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Godzilla Upgrade

Apex_Predator_GX

Apex_Predator_GX

7,095
3,855
According the movie characters SpaceGodzilla absorbed THE energy of a dying star and was exposed to the tremendous energy of many supernovas.

Everything is ok to this point, but there is more, as this was confirmed in different official databases:

Godzilla.com

Another bio

Translation

"Combat creature Space Godzilla

It is a creature that evolved abnormally when the cells of Godzilla, which were scattered into space during a battle with a rival monster before fighting the creature SpaceGodzilla, fused with crsytalline organisms in a black hole and absorbed the energy of stellar explosions. He has high intelligence, and has come to Earth to kill its original Godzilla. Using the innumerable crystals formed on the ground, create a battle field that takes in infinite energy from space, and freely manipulate graviton and electromagnetic waves to attack Godzilla. Space Godzilla has become a popular monster, but the original monster that appeared in the game is the base design.”

Another one

It was also said to have destroying "everything in his path" which is a bit vague but is something

This means what was stated in the movie was confirmed as true.

SpaceGodzilla could be tier 4 instead of 5.

This upgrade will affect the following characters:

Godzilla Heisei (vs SG and ahead)

MOGUERA

SpaceGodzilla

Godzilla Jr

Destroyah

Thoughts?

-----------

VOTE COUNT

Supporters: @ZeedKrakenZilla, @SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Hunterzillas, @GojiBoyForever

Opponents: @WeeklyBattles, @Antvasima

Neutral: @Ionliosite
 
Last edited:
Eh, I'm unsure how we treat absorbing the energy of a star on site, especially since a star only generates High 6-A energy according to calcs, so I'm going to remain neutral until I get better informed on the standards.
 
Ionliosite said:
Eh, I'm unsure how we treat absorbing the energy of a star on site, especially since a star only generates High 6-A energy according to calcs, so I'm going to remain neutral until I get better informed on the standards.
Click to expand...
SpaceG absorbed the energy of stellar explosions, that is at least tier 4.
 
Novas and Supernovas are two different things, but I know on previous thread there was some statements about them being literal supernovas as opposed to just novas. So I'm fine with a Tier 4 upgrade by prefer more staff input.
 
Weekly that's not even a good retort.

"But it's only a theory-"
Confirmed though in the biography which references the kaiju in their Toho forms.
Also a theory entails some form of knowledge. You can't just make shit up and call it a theory.

The argument doesn't need to change when it's the more likely explanation.
 
SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King said:
Weekly that's not even a good retort.

"But it's only a theory-"
Confirmed though in the biography which references the kaiju in their Toho forms.
Also a theory entails some form of knowledge. You can't just make shit up and call it a theory.

The argument doesn't need to change when it's the more likely explanation.
Click to expand...
the biography which is from a video game, a completely different media, made decades after the movie was released. We do not accept that as a legit form of scaling.

Like i said, this has been brought up at least three times in the past and the argument has not changed
 
WeeklyBattles said:
the biography which is from a video game, a completely different media, made decades after the movie was released. We do not accept that as a legit form of scaling.

Like i said, this has been brought up at least three times in the past and the argument has not changed
Click to expand...
The year it was made doesn't matter, otherwise every franchise with databooks made years after their respective movies/animes will not be taken into account. lol
 
Godzilla.com is not from the PS4 video game, it's from an a official website. And even when the arguments are the same, the prior attempts to upgrade him lacks more information and statements.
 
Antvasima said:
Weekly seems to make sense. My apologies.
Click to expand...
His only arguments are that the guides can't be used cause were made years after the movie? lol

And that this was rejected many times?

1. That is a bad argument, it doesn't make sense to scrap guides due the publish date.

2. That is false.... no one has bring the amount of information I has shared here.
 
Its not a guide though, its a character bio from a video game that has nothing to do with the film

And yes, it was rejected many times, i know because i was part of all of them
 
WeeklyBattles said:
the biography which is from a video game, a completely different media, made decades after the movie was released. We do not accept that as a legit form of scaling.

Like i said, this has been brought up at least three times in the past and the argument has not changed
Click to expand...
Why not? If your ENTIRE counterargument is 'well they didn't confirm it in the movie", and I give you a more up to date source that says it in pretty certain terms, then what's the problem?

The argument doesn't need to change, it's the much more valid interpretation. Denying something for being a theory/hypothetical is complete nonsense when those very things require evidence. You act as though a theory can be made by just making shit up, when it's not that simple.
Quite literally every definition of the word proves that wrong. The only possible way it works in your favor is if you prove it's conjecture.
 
SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King said:
Why not? If your ENTIRE counterargument is 'well they didn't confirm it in the movie", and I give you a more up to date source that says it in pretty certain terms, then what's the problem?

The argument doesn't need to change, it's the much more valid interpretation. Denying something for being a theory/hypothetical is complete nonsense when those very things require evidence. You act as though a theory can be made by just making shit up, when it's not that simple.
Quite literally every definition of the word proves that wrong. The only possible way it works in your favor is if you prove it's conjecture.
Click to expand...
No, my entire counterargument is 'The scans you are trying to use are from a video game created decades after the film, that has nothing to do with the film itself, and that gives a contradictory backstory to SpaceGodzilla'.

It is very clearly stated in our rules and guidelines that we do not allow for cross-media scaling, let alone using something as contradictory as this
 
Godzilla.com is not from a videogame, where did you get that from? Godzilla.com is a official website with official bio of the monsters. Seriously, how this comes from a videogame? And we don't have a PS4 SpaceGodzilla profile anymore.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
No, my entire counterargument is 'The scans you are trying to use are from a video game created decades after the film, that has nothing to do with the film itself, and that gives a contradictory backstory to SpaceGodzilla'.

It is very clearly stated in our rules and guidelines that we do not allow for cross-media scaling, let alone using something as contradictory as this
Click to expand...
That's one scan, even presuming it's not accurate for some bizarre reason, there are multiple others here not using the games as their reference. Godzilla.com is one of them, guide 2 is from movie studio tour which is again not a game. Your argument only applies to the PS4 entry, which is one out of now 5 sources post film declaring a very similar origin story. Not to mention there is no contradiction given here. The only arguable contradiction is Godzilla's meltdown, but even this has flaws. For one, the accepted calc does not account for the whole planet, which is stated to be what Godzilla would destroy, and two, Godzilla's meltdown was only calculated there at the time of the statement, days passed before he died and two entire weeks were how long he had. So this large planet-small star cap isn't really anything to go off.

In what fashion is this contradictory? No other origin is presented in the film, the manga, the games or the comics (both of these last two just state the film's origin verbatim in black and white). What OTHER origin is there?

Also it does not. There is no separate profile for the game version, deleted because it was declared redundant since it said the same things as the film, and the guide was declared unusable since it was more applicable to the film. Which leads us in a circle. Explain to me how the game guide applies to the game when upgrading the films but then applies to the film when trying to upgrade the game.
 
Could an argument perhaps be made for a "potentially 4-B", or "likely higher" tier? While they do say they don't know for certain what SpaceGodzilla's origins are, they do give a pretty descriptive and thorough hypothesis on the matter, and I'm pretty sure the audience is supposed to take it at face value, otherwise we have a monster that came from nowhere.

Supporting material does also seem to indicate that the hypothetical origin is likely.
 
Hunterzillas said:
Could an argument perhaps be made for a "potentially 4-B", or "likely higher" tier? While they do say they don't know for certain what SpaceGodzilla's origins are, they do give a pretty descriptive and thorough hypothesis on the matter, and I'm pretty sure the audience is supposed to take it at face value, otherwise we have a monster that came from nowhere.

Supporting material does also seem to indicate that the hypothetical origin is likely.
Click to expand...
No, the only thing that is allowed to be used for scaling movie spacegodzilla is movie feats, nothing else.

Its directly stated that the hypothesis is purely unconfirmed guesswork as they dont even know how Godzilla's cells got into spac in th first place let alon how they formed into spacegodzilla
 
ZeedKrakenZilla said:
Godzilla.com is not from a videogame, where did you get that from? Godzilla.com is a official website with official bio of the monsters. Seriously, how this comes from a videogame? And we don't have a PS4 SpaceGodzilla profile anymore.
Click to expand...
The scan on Godzilla.com is from a video game. The site itself is not a video game, the scan present on the site is.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
The scan on Godzilla.com is from a video game. The site itself is not a video game, the scan present on the site is.
Click to expand...
I verbatim send the link from the site, IT'S NOT FROM A VIDEOGAME. Do you even have evidences for this unless of just saying that comes from a videogame because yes?
 
WeeklyBattles said:
No, the only thing that is allowed to be used for scaling movie spacegodzilla is movie feats, nothing else.

