Giorno's age manipulation

[WyattR612]

Shouldn't Giorno's age manipulation be useless to humans beings? Since...

1. Throughout the series we've never seen this ability works on humans or at least be named to be workful on them, either on a databook, WoG or somewhere else. I'm sure if Araki planned that, would be at least be named explicitly.
   
   
2. The databook 'JOJO A-GO!GO!' says something interesting.
   
   
   
   
   
   Spoiler: Transcript

   「意識」が暴走
   人間を殴り生命パワーを与えると、殴られた者の感覚だけが暴走。 すべての動きがゆっくりと見えるようになり、痛みも遅く感じてしまう。
   
   
   Spoiler: DeepL translation (PC)

   Consciousness" runs amok.
   When a person is struck and given life power, only the senses of the struck person go out of control. All movement appears slow and pain is perceived as slow.
   Spoiler: DeepL translation (mobile)

   Consciousness" runs amok.
   When a human being is struck and given life power, only the senses of the struck person go out of control. All movement appears slow and pain is perceived as slow.
   Spoiler: Google translation

   "Consciousness" goes out of control
   If you hit a human and give it life power, only the senses of the person who was hit go out of control. All movements seem slow and pain feels slow.
   
   3 translations because some name human and other one just person, but i think that everybody gets the point. That be named the given life power on a human ONLY makes the senses go out of control, not age or something and it's very explicit that would be the only thing that would affect them.

Agree: 3 (@Aseka, @BOEGVELD & @Shey)
Neutral: 0
Disagree: 0

 

[Aseka]

So he get sense manip then

 

[WyattR612]

So he get sense manip then

Just clarify that Age Manipulation didn't work on human beings on his profile. He already has sense manip.

 

[Aseka]

Just clarify that Age Manipulation didn't work on human beings on his profile. He already has sense manip.

I see, should be added then.

 

[BOEGVELD]

I've tried to point this out before too, so I agree.

 

[WyattR612]

Bump

 

[WyattR612]

Bump

 

[Shey]

So I'm guessing this removes nothing and gives sense manip, And clarifies a misconception?
Okay Agree

 

[WyattR612]

So I'm guessing this removes nothing and gives sense manip, And clarifies a misconception?
Okay Agree

Yeah, basically. It should be listed in weakness something like:

Weaknesses: Any damage taken by Gold Experience will be reflected on Giorno. Gold Experience needs to hit an object to transform something. Its healing ability is not meant to heal and is rather painful when used that way. It requires a sufficient amount of heat to create the most life. His Age Manipulation doesn't works if he uses on a human. | Any damage taken by GER will reflect onto Giorno.

And if we get more demanding, it could also be with those who have an organism similar to that of a human, but idk

 

[Eficiente]

I agree with this. It should be on the P&A's Age Manipulation rather than on Weaknesses. Can you name that scan's title in Imgur "JOJO A-GO!GO! databook" and add the transcrip & translations in the description?

 

[Chariot190]

And now I have to actually reply because people are getting to far ahead of things lmao.

I'm going to have to hard disagree, especially because the alleged scan doesn't even say what you think it's saying, and if it did, it'd still be demonstrably wrong
and thus subject to scrutiny.
Not to mention, there's an inherent misunderstanding in how the two effects get applied.

Gio striking and using some energy is sense manipulation. This is obvious.
But that isn't what he did to age organisms, he continuously gives something life energy in excess, and continued to do so, until it exhausted its natural lifespan. This isn't a one strike and done type deal like the sense manip, it's a continuous process.
He didn't grab Bruno before holding him down and injecting him full of life energy until he exhausted his whole life span. He just struck him with a bit and it ****** with his senses as the life energy amped his perception, If he did that and all it did was sense manip still, you'd be right, but that isn't what happened. And thus, trying to say "well in this instance something else happened!", without realizing the two differences couldn't be further apart in what was actually done, makes this whole thread a bit suspect.

All it is, is two different applications of life energy, in much the same way how Gio injecting Bruno's body with life energy caused him to revive and live his life till the life energy ran out, obviously Bruno's senses didn't run out of control nor did it just fail because it only has a single application on humans and that being sense manip and nothing else.
You would unironically have to argue that Gio's life energy can't do what it did to Bruno (funnily enough, the same person this sense manip was used on), and thus, we now have a major inconsistency that is so overwhelming ******* huge that it can't be hand waved in any possible way.


Giorno healed Bruno, giving him some life energy into his body, instead of making Bruno's senses run wild, it extended his life a bit, delaying his death by giving about 3 days worth of life energy for his body to run off of.

Ironically, this should make it blatantly obvious Gio can manipulate or interfere with the life span of humans, given he literally did. He gave Bruno life energy that equated to about 3 days worth of life. Now, if you will, imagine if Gio didn't stop after he thought he was healed, but kept pumping him full of life energy, what if instead of a few days worth, he kept going and gave him a few months, a few years, a hundred years? What would you think would happen if instead of 3 days of life he gave Bruno like 100 years worth of life in a few seconds? Now imagine that one tree where Gio gave it a bunch of life energy non-stop, forcing it to grow and live out its biological life.

