God-Tier Upgrade (Genshin Impact)

[IStar0thh]

Comparable to Rhinedottir*

“Comparable to Rhino” — Yes, who at that point only has planetary statements, not 4-C.

Theres no doubt that the Sinners can be scaled to the Four Shades as they're the god-tier in the verse right now and we already acknowledge that since long ago.

First, you scale the Shaders to Phanes (at least 4-C). Then you scale the Sinners to the Shaders because of Rhino — who, at that moment, had only planetary-level feats at best. Then, after Rhino fuses with The Life (without any clear context or explanation), you suddenly upscale all Sinners to Shaders, who are now star level. That’s a miraculous leap in logic.

The Five Sinners of Khaenri’ah are Transcendent Beings, each possessing the power to destroy the entire world

That's planetary

He should be comparable to Rhinedottir as a fellow Sinner.

Still planetary, since Rhino had no star-level feats at that time — and her fusion with the Shader was only because she found its “heart.”

He is many times stronger than an entire world.

Yeah, but… how many times? A star is billions of times greater in scale than a planet. You can be many times stronger than a planet without even remotely approaching star levels.

First, Most of the Sinners perfomed stronger feats than the Seven Sovereigns, the same Seven Sovereigns who fought the Heavenly Principles and the Four Shades and manage to make the heavenly principles and four shades struggle for 40 years.

So Heavenly Principles >= Dragon King Nibelung > Four Shades > Sinners >= Sovereigns.

I’ll be waiting for you to actually mention the feats that put them at 4C, because right now, your entire argument hinges on a Rhino feat that has nothing to do with attack potency, durability, or destructive capacity whatsoever.

 

[MSahla]

“Comparable to Rhino” — Yes, who at that point only has planetary statements, not 4-C.

First, you scale the Shaders to Phanes (at least 4-C). Then you scale the Sinners to the Shaders because of Rhino — who, at that moment, had only planetary-level feats at best. Then, after Rhino fuses with The Life (without any clear context or explanation), you suddenly upscale all Sinners to Shaders, who are now star level. That’s a miraculous leap in logic.

That's planetary

Still planetary, since Rhino had no star-level feats at that time — and her fusion with the Shader was only because she found its “heart.”

Yeah, but… how many times? A star is billions of times greater in scale than a planet. You can be many times stronger than a planet without even remotely approaching star levels.

I’ll be waiting for you to actually mention the feats that put them at 4C, because right now, your entire argument hinges on a Rhino feat that has nothing to do with attack potency, durability, or destructive capacity whatsoever.

I dont know what is wrong with you, Rhinedottir is one of the four shades now and she should scaled to the other shades like Ronova, Asmoday and Istaroth.

Them all defeated Seven Sovereigns and Dragon King Nibelung alongside the Heavenly Principles

 

[IStar0thh]

I dont know what is wrong with you, Rhinedottir is one of the four shades now and she should scaled to the other shades like Ronova, Asmoday and Istaroth.

Them all defeated Seven Sovereigns and Dragon King Nibelung alongside the Heavenly Principles

Bro, it’s simple — Rhinedottir has two phases: pre-shader and post-shader.
You’re trying to put the Shaders at 4-C, but that doesn’t include Pre-Naberius Rhinedottir, which is the version the Sinners would scale to.
You’re basically saying the Sinners scale to Post-Naberius Rhinedottir without providing any actual evidence for that connection.

 

[MSahla]

Bro, it’s simple — Rhinedottir has two phases: pre-shader and post-shader.
You’re trying to put the Shaders at 4-C, but that doesn’t include Pre-Naberius Rhinedottir, which is the version the Sinners would scale to.
You’re basically saying the Sinners scale to Post-Naberius Rhinedottir without providing any actual evidence for that connection.

sigh

Put it simply, Sinners >= Sovereigns, the same sovereigns who fought the four shades and heavenly principles who got their 4-C from Nibelung, the Sovereigns got their 4-C because of they fighting those four shades and heavenly principles.
Understand?

