Garou’s questionable profile

[TimmyTurnero]

Garou’s profile has a few weird justifications in his ap section, I also believe there should be separate keys. One of the keys being post Royal ripper rematch and Rover fight, second being post adapting to Gyoro’s telekinesis and adapting to Orochi.

I say the first key should be added as he would just be higher into small city level for beating Royal ripper, and against pochi he does grow stronger but there is no proof of him jumping over 150x stronger.

For the second he adapted against Gyoro and even grew enough to block a punch from Orochi, which could harm him (his durability should scale from Pochi). This would allow him to be 7-A-7A+.

His justifications for 7-A lists his attack potency should scale to his durability but before adapting against Orochi there’s no evidence of this happening so it should be removed probably.

Supporters: 0
Idk: 0
Don’t agree (losers): 0

 

[ByAsura]

There's just genuinely no point to this, or any proof.

You're doubting that he scales to his own durability, but all versions of Garou 100% do. This one isn't provably different, and it's just convoluting an already bloated profile with an adaptation that exists for a few minutes at best.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

By similar logic we could scale Royal Ripper to half monster Garou lol.
And no one wants that.

 

[SemiRaedi]

Personally I think Garou should get a key in-between the half monster that fought RR and the version that fought Darkshine but that's just me (like post rover or against Orochi since he could have heat resistance be a new addition to give the key more additions).

 

[Kachon123]

following

 

[ImposingTiger]

By similar logic we could scale Royal Ripper to half monster Garou lol.
And no one wants that.

Garou evolves after eating monster flesh, he is not the same Garou that fight Rover later on.

 

[ImposingTiger]

That said, I think the profile is fine as it is now.

 

[ByAsura]

Garou evolves after eating monster flesh, he is not the same Garou that fight Rover later on.

I don't think it's ever stated that he evolves there. Maybe here (even that could refer to his human state), but I'm not sure.

 

[ImposingTiger]

I don't think it's ever stated that he evolves there. Maybe here (even that could refer to his human state), but I'm not sure.

I was referring to the image you posted because Tareo saw Garou one shot RR before and didn't say anything, although it is true that he could be referring to his human self. And to this. It's possible he got stronger after eating those monsters, it's the only way we could explain why RR doesn't scale to Rover without saying it's an outlier.

 

[ByAsura]

I'd say that if he got stronger at any point there, it's while fighting the monsters. Him just eating the monsters is because he has an enormous appetite.

Royal Ripper just doesn't scale to Rover, regardless. Garou is vulnerable to bladed weapons, as his hand was pierced by Spring Mustachio, and his leg was cut open by Golden Ball. The fact that he decapitated him with one punch illustrates this fact.

 

[ImposingTiger]

I'd say that if he got stronger at any point there, it's while fighting the monsters. Him just eating the monsters is because he has an enormous appetite.

Garou is stated to evolve when he has an obstacle to overcome. Those monsters were fodder to him so there's no reason for him to grow. Furthermore, iirc Psykos experimented with monsterization and one of the methods was cannibalism.

Royal Ripper just doesn't scale to Rover, regardless. Garou is vulnerable to bladed weapons, as his hand was pierced by Spring Mustachio, and his leg was cut open by Golden Ball. The fact that he decapitated him with one punch illustrates this fact.

I've alway had a problem with this. Spring Mustachio has a higher rating with Tomboy (and one shoted multiple BS clones which are stated to be easily stronger than A class heroes), and afaik there's nothing contradicting Golden Ball being able to pierce Garou. Him being an A class hero doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to harm S class level characters, because there are multiple factors that make the S class stronger than him (speed, endurance, reaction, durability, abilities...).

 

[ByAsura]

I can see both sides of the argument, honestly.

Except he didn’t successfully use Tomboy against Garou, and a Tiger level could block both of their attacks. The fact is that three characters with bladed weapons have all severely harmed harmed Garou, so there’s a very noticeable pattern indicating that he’s weak to bladed weaponry. In fact, arrows (drawn by the strength of a C-class) and bullets can also pierce him.

 

[ImposingTiger]

and a Tiger level could block both of their attacks

If you are refrring to Kombu Infinity, it wasn't blocked but deflected. Garou could also deflect it without injuries so KI didn't tank that attack.

bullets can also pierce him.

If you are talking about Death Gatling, it's the same as Golden Ball's, and it didn't really damage Garou. The point on avoiding the death shower was protecting Tareo. Plus, fire weapons are much stronger in OPM than irl.

In fact, arrows (drawn by the strength of a C-class) and bullets can also pierce him.

When we go below A class, I can see what you are referring to. But I think it's PIS, because if his weakness to bladed weaponry is so big that C lass heroes can damage him, A class/ S class level characters should literally kill him given the difference of strength.

