General Terminator downgrade

[Qawsedf234]

Current profile.

So my issues with the profile at a glance

AP
9-A: This is the feat and the calc that it links to. If you just watch the link, you'll see why the reasoning is bogus. The calc is for fragmenting an entire door in one strike. The T-800 took over 30 seconds to punch a single arms sized hole through the door. This is only a 9-B showing.

8-C: This calc is just based on a wrong assumption. The Terminator was trapped in the dam and took three weeks to dig itself out. This was not one punch, but literal weeks of digging. The feat just needs to be scrapped entirely or the key removed.

Speed
Generally fine, however the supersonic feat is for the superior T-850 and not the T-800 which is in the bulk of the movies. Though people would scale anyways through the T-X fighting the T-800 and T-1000 so I guess its fine for the most part.

Lifting Strength
I'm a bit iffy on this honestly. Class 5 is fine, but Class 25 seems inconsistent with other things. Other Terminators have struggled stopping a much lighter helicopter and in-general this is their best feat by leaps and bounds when its done super casually. I'm not saying we get rid of it, but I am saying it should be something like "Class 5, likely Class 25" or something along those lines.

Durability
These are the current reasonings for the 9-A rating

Durability: Small Building level (Was in a massive semi-truck explosion and only its flesh was burned away. Was rammed against a divider and ran over by a semi-truck and only received a limp and some optical damage. Was shot 10 times by an Ithaca 37 shotgun and was only momentarily knocked down. A car fuel tank exploding right next to it does no damage to it. A high-speed car crash only jammed its forearm, which it easily repaired) | At least Small Building level (Increased durability) | At least Large Building level+ (Can withstand physical blows from other T-800's, 1000's, and the T-X), Regeneration makes it very hard to kill (got reactivated by the T-1000)

So in order

• There's no calcs for any of these
• The car explosion would not be 9-A due to him not being in the epicenter of the explosion. As a reminder the full kinetic energy of a M1 Abrams tank round is only 9-B+
• A car ramming him is only 9-B. The linked video also does not show him being rammed into a divider by a car, but being pushed into one
• Taking a shotgun hit is only 9-B
• A car exploding near him is only 9-B
• The car crash is also only 9-B
• The comic durability scaling is incorrect since its circular based on its faulty AP scaling

T-850 and the T-X
These two need their own section since they do have evidence for something akin to a 9-A rating. The T-X can destroy a small building with her plasma arm, and withstood her plasma cannon and a RPG exploding at point blank range. However even if she's 9-A durability wise, she doesn't have the evidence for being 9-A without her plasma cannon. She can be matched by T-1000s and T-800s physically, and against the T-850 neither did literally any damage to the other until electricity got involved.

The T-850 can get a 9-A or 8-C AP with its fuel cells however, since going by the novelization it makes a rather giant explosion.

Suggested Changes

• The 8-C key from every comic profile is removed
• The Likely Class 25 rating becomes -> Class 5, likely Class 25
• Every 9-A key is changed to 9-B or "At least 9-B"
• The T-X has 9-A durability and 9-A AP with her plasma cannon
• The T-850 is "At least 9-B" physically and either 9-A or 8-C with its fuel cell explosoin

 

[NotoriouSoda]

So Robocop still beat T-800?

Nice

 

[Qawsedf234]

Robocop is next when/if this goes through.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

This looks fine at a glance. Will review more later.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, both Terminator and Robocop have quite a bit of issues and lack of calculations; and they seems to assume composites in Robocop's case. And the Terminators while somewhat comparable are different characters so some alternate profiles may be in order. And Terminator also has multiple timelines; the comics also being a separate canon.

The gas explosion is also a gas explosion, in which even things that look like a Tier 8 explosion are technically only 9-B at best durability wise. Since gas is mostly heat and not much force; which heat works differently than force where the volume of the target, emissivity of the target, thermal equilibrium, specific temperature, and wattage of the heat all need to be taken into account for feats related to them. Which will often downgrade those types of feats a great deal.