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Venti's range should just be interdimensional range seeing it only affected a portion and not an entirety

 

[MSahla]

Venti's range should just be interdimensional range seeing it only affected a portion and not an entirety

But he's still doing it tho, blew it off the Timeline, thats enough to be Low Multiversal.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

But he's still doing it tho, blew it off the Timeline, thats good enough to be Low Multiversal.

That's interdimensional range if

1.) it only affected a portion of the universe
2.) It only affected a specific moment of time

 

[MSahla]

That's interdimensional range if

1.) it only affected a portion of the universe
2.) It only affected a specific moment of time

Is that even how it works?
Because bros just basically throwing something to another universe.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Is that even how it works?
Because bros just basically throwing something to another universe.

yes.
It is still superior to universal+ range because of being able to reach outside regular Space-time.

I guess you should explain how far this interdimensional BFR can go, like for example (BFR and entire Region outside the timeline)

Low multiversal is specifically being able to reach any place within 2 or more universe is a multiverse.
Clearly, this isn't what Venti did, seeing that he only BFR a portion of a location.

 

[LoudestProcedure]

Disagree with venti his is mostly hax so 4-C shouldn't work

 

[InfinityTurtleHD]

Yeah I also disagree with 4-C for Venti and Mavuika. I see no reason why they scale.

Though is there an original translation scan for Staff of the Scarlet Sands?

 

[MSahla]

Though is there an original translation scan for Staff of the Scarlet Sands?

I don't have that weapon on my account so i can't look at it.
I mean it should be the same thing because we only use this sentence right here

"First, the sun and the moons were created, thus day and night came to be"

and nothing else. It's a blantant sentence anyway.

This is the moment where King Deshret remembers the story told to him by Nabu Malikata about the ancient history of Teyvat. So the OG language kinda unnecessary.

 

[MSahla]

I don't have that weapon on my account so i can't look at it.
I mean it should be the same thing because we only use this sentence right here

"First, the sun and the moons were created, thus day and night came to be"

and nothing else. It's a blantant sentence anyway.

This is the moment where King Deshret remembers the story told to him by Nabu Malikata about the ancient history of Teyvat. So the OG language kinda unnecessary.

I just look at the CN one and yeah.. Pretty much all the same, blantant statement like that don't need any further clarification.

 

[Furina003]

I was asked to comment. So with creation feats, you have to list a reason why they'd scale to AP

You have to show a UES (which afaik GE already has) and then show that the Dragon can use attacks requiring similar or greater energy to the creation to scale to that rating.

The rest of the proposed powers I don't have an issue with.

Firstly, kuuvhaki energy is one of the primordial energies, similar to primordial ocean and phlogiston, which is the source of elemental energy in Genshin. Elemental energy is UES in Genshin because almost all characters in the world use this energy to fight.
Secondly, when heavenly principles created a new world order, the sun and moon created by Nibelung were destroyed, so there is no need to use UES for scaling here because the sun was not only created but also destroyed.

 

[Furina003]

By the way, I agree with crt, especially since Venti should have gotten the L2C range because he threw Marejivari out of the timeline. This isn't a hack because he threw it using wind, not a portal or teleportation. It's even shown here.

 

[MSahla]

Secondly, when heavenly principles created a new world order, the sun and moon created by Nibelung were destroyed, so there is no need to use UES for scaling here because the sun was not only created but also destroyed.

No, the moons were not destroyed when the Heavenly Principles usurped everything, in fact the three moon goddesses once coexisted harmoniously with the principles of Celestia because the Heavenly Principles tolerate them.

Spoiler: Lauma character story 2

If one was born early enough, lived long enough, and one's forbidden memories weren't erased by more transcendent beings, they would surely remember (and such beings do exist in Teyvat) that before the war of funerary flame, the Three Moon Goddesses, who served Nibelung, once coexisted harmoniously with the principles of Celestia for a time.