 

[ByAsura]

Garou can block attacks that far surpass him, like Metal Bat’s swings, due to his skill. Kombu easily deflected GB’s attacks with her tendrils and broke SM’s sword explicitly due to her strength and durability. Basically, she deflects attacks head-on while Garou doesn’t.

I’m talking about Revolver, but DG actually adds to my point because he couldn’t even begin to harm a demon level like Hundred-Eye-Octopus without going for its eyes.

It’s not PIS, it’s just a very blatant vulnerability to sharp objects that pretty much every hero in the task force was exploiting.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Kombu easily deflected GB’s attacks with her tendrils, and broke SM’s sword.

Which proves nothing because it is still a deflection, she didn't recieve a direct impact. Breaking SM's sword doesn't matter here, because the strength comes from the attack, not from the material of the sword itself.

I’m talking about Revolver, but Death Gattaling adds to my point because he couldn’t even begin to harm Hundred-Eye-Octopus.

Why do you think Garou is necessarily stronger than HEO?

It’s not PIS, it’s just a very blatant vulnerability to sharp objects that pretty much every hero in the task force was exploiting.

Just two (arrows and Revolver) unexplainble feats aren't enough to conclude said vulneranbility imo. It's weird that Garou is the only character in the verse with a weakness to sharp objects, especially knowing he is one of the most trained and physical dependant fighters.

 

[ByAsura]

It’s a tiny 4-bladed ball. Even if it’s not directly, the blades would hit. Plus, Spring Mustachio did virtually no damage without Tomboy, and even that only made a small hole (lampposts took much more damage by comparison).

Take that up with our profiles. It might actually be a DSK-level threat, but I’ll save that for another time. Also, all we can say for certain is that’s DG isn’t S-Class, or powerful enough for the Association to send him against anyone.

Combined with (at the very least) Royal Ripper, it definitely is enough proof. I’ll have to look into that claim, because it’s a very bold statement to make.

 

[ByAsura]

I've actually found some more stuff.

Springer was also able to hurt him.

Also, GB's sling is basically just a regular sling with laser sight, and he even has difficulty drawing it back. So it's actual kinetic energy is not completely incomparable to GB's strength, and yet it can pierce Garou's bone after losing some amount of energy by reflecting off walls multiple times.

 

[ImposingTiger]

It’s a tiny 4-bladed ball. Even if it’s not directly, the blades would hit.

The same can be said with Garou. WSRSF doesn't gran intangibility.

Plus, Spring Mustachio did virtually no damage without Tomboy,

We don't know because this time, it is SM who deflects KI's attacks. Given that with a foil you can only attack in a straight line and defense is done with its sides, we can't know whether SM's attacks can do something or not.

and even that only made a small hole

Because it is a concentrated attack.

It might actually be a DSK-level threat, but I’ll save that for another time.

Nice.

Also, all we can say for certain is that’s DG isn’t S-Class, or powerful enough for the Association to send him against anyone.

Because of other factors like speed, stamina, durability, endurance, hax... as I mentioned before. Even Blue Fire and Heavy Tank Fundoshi have the "almost S class rank" status and I doubt they are infinitely above DG, who is portrayed as the leader of the S class group that was going to hunt Garou. He seems to have the lead over Stinger, who can one shot multiple tiger level monsters in an instant.

Springer was also able to hurt him.

My point above. Also, it is very clear that the whole Garou vs A class fight is held under the premise that Garou is weakened, sick and losing consciousness. That means ONE and Murata are deliberately making him vulnerable to every attack in order to give the impression that he is going to lose or that the heroes pose a danger. They likely think that durability decreases by a huge amount when someone is weakened, that's why I call it PIS.

Also, GB's sling is basically just a regular sling with laser sight, and he even has difficulty drawing it back. So it's actual kinetic energy is not completely incomparable to GB's strength, and yet it can pierce Garou's bone after losing some amount of energy by reflecting off walls multiple times.

Nah, he's clearly a glass cannon. Garou one shots him and holds back not to kill heroes. If the projectile is relative to Garou's durability and Garou's AP is blatantly superior to GB's physicals, you know what that leads to, right? You can also make the argument that the projectiles get stronger as they reflect against the walls, but due to how physics work it is unlikely.

 

[ByAsura]

Garou hit the end of the ball, and you could pretty easily avoid a strike from a bat or punch by knocking away the bit that’s not coming towards you.

You can see the blade tips hit the tendrils.

My point was that it’s a small hole compared to a much larger hole in a stone lamppost, so Tomboy’s not all that impressive.

DG’s just a big f**k off gun that fires at ultra-high velocities. There’s no real factors here. Also, high-end Tiger level =/= Garou.

