar System casually and in "the wink of an eye" if he was capable of the same damned feats only better."
If I wasn't clear about this earlier, then I apologize. We rate canon Dragon Ball characters and anime/GT characters very differently on this wiki. Kid Buu ravaging a galaxy only appears in a flashback in the anime and does not appear in the original manga. Kid Buu and Beerus' rating on this wiki is based on the original manga as well as Battle of Gods and Revival of F. The page on Majin Buu explains why he is rated the way he is. Now, in the anime/GT continuity, he is rated much higher thanks to that feat which was shown in the anime. He's not an outright Galaxy buster, but is comfortably Multi-Solar System level thanks to that feat as well as scaling from Cell. As for Goku not Galaxy/Multi-Solar System busting, well, why did Majin Vegeta's Final Explosion only create a large crater despite nearly killing Majin Buu who is much stronger than Frieza who can casually Planet bust?
Butoden follows Dragon Ball Z Kai, which as I stated, follows the original manga rather closely. The cartoonishness of it's finishers means nothing, as Dragon Ball itself is filled with unlikely, cartoonish fighting styles and characters (Cell's LEGO genetics, anyone?). Furthermore, Cell's strongest attack being stated in Xenoverse as only being capable of destroying a "small planet" is completely at odds with the power Frieza, a much weaker character, displayed, as he casually annihilated a planet much denser and thus likely much larger than Earth using a very small fraction of his true power. If anything, this says Xenoverse is the one that should be taken with a grain of salt.
"He didn't necessarily get his power back, if he'd got his power back than wouldn't Goku have been Galaxy Busting right then and there. It was stated that he could have fought and defeated Kid Buu by himself if he wished in the manga. Why be afraid of Beerus who can completely annihilate a Solar System casually and in "the wink of an eye" if he was capable of the same damned feats only better."
If I wasn't clear about this earlier, then I apologize. We rate canon Dragon Ball characters and anime/GT characters very differently on this wiki. Kid Buu ravaging a galaxy only appears in a flashback in the anime and does not appear in the original manga. Kid Buu and Beerus' rating on this wiki is based on the original manga as well as Battle of Gods and Revival of F. The page on Majin Buu explains why he is rated the way he is. Now, in the anime/GT continuity, he is rated much higher thanks to that feat which was shown in the anime. He's not an outright Galaxy buster, but is comfortably Multi-Solar System level thanks to that feat as well as scaling from Cell. As for Goku not Galaxy/Multi-Solar System busting, well, why did Majin Vegeta's Final Explosion only create a large crater despite nearly killing Majin Buu who is much stronger than Frieza who can casually Planet bust?
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I'm just going to chalk that up as having different opinions, neitehr of us can prove the weight of the games themselves as they are supposedly non-canon (Butoden is more non-caon compared to Xenoverse which follows the story and tries to change it back to correctness).Unclechairman said:
Again, Cell was never shown to have such feats. He was easily a Large Planet Buster, maybe he could blow away part of a star and cause it to have a chain reaction of sorts, but I highly doubt he was capable of destroying a Solar System. He also says the same thing in the manga - http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/9491/201356-cell_solar_super.jpg - but there are no feats that support this, neither are there any possibly quantites of power to take from and again as I said much earlier in this discussion, Cell is in fact a ham. He considered himself superior to everything. I beleive he could destroy the Solar System in a chain reacdtion of destroying various planets and solar bodies, but it's overtime not with one technique. Considering he died to a weakened Gohan, that whacks your theory on the head even more as he was at Full-Power and under the effects of Zenkai.
That just means that Majin Buu could destroy stars though. It takes more power to destroy stars than it takes for people to destroy worlds, this is common knowledge.
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Did you forget about those guidebooks. They're at least canon to the anime continuity, and they also state Cell as being capable of destroying the solar system at full power.
"Cell is in fact a ham. He considered himself superior to everything."
This proves Cell isn't a solar system buster how? His claim also sticks out like a sore thumb among various other claims of characters being able to destroy the universe (King Kai on Frieza, various characters on Buu, etc.), implying that it was put there for a reason other than "lol hyperbole". Also, didn't I say that arguing about this would destroy the thread?
"Considering he died to a weakened Gohan, that whacks your theory on the head even more as he was at Full-Power and under the effects of Zenkai."
This doesn't prove Cell isn't a solar system buster. All it proves is that Gohan is at least on the level of Cell or stronger, so likely Solar System level+.
"That just means that Majin Buu could destroy stars though."
Majin Buu is capable of more than just busting stars in the anime, though. He destroyed a galaxy in a seemingly small amount of time in a flashback. How hard is this for you to understand?