Of course, if one were to inquire about this matter with Celestia, the high heavens might respond with ambiguity. The Three Moons were once satellites that guarded Teyvat, and the Moon Sisters were executors of the planet's will. Celestia's principles were once quite "tolerant," not necessarily requiring the exclusion of those divergent from itself.

For the Three Moon Goddesses, their sole duty was to maintain the planet's existence and operation. And so the moonlight continued to illuminate the lands of Teyvat. Alas, even they, who kept to themselves, could not remain uninvolved. Inevitably, conflicts between those in power would affect some of those who were subordinate to them.

The two out of three moons of Teyvat were destroyed because of the war caused by Dragon King Nibelung, fighting against the Heavenly Principles in the Funerary Year which is the Great War of Vengeance.

 

[Furina003]

No, the moons were not destroyed when the Heavenly Principles usurped everything, in fact the three moon goddesses once coexisted harmoniously with the principles of Celestia because the Heavenly Principles tolerate them.

Spoiler: Lauma character story 2

If one was born early enough, lived long enough, and one's forbidden memories weren't erased by more transcendent beings, they would surely remember (and such beings do exist in Teyvat) that before the war of funerary flame, the Three Moon Goddesses, who served Nibelung, once coexisted harmoniously with the principles of Celestia for a time.

Of course, if one were to inquire about this matter with Celestia, the high heavens might respond with ambiguity. The Three Moons were once satellites that guarded Teyvat, and the Moon Sisters were executors of the planet's will. Celestia's principles were once quite "tolerant," not necessarily requiring the exclusion of those divergent from itself.

For the Three Moon Goddesses, their sole duty was to maintain the planet's existence and operation. And so the moonlight continued to illuminate the lands of Teyvat. Alas, even they, who kept to themselves, could not remain uninvolved. Inevitably, conflicts between those in power would affect some of those who were subordinate to them.

The two out of three moons of Teyvat were destroyed because of the war caused by Dragon King Nibelung, fighting against the Heavenly Principles in the Funerary Year which is the Great War of Vengeance.

The cycle of seven must be removed, because the secret narrative will be blocked.

Fear and grief must be torn down, and so the barrier between life and death must be removed.

Remove the sun, the moons, and weight, for there should be no barriers between time and space.

Remove the original principles of rules, verdicts, and grace, so that she will no longer be afraid of the punishment that is laid on her kin.

Remove birds, beats, fish, dragons, humans, and seven monk-kings, so that none shall steal wisdom.

This is clear, so we don't need to UES for scaling.

 

[MSahla]

This is clear, so we don't need to UES for scaling.

that before the war of funerary flame, the Three Moon Goddesses, who served Nibelung, once coexisted harmoniously with the principles of Celestia for a time

This is also clear.
That sentence probably referred to the Heavenly Principles created the False Sky, so in Teyvat now, the Sun and the Moon are fake (which is they are)

 

[Furina003]

This is also clear.
That sentence probably referred to the Heavenly Principles created the False Sky, so in Teyvat now, the Sun and the Moons are fake.

It's clear that the sun was destroyed there, so there's no need for ues. If you don't accept that, you have to prove that Nibelung used ues at that time. Otherwise, I don't agree with the crt that was made.

 

[MSahla]

It's clear that the sun was destroyed there, so there's no need for ues. If you don't accept that, you have to prove that Nibelung used ues at that time. Otherwise, I don't agree with the crt that was made.

Im just arguing about the Moons not the Sun or the UES.