Your point above is a bad point. Firstly, weakening him wouldn’t change his resistance to sharpness. Secondly, no hero there is able to take a direct hit from Garou or withstand his attacks (except Glasses, whom he was toying with to draw out Stinger).

Of course Golden Ball’s attacks are higher than his durability (as an arrow would be if you fired it), my point is that this is someone with B-Class strength firing at someone with durability on par with TTM can still harm him. There’s a point where surface area just can’t overcome sheer durability.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, this went way further than I thought it would while I was asleep, so I’m just gonna restate what I said in the last thread and let everyone else do whatever.

The INITIAL, just fought Showerhead, Super Mouse and Unihorn, Half-Monster Garou has no reason for his AP to scale to his durability. He barely survived Rover’s blast, yes, but did not show that he could fight anyone on that level until he adapted further. And assuming that he’s exactly the same as Human Garou doesn’t make much sense when they have different physiologies. One is a full human, the other is a half-monster. They’re not the same.

At the least, Half-Monster Garou should have an initial Low 7-B tier with an ‘up to at most [Rover tier]’, or his AP justification should just be something like “After adapting, he [insert feat here].

Also regardless, it needs better justification than “Should be comparable to his durability,” because that isn’t, and never has been, a proper AP justification on the wiki.

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, the Garou that survived after RR’s beating is half-monster Garou, not just post-Rover Garou. Secondly, the initial Garou has every reason to scale. Literally every other evolution and near-death amp scales to their durability, even after he was crushed by rocks (something that has far more reason to make him a stone wall than getting beaten to death). The fact that he easily clowned 3 Demon levels of unknown power does nothing to mitigate this.

Now, if you want to separate initial Garou from Rover Garou entirely, I’m not adverse to that. It’s a little unnecessary, but saying his durability doesn’t equal his AP is just illogical, and he does seem to better resist Rover’s blasts over the fight.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Garou hit the end of the ball, and you could pretty easily avoid a strike from a bat or punch by knocking away the bit that’s not coming towards you.

Which is likely what KI did.

You can see the blade tips hit the tendrils.

It's the sides.

My point was that it’s a small hole compared to a much larger hole in a stone lamppost, so Tomboy’s not all that impressive.

You can't go by envirnmental damage because Tomboy >>> BS cell >>> regular A class > making a hole in a lamppost.

DG’s just a big f**k off gun that fires at ultra-high velocities. There’s no real factors here. Also, high-end Tiger level =/= Garou.

That's why I say that if DG only specializes in AP, it's normal he has every other stat as a weakness and the S class rating isn't suited for him in his whole, but only in one specific area, because he would normally lose to other characters due to speed or durability.

Your point above is a bad point. Firstly, weakening him wouldn’t change his resistance to sharpness.

I am not arguing that. I am arguing the intention of the authors in that particular scene.

Secondly, no hero there is able to take a direct hit from Garou or withstand his attacks (except Glasses, whom he was toying with to draw out Stinger).

Because they are glass cannons (Revolver, Stinger, Smile Man...).

And in RR's case, as Tracer said, there's the possibility that his physiology changed due to being half monster. Even if he had that weakness (which I don't agree with) before, we can not know if he still has it when he woke up after nearly dying.

 

[LordTracer]

Now, if you want to separate initial Garou from Rover Garou entirely, I’m not adverse to that. It’s a little unnecessary, but saying his durability doesn’t equal his AP is just illogical, and he does seem to better resist Rover’s blasts over the fight.

I mean, it’s an indexing wiki after all, I see no harm in separating them. It’d be something like:

At least Small City level (Decapitated Royal Ripper with a single punch), up to Mountain level, possibly Mountain level+ (Grew much more powerful as he adapted during his fights with Rover, Gyoro Gyoro, Orochi and Darkshine. At his peak, he was starting to break his limiter and overpowered Darkshine)

 

[ByAsura]

Which is likely what KI did.

Ki swatted it away from the side. Garou shattered it from the back.

It's the sides.

I see the tip, but whatever.

You can't go by envirnmental damage because Tomboy >>> BS cell >>> regular A class > making a hole in a lamppost.

BS is probably the biggest glass cannon in OPM.

That's why I say that if DG only specializes in AP, it's normal he has every other stat as a weakness and the S class rating isn't suited for him in his whole, but only in one specific area, because he would normally lose to other characters due to speed or durability.

This is where I genuinely have to question you’re logic. Many characters are weaklings with technology or items that make them very destructive, and they’re pretty high up. What’s different for DG?

I am not arguing that. I am arguing the intention of the authors in that particular scene.

And I’m arguing that you’re so-called intentions aren’t correct.

Because they are glass cannons (Revolver, Stinger, Smile Man...).

Which has nothing to do with what I’m arguing. My point is that literally only the people with sharp weapons could actually harm him.