"Cell is in fact a ham. He considered himself superior to everything."
This proves Cell isn't a solar system buster how? His claim also sticks out like a sore thumb among various other claims of characters being able to destroy the universe (King Kai on Frieza, various characters on Buu, etc.), implying that it was put there for a reason other than "lol hyperbole". Also, didn't I say that arguing about this would destroy the thread?
"Considering he died to a weakened Gohan, that whacks your theory on the head even more as he was at Full-Power and under the effects of Zenkai."
This doesn't prove Cell isn't a solar system buster. All it proves is that Gohan is at least on the level of Cell or stronger, so likely Solar System level+.
"That just means that Majin Buu could destroy stars though."
Majin Buu is capable of more than just busting stars in the anime, though. He destroyed a galaxy in a seemingly small amount of time in a flashback. How hard is this for you to understand?
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Because they were stronger than everything in said universe before Beerus and Whis showed up. And they literally did not care about Freeza's power. Freeza had power dwarfing anyone else in the universe at that time. Cell was made up of the DNA of various very powerful warriors in the KNOWN galaxy, and Buu was locked away for a couple of Millienia.
Your burden of proof is to prove that he is a Solar System Buster with a show of his feats or mathematics of how much power he has enough to do said feats. Once again, if Goku was afraid of a TRUE Solar System Buster (A ******' god of destruction and his master who is superior to him) no less. Why the hell wouldn't he see Cell in the same light, and why was Buu not as dangerous. These are the things you have to prove, because you're saying that through his words. This guy truly is a Solar System Buster, when Whis who is one of the most powerful characters of all time in DBU has stated Beerus' power and has no reason to lie. You're forgetting how arrogant Cell is, Beerus in his verse is God Tier, he CAN be arrogant comapred to someone as weak as Cell whose only claim to fame is his words and no actions showing this to be true. So please, prove it.
Your burden of proof is to prove that he is a Solar System Buster with a show of his feats or mathematics of how much power he has enough to do said feats. Once again, if Goku was afraid of a TRUE Solar System Buster (A ******' god of destruction and his master who is superior to him) no less. Why the hell wouldn't he see Cell in the same light, and why was Buu not as dangerous. These are the things you have to prove, because you're saying that through his words. This guy truly is a Solar System Buster, when Whis who is one of the most powerful characters of all time in DBU has stated Beerus' power and has no reason to lie. You're forgetting how arrogant Cell is, Beerus in his verse is God Tier, he CAN be arrogant comapred to someone as weak as Cell whose only claim to fame is his words and no actions showing this to be true. So please, prove it.
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Still forgetting that the power of Beerus and Whis is irrelevant based on how we rate anime/GT characters? This wiki doesn't take canon Cell as a Solar System buster; just look at his page. The anime and GT characters are rated differently. They include filler feats and guidebook information. Guidebook information says Cell is a Solar System buster; thus, based on how we rate these characters, Cell in the anime/GT continuity is a Solar System buster, regardless of your attempt to frame how this is proven. Feats and mathematics not needed.
You are attempting to judge a characters' power through the Z Fighters' reactions to them. The Z Fighters would be alarmed and have been alarmed if someone so much as threatened to only destroy the Earth. They are, after all, Earth's sworn defenders. This isn't even counting other factors that might affect the Z Fighters' reactions such as whether or not the Dragon Balls will be able to undo the damage (considering since Super Buu annihilated the human race once, they can't be brought back again if Earth is destroyed again since Shenron cannot revive someone more than once and Porunga cannot revive people en masse).
You are attempting to judge a characters' power through the Z Fighters' reactions to them. The Z Fighters would be alarmed and have been alarmed if someone so much as threatened to only destroy the Earth. They are, after all, Earth's sworn defenders. This isn't even counting other factors that might affect the Z Fighters' reactions such as whether or not the Dragon Balls will be able to undo the damage (considering since Super Buu annihilated the human race once, they can't be brought back again if Earth is destroyed again since Shenron cannot revive someone more than once and Porunga cannot revive people en masse).
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So what you're saying... is that a series that has feats that are non-canon in the mangaverse, are feats that can be used to increase the power of something that takes from that canon because a guidebook, not from the official word of god, can be used to decipher said clues, even if they aren't fact? *Shakes my head* So if we go by your logic, Goku is a Universe Buster by the end of DBGT, let's not just stop at Galaxy why don't we.
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End of GT Goku is Multi-Galaxy. Shin Budokai Goku is Multi-Universe. Manga Goku, as he stands, is At LEAST, Solar System+, likely to increase on Dragon Ball Super as we are given more feats.Davy0 said:
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