 

[Furina003]

Im just arguing about the Moons not the Sun or the UES.

ok, no problem

 

[Voidnether]

4-C only scales to whoever created that Sun in the first place, we literally have this stuff too with the Adeptus and all that and they're just listed on the AP because it is a creation feat. I don't get why it would scale to UES, and then everyone in advance when we know even the 4-A stuff previously from Imaginarium Theater is limited to those who created it and it's only listed on their AP

 

[Hjdjdhf]

Nibelung Should be stronger than seven dragon kings，I don't understand why the tier are the same

 

[MSahla]

4-C only scales to whoever created that Sun in the first place, we literally have this stuff too with the Adeptus and all that and they're just listed on the AP because it is a creation feat. I don't get why it would scale to UES

..
GE already has, and Nibelung shows (not visually) he unleash with even stronger attacks than him creating the sun, which is severely wounded the Heavenly Principles.

And Nibelung IS NOT like those witches creating a realms, he literally created the celestial bodies.

 

[MSahla]

Nibelung Should be stronger than seven dragon kings，I don't understand why the tier are the same

Same Tier ≠ Equal
Like Character A beat character B who performed Planet level feat, therefore Character A is Planet level too.

 

[Voidnether]

..
GE already has, and Nibelung shows (not visually) he unleash with even stronger attacks than him creating the sun, which is severely wounded the Heavenly Principles.

And Nibelung IS NOT like those witches creating a realms, he literally created the celestial bodies.

GI already has UES ≠ Not everything scales there, you know how bad it was when someone like Cyno or Alhaitham scales to 4-A when it's literally exclusive for Alice and so on? That's enough reason already tbh

How do you know Nibelung unleashed stronger attacks when Nibelung fought against the Heavenly Principles? You don't, it's not like they casually throw galaxies at each other when they fought narratively stated. And it's more of like Hax if anything because of Forbidden Knowledge. You do know Nibelung creating the Sun could be replicated by an adeptus, yes?

 

[MSahla]

GI already has UES ≠ Not everything scales there, you know how bad it was when someone like Cyno or Alhaitham scales to 4-A when it's literally exclusive for Alice and so on? That's enough reason already tbh

That's irrelevant from now, those characters are at most 6-B.

How do you know Nibelung unleashed stronger attacks when Nibelung fought against the Heavenly Principles? You don't, it's not like they casually throw galaxies at each other when they fought narratively stated. And it's more of like Hax if anything because of Forbidden Knowledge.

Not really, Forbidden Knowledge or more like Abyssal Power in common are not just a hax, it's also a UES because it's everywhere in the Universe and people of other planets also use the abyssal power not just here in Teyvat.

Surtalogi literally shown to destroyed multiple celestial bodies with his strength alone.
Abyssal Power can be an amplification to its users strength and making them even stronger, the Five Sinners and Kongamato is the great examples for this.

You do know Nibelung creating the Sun could be replicated by an adeptus, yes?

Oh my, Even Zhongli's mountain level feat is greater than that realm created by Adeptus, those suns are not even real.

And mind you, Astral Assamblages created by Xiuhcoatl >> all Realms that you so-called with Sun created by Adeptus.

 

[Mommyleona]

4-C only scales to whoever created that Sun in the first place, we literally have this stuff too with the Adeptus and all that and they're just listed on the AP because it is a creation feat. I don't get why it would scale to UES, and then everyone in advance when we know even the 4-A stuff previously from Imaginarium Theater is limited to those who created it and it's only listed on their AP

whats the point of ues if apparently creation feats cant be used for ap?

 

[MSahla]

whats the point of ues if apparently creation feats cant be used for ap?

That's kinda funny because a bunch of verse used their creation feats as one of their ratings.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Firstly, kuuvhaki energy is one of the primordial energies, similar to primordial ocean and phlogiston, which is the source of elemental energy in Genshin. Elemental energy is UES in Genshin because almost all characters in the world use this energy to fight.
Secondly, when heavenly principles created a new world order, the sun and moon created by Nibelung were destroyed, so there is no need to use UES for scaling here because the sun was not only created but also destroyed.

Based on those it's fine then. Can't comment on the scaling, but the rating itself is fine.