Unless you're about to argue that no, Gio can't give people (humans) life energy to prolong their life and claim all his energy is capable of doing on humans is sense manip (Because that's what this thread is claiming, that the ONLY thing the life energy can do on humans is sense manip and nothing else), then this CRT would be objectively and demonstrably false. Because we know it can do more depending on how it's applied.

Everything past this point was written after I got home, so I'll be repeating some stuff again so bear with me.
I also want to point out, even though I really shouldn't because this is basic english, but when it says "only senses", it's talking about in reference to the whole body, not in reference to what the life energy can do as a whole. As in "only the senses go out of the control, the rest of the body isn't effected and can't keep up" which, it literally elaborates on in the next sentence so I'm not sure how you're even misinterpreting it.
It doesn't say "only senses go out of control and it can't do anything else at all against humans", this is basic context you're skipping out on in regards to the statement and hyper focusing one word out of the paragraph, that, when you actually take it as a whole and in context of what the sentence is talking about, you would know what it's saying and what it's actually trying to explain, I shouldn't even have to explain how context sensitive that language is, but even in English that's what it's saying because basic contextual linguistics is a thing, source is me fyi, english major fyi. Yes I regret it but it was easy lmao.

Fyi the exact word used is "Dake", which can mean only, just, nothing but, simply, nothing else, alone, etc. It doesn't mean just "Only", for example, using one of the other words it means as an example "If a person is struck and given life energy, just the senses go out of control. All movement and pain is perceived as slow"/If a person is struck and given life energy, the senses alone go out of control. All movement and pain is perceived as slow"/etc.
A lot less implicit than "only", but again, that would be because when it's saying "only the senses" it's talking in the context of when hit ONLY the senses and not the rest of the body get amped and as such, things like movements of others and pain is slow as ****.

But to look at a newer guide's elaboration given it's quite a bit larger


"When Gold. E hits a creature, it injects an excess amount of life energy into it. Because of that, only the senses of the opponent who was hit go out of control, and every action, including that of himself, appear slow. Furthermore this ability can be cancelled by the main body at will."

So there it is again, "only", but this time more clear in what it means as it elaborates in the same sentence if it wasn't already obvious in gogo. It's saying "only" as in "only the senses in relation to the rest of the body" not "only" in terms of what it can do.

Coincidentally, it elaborates quite a bit further. It also says, ironic given the section title, that it's not even exclusive to humans but it's simply whenever he hits a creature in general (Shengwu/生物 - Living thing/organism/creature/life/biology/etc), meaning, no, this isn't even really "just what happens when applied to humans" but "what happens when a living being is struck".
Now, if he can use this ability on other organisms, but can also do other things like age them, why would we assume humans get excluded in that? Instead of just assuming, correctly mind you, that he can just use this ability in multiple different ways like we see him do time and time again? It's blatantly selective against animals, nothing says, despite the claims above, that it isn't selective on humans too. (Funnily, the ability itself is actually selective, it can be turned off and on at will by Gio).

Also Veller also clarifies, again, how he does the age manip stuff (same exact page fyi).


"Short-Range Power Type Stand with the ability to create life from matter. When he hits or touches non-organic material, he breathes life into it. By continuing to give life, it will grow to the until the end of its lifespan. It is also possible to return the life created back into inorganic material."

Veller clarifying that in order to actually age something, he has to continuously give it life energy.
Thus, as mentioned above, it's acknowledged blatantly that age manip isn't just a "hit and done" type thing, but a process, which isn't what he did to Bruno or how he does sense manip, the life energy involved is magnitudes apart, one is a quick strike, one must be done at length.

Also in Go-Go it says this about the age manip, same guide as the above OP.


"It is also possible to give life energy to a creature, and if he continues to give life energy he can kill it." (生物).

Note, it just says creatures, not animals or what not, it also uses the exact same word as the description for the sense manip (Shengwu - 生物) as the Veller scan for what he can effect with his sense manip.
Yes, that is right, the age manip is again, a continuous process and just a thing he can do if he decides to go the route of pumping life energy into a being without stopping, and again is just a thing that he can do on creatures in general, as a different application of his abilities.
And there's no "it didn't specify human!" or "it said creatures so humans don't count!", as it uses the exact same word that it also uses when explaining the sense manip and what gets effected by that, that is to say, literally just organisms in general, for both. Age manip is a special application, not the default, but if chosen to do so, it works on organisms as a whole, and same with sense manip.

So yeah no, the gogo scan is excluding context in which the statement is being said and hyper focusing one word without recognizing what it's actually referring to (Which I honestly don't understand how any of you can even confuse this? This is basic linguistics), newer guide just elaborates it even further making it even more obvious as if it wasn't already obvious. Both the sense manip and age manip are flat out said to just work on organisms/creatures in general with the same term being used for both, indicating that yes, it's just the same shit.
And the Bruno instance is just a single application of life energy, how he does the age shit is done via different process that he must choose to do at length and is stated as such in both guides, he must do it at length, a punch doesn't cut it. And even then, we know his life energy has different effects on humans depending on how it's applied because we SEE him do other things with it, plus sense manip is organisms in general and a ability he can flip on and off (Says so himself against Sabbath, it backfired so he stopped using it and said as much in the guide), and if he can use it on other animals but can also age manip them as we see, that makes it perfectly clear it's just two different applications.

