Frog fights robot - Greninja vs Bartholomew Kuma

[Delusionaltx2]

Just wanna do a fun Pokémon match-up

Greninja vs Kuma

Both are 6C
The fight takes place in the Kalos League Finals Stadium (yes, it's raining just like the video however there isn't an audience but there is a commentator who's there for comedic relief)
Victory conditions are through the SBA
Speed equalized
The distance is about 30 meters

Px-0:
Frog:
Guts kills Greninja then talks with Kuma about the tragedies of life or smth idk(incon):

 

[koopa3144]

Both are 7-A

Magnezone doesn't have a 7-A rating is supposed to be 6-C like other fully evolved mons but it's profile is mad outdated.

If you wanna make a Pokemon matchup I'd recommend using one of the few up to date profiles.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

If you wanna make a Pokemon matchup I'd recommend using one of the few up to date profiles.

What are they?

 

[koopa3144]

What are they?

You can tell if their update by the formatting. If they look like this the profile is up to date.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

You can tell if their update by the formatting. If they look like this the profile is up to date.

yeah ik but i don't wanna look through the entire roster before deciding so just me some of the good ones

 

[koopa3144]

yeah ik but i don't wanna look through the entire roster before deciding so just me some of the good ones

Well, I’m on mobile rn but I’ll do my best to list them off the top of my head

Besides the two I linked before; Charaizard, Lucario, Greninja, Eevee, Ralts, and Abomasnow are up to date.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Well, I’m on mobile rn but I’ll do my best to list them off the top of my head

Besides the two I linked before; Charaizard, Lucario, Greninja, Eevee, Ralts, and Abomasnow are up to date.

alright then, gonna find a matchup

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Found one

 

[Arceus0x]

Juvia has an advantage over 2x in AP, but it seems that's all

Greninja can lower her attack with growl, paralyze with lick, poison with toxic spikes, use a smokescreen, set up stat buffs and use high stealth and afterimage creation, including substitute, to get into her blind spot and obliterate her with attacks like shadow sneak.
On the other hand, all of Juvia's attacks would do half damage due to being water.

Juvia's best advantage here is her intangibility and range and honestly, considering Greninja would go to near blitz territory with a single Quick attack, I gotta ask, how does the intangibility work?
Cause if its something she does constantly and keeps it up like a logia user then that's an issue.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Juvia has an advantage over 2x in AP, but it seems that's all

Greninja can lower her attack with growl, paralyze with lick, poison with toxic spikes, use a smokescreen, set up stat buffs and use high stealth and afterimage creation, including substitute, to get into her blind spot and obliterate her with attacks like shadow sneak.
On the other hand, all of Juvia's attacks would do half damage due to being water.

Juvia's best advantage here is her intangibility and range and honestly, considering Greninja would go to near blitz territory with a single Quick attack, I gotta ask, how does the intangibility work?
Cause if its something she does constantly and keeps it up like a logia user then that's an issue.

Gotta wait for more FT supporters but nice to see we're off to a strong start

 

[Arceus0x]

Gotta wait for more FT supporters but nice to see we're off to a strong start

I mean the outcome is simple.
1) Juvia's intagibility is constant and spammable in which case she probably stomps since Greninja would have no way to affect her
2) It isn't constant or spammable and Greninja manhandles her
3) Juvia has some insane stuff that isn't properly shown or shown at all in her profile that FT supporters will try to use to argue only to get shot down with "Make a CRT and add it".

 

[Delusionaltx2]

3) Juvia has some insane stuff that isn't properly shown or shown at all in her profile that FT supporters will try to use to argue only to get shot down with "Make a CRT and add it".

Def not how it feels to argue for Naruto at all

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I mean the outcome is simple.
1) Juvia's intagibility is constant and spammable in which case she probably stomps since Greninja would have no way to affect her

Also I could be wrong but don't most pokemon have NPI elemental intangibility?

 

[Arceus0x]

Also I could be wrong but don't most pokemon have NPI elemental intangibility?

ik they have NPI for ghosts but idk about elemental. Can't think of anyone properly made of liquid water (do not talk about Vaporeon, do not talk about Vaporeon, do no-)

 

[Zackra1799]

Juvia's intangibility is thought-based, and she almost always has it on; it's typically the first thing she does in a fight

 

[Arceus0x]

Well then, stomp it is. Greninja doesn't have anything to deal with intangibility. If he had ice type moves or electric type moves it'd be one thing but regrettably he does not.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Well then, stomp it is. Greninja doesn't have anything to deal with intangibility. If he had ice type moves or electric type moves it'd be one thing but regrettably

Dosen't he learn ice beam?

 

[Arceus0x]

Dosen't he learn ice beam?

I thought he did too but no, TMs only

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I thought he did too but no, TMs only

ah nvm then...

time to make another matchup then

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Fixed the matchup again...

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Bump

 

[Kachon123]

What is Greninja's wincon?

 

[Arceus0x]

What is Greninja's wincon?

Kuma doesn't have haki afaik, so he would fail to predict things and thus wouldn't be able to deal with Greninja's double-team shadow clones and substitute.
Greninja can also lower his physical attacks with growl (it would 100% work since it would work on Metagross who is more of a robot than Kuma).
Greninja also has his lick attack which would paralyze Kuma and cut his speed in half.
Idk if DF abilities would be weakened since Greninja uses water type attacks, that's up to you.