Lifting strength looks pretty fine IMO, the school bus was casually with one hand. And the nuclear plast door lifting feats are also within the same range.

I agree on the door destruction feats fully.

Also, the last think is that I think the Hydrogen fuel cells are heavily downplayed. They're stated to detonate like that of a small Hydrogen bomb. And considering H-Bombs are the strongest types of nukes, it would be well into the Tier 7 department. But those are suicide attacks that do not scale to anyone and probably best to calc that mushroom cloud in T3.

 

[SuperAPM]

Agree completely with all the issues presented

 

[Qawsedf234]

Lifting strength looks pretty fine IMO, the school bus was casually with one hand. And the nuclear plast door lifting feats are also within the same range.

Yeah. They have the high end showings to support it. Just in my view we either get rid of their "Likely" rating and make them just Class 25 or change it to "Class 5, likely Class 25".

But ignoring the explosion calc, they have such a large plethora of casual 9-B feats. But not much more. They consistently get damaged by large explosions and rockets, even the more extreme and broken models like the T-Infinity

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Fair enough on the lifting strength proposals then.

And yes, I agree with those points. That 9-B seems most consistent.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So if Goji gives his sign off on everything I'll edit the profiles with the suggested ratings.

 

[Abstractions]

Having discussed this a bit with you before, I agree fully on the changes.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

After a thorough review I agree fully on these proposed revisions.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Are we going with 9-A or 8-C for the fuel cell explosion by the way.

 

[SuperAPM]

I think it should just be calced outright

Both for that one in the desert and the one in the base.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Until it gets calced I'll just go with "At least 9-A" to get everything wrapped up. Since it scales to no one whenever it does get calced it can just be applied automatically.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Here's a feat for it, someone could put it in the calculation requests thread.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So upon editing I have more questions here

• Why is the T-3000 rated as gifted
• Should we scale the T-3000 to the T-X or is timeline shenanigans so massive that's not possible

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Terminator has some Genius to Extrodinary Genius intelligence feats; Mr King brought a big list.

 

[Stefano4444]

Looks fine overall, but i do have an issue about the semi-truck explosion.

T-800 did survive the blast which was powerful enough to destroy the truck itself, it should still be a 9-A feat.

Although we should need to calc it in anycase, just to make sure.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Inverse Square Law often makes calcs like that less impressive.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

The truck feat does seem 9-A. And since 9-B is so casual, it could scale.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems fine to me as well.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Qawsedf234 someone brought up the T-850 tanking the T-X's plasma cannon Right here. Do you have any thoughts?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Earlier in that scene the T-850 was hit with a plasma shot that burned through his torso, damaged a fuel cell, and disabled him for awhile, until his back up systems kicked in and he rebooted himself.

I'm not against him being 9-A durability wise as a note, I just don't know if nearly being killed by the plasma cannon is a justifiable reason for it. As for the firetruck thing, he wasn't hit directly by hit, but still survived the explosion caused by it hitting the firetruck.

Finally I should note that the other user misunderstood the linked calc. That equation was for the full fragmentation of a car, not for just. a portion of it being destroyed like with the firetruck.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Earlier in that scene the T-850 was hit with a plasma shot that burned through his torso, damaged a fuel cell, and disabled him for awhile, until his back up systems kicked in and he rebooted himself.

I'm not against him being 9-A durability wise as a note, I just don't know if nearly being killed by the plasma cannon is a justifiable reason for it. As for the firetruck thing, he wasn't hit directly by hit, but still survived the explosion caused by it hitting the firetruck.

Finally I should note that the other user misunderstood the linked calc. That equation was for the full fragmentation of a car, not for just. a portion of it being destroyed like with the firetruck.