 

[Mommyleona]

That's kinda funny because a bunch of verse used their creation feats as one of their ratings.

ik its off topic, but just for example, like how recently in SDS everyone and their mom got scaled to 4-B from a creaton feat from the god of the verse, despite not even being in the same realm of power, just by downscaling, but when its Genshin??? NAHH you cant ever

 

[IStar0thh]

sigh

Put it simply, Sinners >= Sovereigns, the same sovereigns who fought the four shades and heavenly principles who got their 4-C from Nibelung, the Sovereigns got their 4-C because of they fighting those four shades and heavenly principles.
Understand?

That wasn't even your argument in the op, bro. Your argument was simply Rhinedottir, but whatever. Now tell me where it says the Sinners are superior to the Sovereigns who fought in the war.

Because even if you move the Sovereigns to 4-C, the Sinners still only have planetary statements — those won’t magically turn into star ones. Once again, you’d have to prove that Rhinedottir was already star level before merging with The Life; otherwise, your argument has no weight.

And I’ll refrain from commenting on the absurd chainscaling this would cause later on — considering the Narwhal fight with Neuvillette + Traveler;
Skirk, and everything else that would get dragged into it.

 

[MSahla]

Now tell me where it says the Sinners are superior to the Sovereigns who fought in the war.

Skirk is implied to be equal if not stronger than prime Neuvillette while Surtalogi is many times stronger than Skirk who's implied to be equal to Neuvillette. Thats just mean Surtalogi > Neuvillette.

Sinner like Surtalogi which is stated to be many times stronger than an entire world even when he alone, that includes all seven sovereigns within the world.

Rhinedottir 500 years ago who brought destruction to the whole Universe.

 

[MSahla]

ik its off topic, but just for example, like how recently in SDS everyone and their mom got scaled to 4-B from a creaton feat from the god of the verse, despite not even being in the same realm of power, just by downscaling, but when its Genshin??? NAHH you cant ever

Well thats not what happened in Genshin anyway, theres an obvious reasons behind it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

ik its off topic, but just for example, like how recently in SDS everyone and their mom got scaled to 4-B from a creaton feat from the god of the verse, despite not even being in the same realm of power, just by downscaling, but when its Genshin??? NAHH you cant ever

In SDS the creation feat required less energy output than other attacks. SDS also has a UES, which is why it got approved of. The OP supplied no evidence of it scaling when SDS already had existing evidence of that stuff.

 

[Mommyleona]

In SDS the creation feat required less energy output than other attacks. SDS also has a UES, which is why it got approved of. The OP supplied no evidence of it scaling when SDS already had existing evidence of that stuff.

dont want to get into it here, but im just curious where was it proven that creation feat required less energy than other attacks? i remember previously no one scaled to DK's creation but now everyone does

 

[Puppet43]

For the Five Sinners part, thanks to Rhinedottir who's one of the five sinners merged herself with the Ruler of Life Naberius and become one of the Four Shades now so the Sinners can be scaled to the Four Shades.

I think this is a better arg to put Sinner at this lvl:
All Sinners should be relative to each other, with them having feats like Gold eating Naberius and having statments of "being equal to the human realm" which is a statment they share with sovereigns like Neuvillette

 

[Puppet43]

Nibelung Should be stronger than seven dragon kings，I don't understand why the tier are the same

They just downscale of him, because in the first Dragon vs Celestia war Nibelung was travelling the universe, so bassicly Primordial One and Shades vs 7 Sovereings (and still manage to put a fight for 40 years at worst, some even surviving the war, like Apep and Xiuh)

 

[MSahla]

I think this is a better arg to put Sinner at this lvl:
All Sinners should be relative to each other, with them having feats like Gold eating Naberius and having statments of "being equal to the human realm" which is a statment they share with sovereigns like Neuvillette

I dont think Rhine eating Naberius' heart is a good feat for that justification because Rhine is just lucky found her heart in a random dungeon, but i agree that all of them should be relative to each other because they divided among themselves a very large amount of abyssal power.

 

[MSahla]

Also, is two staff votes is enough to apply anything here? or three votes