Its directly stated that the hypothesis is purely unconfirmed guesswork as they dont even know how Godzilla's cells got into spac in th first place let alon how they formed into spacegodzilla
Click to expand...
That's stupid, anything extrapolating the films should be reliable as well. These would include Toho's books, guides, director commentaries and released scripts.

That's not what a theory is Weekly. They gave two possibilities to how Godzilla cells ended up in space, what do you mean? They didn't SEE him form, but based on PRIOR EVENTS, they came to a conclusion. Given the rapid formation from single cells to a full creature, and one with that much power, it's pretty likely that a lot of energy was required to form said creature and grant it such strength. Given the rather empty void of outer space, there's not too many places SpaceGodzilla can get that much power. That leads to the stellar explosions being his fuel source. There is no contradiction here. You'd have to prove this DIDN'T HAPPEN to call it one.

As for the Tier 6 energy, this implies he was only there for one second and only did it once, something that could be argued as a bare minimum, but more sources dictate would be higher. SpaceGodzilla attacked 3 years after Mothra left at bare minimum, plenty of time to actually fill up the tank.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
No, the only thing that is allowed to be used for scaling movie SpaceGodzilla is movie feats, nothing else.

Its directly stated that the hypothesis is purely unconfirmed guesswork as they don't even know how Godzilla's cells got into space in the first place let alone how they formed into SpaceGodzilla
Click to expand...
Well that raises the question of how did Godzilla's cells get into space? And with that, there are only two logical answers, which they give in the movie. That either being through the death of Biollante, OR through Mothra's ascension to destroy the meteor.

While we can't confirm either one, we should at least be able to confirm that it had to be one of those two origins. And if that is correct (which it would have to be, because those are the only instances of Godzilla's cells being in outer space), then I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the rest is likely correct as well (in the real world, saying that a monster came from a fusion of star radiation and black hole energy WOULD be a big logical leap, but in terms of the movies internal logic, I would say it is not that far fetched.)
 
I also agree with Weekly. This wiki always fails to consider the concept of secondary canon.
 
SuperGodzilla_Kaiju_King said:
That's stupid, anything extrapolating the films should be reliable as well. These would include Toho's books, guides, director commentaries and released scripts.

That's not what a theory is Weekly. They gave two possibilities to how Godzilla cells ended up in space, what do you mean? They didn't SEE him form, but based on PRIOR EVENTS, they came to a conclusion. Given the rapid formation from single cells to a full creature, and one with that much power, it's pretty likely that a lot of energy was required to form said creature and grant it such strength. Given the rather empty void of outer space, there's not too many places SpaceGodzilla can get that much power. That leads to the stellar explosions being his fuel source. There is no contradiction here. You'd have to prove this DIDN'T HAPPEN to call it one.

As for the Tier 6 energy, this implies he was only there for one second and only did it once, something that could be argued as a bare minimum, but more sources dictate would be higher. SpaceGodzilla attacked 3 years after Mothra left at bare minimum, plenty of time to actually fill up the tank.
Click to expand...
Okay but there is a difference between a guidebook that gives information on a film and a video game that has nothing to do with the film.

the·o·ry
noun
a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

What knowledge of prior events? They did not see Godzilla's cells gt sucked into a black hole or get hit with solar energy. They didnt see Godzilla's cells merge with a pre-existing crystalline lifeform. The only thing they know for certain is that godzilla's cells somehow got into space, everything else is, by their own admission in the film, guesswork at best. And no, I do not need to prove a negative, you need to prove that it happened with evidence that is more solid than 'w think this is what happened but we arent entirely sure'.

You do know that the energy of a dying star dissipates in seconds right?
 
Hunterzillas said:
Well that raises the question of how did Godzilla's cells get into space? And with that, there are only two logical answers, which they give in the movie. That either being through the death of Biollante, OR through Mothra's ascension to destroy the meteor.

While we can't confirm either one, we should at least be able to confirm that it had to be one of those two origins. And if that is correct (which it would have to be, because those are the only instances of Godzilla's cells being in outer space), then I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say the rest is likely correct as well (in the real world, saying that a monster came from a fusion of star radiation and black hole energy WOULD be a big logical leap, but in terms of the movies internal logic, I would say it is not that far fetched.)
Click to expand...
Thats not...no. The only thing we know for certain is that one of those two beings brought Goji's cells into earth because that is what was directly observed, the only thing in the theory that was ever directly observed. Everything else is pure guesswork, they never observed any of the other parts of their theory directly, hence why they say that theyre not certain if its correct.
 
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