Plus we see him effect human life spans via giving them life energy anyway and is a major plot point of the part as he gave Bruno 3 days worth of extra life energy to live off, the age manip is just that dialed up to 11 by doing that, and just not stopping. This alone disproves the OP, as for the OP to be right, the ONLY THING it would be able to do is sense manip, that's it, nothing else, nothing, notta, but that's demonstrably not true and is used in such a way that even ties into lifespan lengthening and giving life energy to effect it.

So hard disagree, false equivalence between what he did to the tree and what he did to Bruno, they aren't the same even if they use the same energy source, plus an objectively false assumption in that life energy on humans has but a singular effect given we know for a fact that isn't the case, and ironically, the other displayed effect on humans also involves life span.

 

[Chariot190]

Only way OP would be right is if you're going to argue Gio didn't extend a human's life via giving life energy (something he wouldn't be able to do if OP is accepted), that the same word being used for both age manip and sense manip (that being creatures/organisms) doesn't mean anything (and that a general "organisms" for both somehow doesn't include people and animals depending on which), not knowing basic linguistics in what "only" in context is actually talking about, all the while ignoring the major difference in how the two things get applied of which it's acknowledged as such 3 different times.
I'm going to have call this sus. Just specify it's OOC or hard to pull it off because he needs to do it at length.

Fyi.
Pages JoJo-A-GoGo!! section 62.

And JoJoveller Pg. 139 and 140.

 

[Baken384]

I disagree via Chariot's reasonings.
As shown in the op, when a person is STRUCK, only the senses goes berserk. It says struck implying getting hit.
Thanks to the scans Chariot provided, it explicitly says it has to keep on giving life in order to grow a person's lifespan to the point it ends and doesn't just one tap people and they begin to age up, GE has to continuously give them life in order for the aging ability to activate.

To put it in simpler terms.
GE hitting a person and pumps them with life energy means their senses go berserk
GE continuously hits and continuously pumps them up with life energy would make them age.

 

[BOEGVELD]

That Bruno example further proves it doesn't work against humans, funnily enough.

 

[Chariot190]

That Bruno example further proves it doesn't work against humans, funnily enough.

Uh, what? It literally does prove it, you proves the OP objectively false.
"Gio can't do ANYTHING but sense manip on humans!"
Is the crutch of the OP, and the sole evidence for why age manip can't be used on them, but, as we know, for an absolute demonstrable fact, guess what? He can do other shit, explicitly, aka you people just misinterpreted the **** out of a basic line. And I don't mean any offense to Wyatt, he a chill dude (Even tried contacting him first before replying) but you're actively ignoring what the scans in the OP are ACTUALLY saying.

literally does something else, that being giving extra life energy to prolong a human's life

What in the actual **** are you talking about? Do you not understand that the only way the OP could possibly be right, is if the only thing it can do is sense manip, nothing else. That's wrong, so CRT is wrong, end of.

That isn't even getting into the fact apparently, people just don't know basic language skills, or the fact everyone just ignores the fact sense manip and age manip are done via two distinctly different things, in which they're both stated to be applicable on the exact same things. Or are you going to argue against the very texts you're previously trying to use as support for your argument? And age manip can ONLY be done via a specific process, which he didn't do on Bruno, so saying this different ability he did disproves this other one is wrong. It'd be like saying Gio can't sense life against Bruno because he didn't in that fight even though we now he can from elsewhere and does it to both animals and humans.

Op is wrong, it's said he can do it on just organisms in general as long as he continues to do it, with the same terminology as what the sense manip works on. This isn't even complex.

 

[Huzy]

Pretty sure the entire "only" thing is just a reference to this

 

[Chariot190]

Pretty sure the entire "only" thing is just a reference to this

You would be correct. "Only", as in not "only thing it can do" but only as in "only the senses go wild (in relation to the rest of the body, which doesn't)". As evidenced by the fact they literally elaborate on that in not only the next sentence, but in some cases, the same sentence as in veller.

 

[chosen]

I dissagree fra

 

[Shey]

Oh, damn Chariot ftw
I disagree fra

But I still stand on the fact that this should get Sense Manipulation added to Giorno

 

[Chariot190]

Oh, damn Chariot ftw
I disagree fra

But I still stand on the fact that this should get Sense Manipulation added to Giorno

He has it though already doesn't he? I swore he had it for the past handful of years.

 

[DRW001]

damn i was writing up a small text document for this but chariot beat me to it lol
anyway disagree fra

But I still stand on the fact that this should get Sense Manipulation added to Giorno

Already has it, though i guess it wouldnt hurt adding a couple scans, such as one that says he can freely turn it on and off

 

[Shey]

He has it though already doesn't he? I swore he had it for the past handful of years.

Wth, it didn't show up when I tried the "Find In Page". Thingy



Well damn this whole CRT is almost useless, no offense to OP

 

[Theamz]

Gonna have to agree with chariot.