And in RR's case, as Tracer said, there's the possibility that his physiology changed due to being half monster. Even if he had that weakness (which I don't agree with) before, we can not know if he still has it when he woke up after nearly dying.

That’s seems made up to obfuscate the fact that Garou’s weakness is very consistent. You’re basically saying that he does have this weakness, but that it only applies to a Garou who evolved after being cut to ribbons.

I mean, it’s an indexing wiki after all, I see no harm in separating them. It’d be something like:

At least Small City level (Decapitated Royal Ripper with a single punch), up to Mountain level, possibly Mountain level+ (Grew much more powerful as he adapted during his fights with Rover, Gyoro Gyoro, Orochi and Darkshine. At his peak, he was starting to break his limiter and overpowered Darkshine)

That’s fine.

 

[LordTracer]

That’s fine.

So can that be applied?

 

[ImposingTiger]

BS is probably the biggest glass cannon in OPM.

Not when he is only one cell.

This is where I genuinely have to question you’re logic. Many characters are weaklings with technology or items that make them very destructive, and they’re pretty high up. What’s different for DG?

That's my point, he can have S class AP but he isn't ranked at that position because he lacks combat ability as a whole (speed, durability, hax... ).

And I’m arguing that you’re so-called intentions aren’t correct.

But you didn't adress that argument, you talked about a different point that had nothing to do with mine.

Which has nothing to do with what I’m arguing. My point is that literally only the people with sharp weapons could actually harm him.

You literally said that no hero could tank an attack from Garou, but could damage him. And I say it is because they are massive glass cannons. If AP is the only area where they can stand up to Garou but fail in every other area, it is only natural that they aren't S class heroes, but that doesn't prove Garou has that weakness, it just proves the heroes have that AP.

That’s seems made up to obfuscate the fact that Garou’s weakness is very consistent. You’re basically saying that he does have this weakness, but that it only applies to a Garou who evolved after being cut to ribbons.

No, I was making a hypothetical case in which you were right for Human Garou, to prove you wouldn't be able to say the same with RR Garou, which is the one that started this discussion.

 

[ByAsura]

Not when he is only one cell.

That's just not shown. In fact, an A-Class that he could supposedly defeat with ease (Spring Mustachio) was obliterating cells that could make Atomic Samurai bleed and rip apart Genos.

That's my point, he can have S class AP but he isn't ranked at that position because he lacks combat ability as a whole (speed, durability, hax... ).

My point is that these characters aren't really rated higher or lower than their actual ability to kill stuff. For example, Child Emperor, Gun Gun and Shooter.

But you didn't adress that argument, you talked about a different point that had nothing to do with mine.

I did address it. I said that even in this weakened state, Garou wasn't actually that vulnerable, which is substantiated by the fact that he's still harmed by sharpened weapons when he gains an amp that allows him to somewhat fight Genos.

You literally said that no hero could tank an attack from Garou, but could damage him.

What I said specifically was that they can only damage him with sharpened weapons. None of the physical attacks from far higher ranked heroes did any kind of damage in this chapter.

And I say it is because they are massive glass cannons. If AP is the only area where they can stand up to Garou but fail in every other area, it is only natural that they aren't S class heroes, but that doesn't prove Garou has that weakness, it just proves the heroes have that AP.

It's a bamboo spear, a sling, arrows (fired by a normal bow, not even a compound bow), and revolvers. Overall, only one of those can actually scale massively above their AP, and the one firing is mid-B-class due entirely to his revolvers.

Of course, each of these people are glass cannons to an extent, but it's the same thing as people engaging in a sword fight without armour or a shield.

Edit: Shooter couldn't even hurt Wildhorn. So, no, it doesn't appear that they're massive glass cannons.

No, I was making a hypothetical case in which you were right for Human Garou, to prove you wouldn't be able to say the same with RR Garou, which is the one that started this discussion.

And it's just not a very good hypothetical.

 

[ByAsura]

So can that be applied?

Sure.

 

[LordTracer]

Mkay, can you unlock Garou’s page so I can apply it?

 

[ByAsura]

I'll just do it, in that case.

 

[ByAsura]

Done. Can this be closed?

 

[LordTracer]

(Grew much more powerful as he adapted during his fights with Rover, Gyoro Gyoro, Orochi and Darkshine. At his peak, he was starting to break his limiter and could overpower Darkshine)

His “Mountain level, possibly Mountain level+/up to Large Mountain level” justification should’ve been changed to this.

 

[ByAsura]

We're making some revisions right now, so that might not be the best thing to do.

 

[LordTracer]

Well then, it can just be changed to that in the other thread.

 

[ByAsura]

Should I close this?

 

[LordTracer]

Sure.