What about the truck feat in the first movie?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Truck feat in the first movie is seemingly just 9B, due to the T-800s distances from the explosion and anti-feats it gets in later comics/movies (like being downed by .50 BMG rounds or being taken out by RPGs).

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Truck feat in the first movie is seemingly just 9B, due to the T-800s distances from the explosion and anti-feats it gets in later comics/movies (like being downed by .50 BMG rounds or being taken out by RPGs).

Still should preferably be calced. And I mean Terminator was in the truck himself

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I agree with a lot of those points being said; furthermore; the plasma cannon does appear to be mostly heat rather than force. Which makes it even more skeptical to scale to Terminator's durability. But it's more seen as an anti-feat rather than a feat for Terminator. I made mentions I cannot stress enough that "Getting severely crippled but still surviving" are things to argue against it being a solid durability feat.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Yeah, I agree with a lot of those points being said; furthermore; the plasma cannon does appear to be mostly heat rather than force. Which makes it even more skeptical to scale to Terminator's durability. But it's more seen as an anti-feat rather than a feat for Terminator. I made mentions I cannot stress enough that "Getting severely crippled but still surviving" are things to argue against it being a solid durability feat.

Well, I see nothing wrong with it. You survive=your durability scales. It just may downscale

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well still don't accept practices like that; there are way too many instances of a fodder character surviving a punch from a bloodlusted god tier, and got crippled but still lived. Also, durability is the ability to not only survive an attack, but stand up to with with moderate damage at worst. Using examples like that as a durability feat alongside treating chip damage as AP is the epitome of creating loopholes.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I know that lore wise one of the key differences between the 800 and 850 was better resistance to heat and plasma based weapons. Which is why a T-800 was destroyed outright by a T-X plasma shot but a T-850 managed to survive albeit in a near critical state for a bit.

But I can see them being "At least 9-B, likely higher" since the T-850 withstands basicall everything thrown at him besides the Hydrogen Fuel Cell, a electric bursts and the plasma cannon in the movie. Comics also feature the T-850 physically contending with the T-Infinity and breaking throw blast doors in one or so punches.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I know that lore wise one of the key differences between the 800 and 850 was better resistance to heat and plasma based weapons. Which is why a T-800 was destroyed outright by a T-X plasma shot but a T-850 managed to survive albeit in a near critical state for a bit.

But I can see them being "At least 9-B, likely higher" since the T-850 withstands basicall everything thrown at him besides the Hydrogen Fuel Cell, a electric bursts and the plasma cannon in the movie. Comics also feature the T-850 physically contending with the T-Infinity and breaking throw blast doors in one or so punches.

We should calc the truck feat anyway

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I mean first movie truck

 

[Ong.ruixiang]

Yeah, I agree with a lot of those points being said; furthermore; the plasma cannon does appear to be mostly heat rather than force. Which makes it even more skeptical to scale to Terminator's durability. But it's more seen as an anti-feat rather than a feat for Terminator. I made mentions I cannot stress enough that "Getting severely crippled but still surviving" are things to argue against it being a solid durability feat.

But actually it has already been clearly shown in the scene that the T-850 was affected and most likely hit by the force of the plasma cannon.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The plasma bolt hit the front of the firetruck, but it didn't directly hit the T-850.

 

[Ong.ruixiang]

The plasma bolt hit the front of the firetruck, but it didn't directly hit the T-850.

Yeah i get it but this might be the destructive force of the plasma bolt that hit the T-850 in the other scene before that while the explosion of the semi-truck in the original Terminator movie starts at the back of it (which is the difference).

 

[Qawsedf234]

In the original movie the explosion was from that back of the semi-truck that spread outwards. Meaning the explosion ended up gaining a lot of surface area. The plasma bolt is a concentrated attack that then explodes when it hits something.

Even then the bolt disabled the T-850 and could have killed it if it was aimed at his head or higher in the chest.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Also again, we usually just consider "He got screwed up pretty bad, but he still lived" as a prime example of survivability =/= durability.