In short, Greninja can cut the AP advantage (Kuma scales to around 10 gigatons afaik so he'd get nerfed to ~5 after a growl).
Speed is equalized so combine a paralyze with quick attacking shadow clones and you've got a very disoriented Kuma.

Kuma has the advantage with his giant AOE bomb attack which would definitely be able to harm Greninja, although not KO it.
Kuma also has better LS but yet again it is unlikely he'd be able to grab someone as agile and tricky as Greninja.
Finally, Kuma has BFR but first he'd have to hit the opponent in the first place and second he doesn't do it in character since he only ever used it to separate the straw hats.

For now I hesitantly vote Greninja since I think his shadow clones + shadows sneaks + lick + quick attack + substitute should be able to overpower Kuma midhigh-diff

 

[Kachon123]

Kuma doesn't have haki afaik, so he would fail to predict things and thus wouldn't be able to deal with Greninja's double-team shadow clones and substitute.

Kuma does hace Haki. Regardless, his devil fruit and superior stats are enough to deal with them

Greninja can also lower his physical attacks with growl (it would 100% work since it would work on Metagross who is more of a robot than Kuma).

Haki can negate powers that reduce attack power. Kuma can also still use his devil fruit to the same effectiveness since its not dependent on his attack power.

Idk if DF abilities would be weakened since Greninja uses water type attacks, that's up to you.

Likely not. Kuma would just repel any water attacks when they come in contact with him.

In short, Greninja can cut the AP advantage (Kuma scales to around 10 gigatons afaik so he'd get nerfed to ~5 after a growl).

Kuma scales to 37.5 Gigatons.

Speed is equalized so combine a paralyze with quick attacking shadow clones and you've got a very disoriented Kuma.

Kuma's speed is still unchanged. He'll be teleporting with his devil fruit and spamming light speed danmaku from both dura neg pad cannons and dura neg lasers with large aoe explosions. His ursa shock is also too fast and large to dodge and would be dealing significant damage.

 

[Arceus0x]

Kuma scales to 37.5 Gigatons.

That's a 7.89x AP advantage. Pretty much 0.11x below the one-shot gap and that is for normal attacks I assume.

Don't even need to reply to everything else, this was a stomp from the get go.

OP genuienly sucks at making matchups.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Kuma does hace Haki

He never used it so it's considered fallacious to use this, as such, Haki is not on the profile.

Anyways, going with Greninja FRA.

 

[Kachon123]

He never used it so it's considered fallacious to use this

Sure...


His Vivre Card also states he's a user of both Haki types.

The confidence of you to speak on something so surely yet be so wrong...

Haki is not on the profile.

Greninja doesn't even have Growl on his profile.

 

[Arkansalter2]

Snip

you may have to update that

Greninja doesn't even have Growl on his profile.

They may have to update that.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Saying Kuma does not have Haki means you have not read One Piece

So my question is, why are you not reading One Piece?

 

[Arkansalter2]

Saying Kuma does not have Haki means you have not read One Piece

So my question is, why are you not reading One Piece?

One piece is not my verse to be fair.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

OP genuienly sucks at making matchups.

Not my fault pokemon matchups are weird

you either have a situation where Greninja wins extremely easily or a situation where greninja gets stomped fairly easily

 

[Arceus0x]

Saying Kuma does not have Haki means you have not read One Piece

So my question is, why are you not reading One Piece?

I've read One Piece but most Kuma appearances are pre-timeskip where you don't see anyone use haki properly outside of god tiers and post-timeskip he barely did anything besides getting tortured so...

 

[Arceus0x]

Not my fault pokemon matchups are weird

you either have a situation where Greninja wins extremely easily or a situation where greninja gets stomped fairly easily

no, that's just how matchups work. You look at the profile, analyze the stats, analyze the abilities and only then put them against each other. You've edited a matchup 3 times and every time it had a very silly explanation as to why it is a stopm (except the first one, idk about that) with Juvia having nigh-permament elemental invulnerability and Kuma being 8x above Greninja in AP.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

no, that's just how matchups work.

no? Fair matchups don't have a completely one sided victory

You look at the profile, analyze the stats, analyze the abilities and only then put them against each other. You've edited a matchup 3 times and every time it had a very silly explanation as to why it is a stopm (except the first one, idk about that) with Juvia having nigh-permament elemental invulnerability and Kuma being 8x above Greninja in AP.

nobody added an explanation as to how juvias elemental intangibility worked and greninja has statististics reduction that cuts this down to a 2x gap so i don't see the issue

 

[Arceus0x]

no? Fair matchups don't have a completely one sided victory

never said that, I said that's how matchups WORK, as in you first need to actually research the people you put against each other

nobody added an explanation as to how juvias elemental intangibility worked and greninja has statististics reduction that cuts this down to a 2x gap so i don't see the issue

technically fair but if you don't know how an ability works and it could turn the tides depending on one response then its better to choose someone else

 

[Delusionaltx2]

never said that, I said that's how matchups WORK, as in you first need to actually research the people you put against each other

You said that in response to me saying greninja either loses easily or wins pretty easily so...

technically fair but if you don't know how an ability works and it could turn the tides depending on one response then its better to choose someone else

Like who? (that isn't another pokemon ofc)

 

[Arceus0x]

Like who? (that isn't another pokemon ofc)

idk, its up to the one who makes the match to find it. Someone who is decently powerful, close in AP, doesn't have insta-kill moves, doesn't have insane speed boosts that can't be restricted, has enough power to hold their own against Greninja.