General Grievous' Tier Discussion

[CinCameron20]

Disclaimer: I know that Jedi have Street-level Durability w/out Force Augmentation.

Okay, I could not contain the confused feeling I've had over this for a long period of time, so here it goes. I'm going to be entirely focused on Legends/EU Grievous, not Disney/Canon.

General Grievous is listed as Large Building Level+ Attack Potency, and Town level Durability. The problem that is already seen here is that he is already drastically lower in power to the likes of Obi-Wan Kenobi, Shaak Ti, and Mace Windu. But that's not the first problem I see. His Attack Potency scales from being able to trade blows with Obi-Wan, who could bend Grievous' arm, and pry his chest open. Grievous has Town level durability, according to the page. Shouldn't his AP scale, if we're using that example?

General Grievous has taken telekinetic attacks from Obi-Wan, Shaak Ti, and Mace Windu, and in the case of the first two, he is only momentarily staggered, or has taken no damage. As shown in the micro-series for Clone Wars: 2003, General Grievous can take the telekinetic assault from both Roron Corobb, and Shaak Ti and is left visibly unscathed. A similar scenario occurs in the Labyrinth of Evil Novelization, which details the battle.

He has crushed the skull of the likes of Soon Bayts and broke Adi Gallia's neck. As described in the Labyrinth of Evil Novel, General Grievous was capable of overwhelming 4 Jedi Masters at once, and before that, he was capable of nearly stalemating Mace Windu in a light-saber duel, only losing due to Windu throwing him off of the bullet-train they were fighting on top of.

There are many other cases where Grievous has defeated Counsel Masters, Jedi Knights, or other acclaimed jedi, but I did want to bring this topic up due to how strange his placing is. Any input or suggestions?

 

[Meosos]

Agreed. Grievous was always portayed as being able to kill highly trained jedi knights, and only inferior to powerful council masters. The last thing depends on the version, clone wars grievous was really downplayed but other versions have been capable to beat several jedi at once (including shaakti or ki adi mundi). If I remember correctly he even beat Ventress and Durge together and in Clone Wars he could at least trade blows with her.

Conclusion: Grievous should be 7-C for reasons above.

Ventress is also scaled to him.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Meosos - You're talking about wanting to upgrade Canon Grievous, which that micro-series has nothing to do with. This is Legends Grievous.

His defeat of the 5 jedi during the battle of Hypori only occurred after he had waited for them to tire from a completely one-sided battle where they were outnumbered/outmatched by a massive number of B2 Super Battle Droids. After tiring them, he applied fear tactics, not allowing them to see his location until he wanted them to, successfully killing the padawan who ran out, and displaying his horrific appearance to unsettle the Jedi before diving in to engage them.

But his other feats in Legends, and the Battle of Coruscant (Labyrinth of Evil version) proves his ability to contend w/ the likes of Shaak Ti and Mace Windu individually anyways.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I absolutely agree that he needs an upgrade. He is severely underplayed for the sole reason he lacks the Force, despite that the only reason he exists in and out of universe is to slaughter Jedi.

There's also a random pilot droid in the Return of the Sith Novelization who can react and process information at the speed of light. Which probably scales to Griveous who is one of the fastest and most advanced machines in the galaxy.

 

[The_Everlasting]

^

This.

 

[Dark649]

Boba/Jango Fett alongside Durge should be also not underestimated.

 

[CinCameron20]

Don't forget Grievous' Elite IG-100 MagnaGuards, which are stated in ROTS novel to be capable of moving and reacting to near-light speeds, and Grievous is automatically above them.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Boba and Jango don't scale to Jedi, that much I can confirm.

 

[CinCameron20]

And Durge has that massive healing factor.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Don't forget Grievous' Elite IG-100 MagnaGuards, which are stated in ROTS novel to be capable of moving and reacting to near-light speeds, and Grievous is automatically above them.

I already said that, but yeah.

That scales to Grievous.

He had the Force to guide him through, and the tri-fighter had only its electronic reflexes—but those electronic reflexes operated at roughly the speed of light. It stayed on his tail as if he were dragging it by a tow cable.

 

[CinCameron20]

Oh, I didn't see you mention that. You said "Pilot droid" but meh .

Very few jedi (and by that, I mean like 5) in Legends are capable of even posing a threat to Grievous, which is why I wanted to bring this up. It's strange for him to be merely scaled to Durge, when he stomped him in their fight (along with Ventress) and that he can beat just about everyone unless they have a purple light-saber or happen to be a green gremlin.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems reasonable.

 

[CinCameron20]

Is everyone here fine if General Grievous for Legends is scaled to "At least High 6-A" for being capable of outright defeating or contending with Jedi Masters and Counsel Masters such as Adi Gallia, Stass Allie, Shaak Ti, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ki-Adi Mundi, and others of similar power?

Are there any issues with this?

How should Canon Grievous be handled? Should he be placed at "At least 7-C"?

 

[The_Everlasting]

No at least, just High 6-A.

 

[CinCameron20]

Okay. Are the canon changes acceptable?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Probably.

 

[Schnee_One]

Agreed

 

[CinCameron20]

@Everlasting - some reasons I would have for his canon changes would be:

Contended with Eeth Koth, and could simultaneously take on both Quinlan Vos and Asajj Ventress [during Dark Disciple]. He has defeated Adi Gallia and rivals Obi-Wan.

^Does that work?

 

[CinCameron20]

I applied the edits. If there's anything that I missed, or need to change, let me know.