Frieza fourth form (DBS post training) Vs Superman (Post-Crisis)

[RadicalMrR]

1st form Frieza from ROF is much stronger than ssj3 Goku buu saga so this is a super stomp.

 

[Metabro]

Why DBZ vs DC/Superman threads are allowed at all on this sites still amazes me

In any case, Superman has speed feats in the [trillions of times FTL] and we know his DC is well into solar system level range due to harming characters more durable than him (like Doomsday for example). Meanwhile, people still seem to debate on exactly how powerful Frieza is pre-Golden Form, but usually agree on around large star level+ and some measure of FTL speed. Adding hax into the equation and Supes blitzes

 

[Jeune_fou]

Why DBZ vs DC/Superman threads are allowed at all on this sites still amazes me
In any case, Superman has speed feats in the [trillions of times FTL] and we know his DC is well into solar system level range due to harming characters more durable than him (like Doomsday for example). Meanwhile, people still seem to debate on exactly how powerful Frieza is pre-Golden Form, but usually agree on around large star level+ and some measure of FTL speed. Adding hax into the equation and Supes blitzes

First form frieza owned SSJ Gohan. So that makes him already at least large star level, but final form frieza is like 200 times more powerful, which makes him at least solar system level.

Also Doomsday (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Doomsday) is just as durable as superman (at least large star level), so I don't see why Superman should magically be considered solar system because of that.

 

[Metabro]

Gohan was also incredibly out of practice. He even admitted this himself. Proof that he's 200 times stronger? Because if you're using the Super Saiyan multipliers, that would make him 50 times stronger than base during the Namek Saga, which is what the Super Saiyan 1 increase was. If we say pre-Golden Form Frieza was as strong as SS3 in Super, that's a 400 times increase in power from base, or over 16.5 tenakilotons, less than a Foe. And that's using the OBD's calc; with the calc linked on Frieza's profile it would only be 680 tenatons, or large star level

And before you cite his fight with Goku after he had absorbed SSG's power into base form, Goku was holding back considerably to the point were Vegeta was getting upset at him for playing around. Frieza only found success in delivering sneak attacks on him after threatening his friends. We can't say pre-Golden Form Frieza is multi-galaxy level because of that

Lastly, that profile is in need of an update. Doomsday's durability at least scales to Superman's, who is well into solar system level due to the planet collision feat. Superman's punches can harm him, so you can see where this is going

 

[Strmi]

It shouldn't be added, since it's a stomp.
Anyways, we need to correct all those who claim Frost to be weaker than SPC.

Those who think Frost is weaker than SPC,it's because they saw that in Expert gamez video,where he says such nonsense

Link to the vid? I don't american/english youtubers very well. What did he say basically?


Did he say something like "Frost had problems against Piccolo, so since Frost won only by cheating, then he is weaker than Piccolo and so if he is weaker than Piccolo he is weaker than android 17. So Superman stomps"?

That's ridiculous if that's what he said ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uer5MJmFe0k or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0luw_j4FIc

 

[Jeune_fou]

Gohan was also incredibly out of practice. He even admitted this himself. Proof that he's 200 times stronger? Because if you're using the Super Saiyan multipliers, that would make him 50 times stronger than base during the Namek Saga, which is what the Super Saiyan 1 increase was. If we say pre-Golden Form Frieza was as strong as SS3 in Super, that's a 400 times increase in power from base, or over 16.5 tenakilotons, less than a Foe. And that's using the OBD's calc; with the calc linked on Frieza's profile it would only be 680 tenatons, or large star level
And before you cite his fight with Goku after he had absorbed SSG's power into base form, Goku was holding back considerably to the point were Vegeta was getting upset at him for playing around. Frieza only found success in delivering sneak attacks on him after threatening his friends. We can't say pre-Golden Form Frieza is multi-galaxy level because of that

Lastly, that profile is in need of an update. Doomsday's durability at least scales to Superman's, who is well into solar system level due to the planet collision feat. Superman's punches can harm him, so you can see where this is going

Which planet collision? The one screwattacks used in their first goku vs Superman?


That doesn't show he is solar system at all because the sun is ENORMOUS compared to planets and that's just a dwarf star!

but even if that's just a dwarf star, the sun = 99,86% of the whole mass in the solar system. + the sun can contain more than 1 million time planet earth. So this feat doesn't show he is solar system level at all.

My proof final form frieza is more than 200 times stronger than first form frieza (I was talking about Frieza form 1 and Frieza form 4) is simply the fact on namek his first form had a power level of 530 000 and his final form (100%) a power level of 120 000 000.

That makes final form frieza more than 226 times stronger than first form Frieza.

Yes gohan didn't train, but considering how Frieza owned SSJ Gohan in his first form, even if Gohan is weaker than SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta in buu saga, that still makes final form frieza easily 200 times stronger than SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta (buu saga). Which makes him a LOT stronger than the ones like even Buuhan or Super vegeto.

It is true it doesn't make him a galaxy buster. But that makes him a lot stronger than characters like SP cell, buuhan, super vegeto etc ... who are all solar system busters already. Which makes him at LEAST at solar system level.

 

[Jeune_fou]

It shouldn't be added, since it's a stomp.
Anyways, we need to correct all those who claim Frost to be weaker than SPC.

Those who think Frost is weaker than SPC,it's because they saw that in Expert gamez video,where he says such nonsense

Link to the vid? I don't american/english youtubers very well. What did he say basically?

Did he say something like "Frost had problems against Piccolo, so since Frost won only by cheating, then he is weaker than Piccolo and so if he is weaker than Piccolo he is weaker than android 17. So Superman stomps"?

That's ridiculous if that's what he said ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uer5MJmFe0k or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0luw_j4FIc

In the first vid he didn't give an argument, He just said he thought Frost had a similar power to cell. In the 2nd vid he said final form frieza should be equal to majin buu.

It's obvious he doesn't realize how strong goku's current base form is. Honnestly now base form Goku is superior to even Buuhan!

 

[Metabro]

"Which planet collision? The one screwattacks used in their first goku vs Superman?"

[This one]. To put it in perspective, that's over a kilofoe of energy, or enough to destroy the solar system over 178 times by the OBD's standards or over 45 times using this wiki's standards

"My proof final form frieza is more than 200 times stronger than first form frieza (I was talking about Frieza form 1 and Frieza form 4) is simply the fact on namek his first form had a power level of 530 000 and his final form (100%) a power level of 120 000 000.

That makes final form frieza more than 226 times stronger than first form Frieza."

This is the wrong way to go about it. Power level multipliers are completely faulty to use to determine stats like DC, strength, speed etc. They clearly do not scale linearly, or are you going to argue for planet level Farmer with a Shotgun?

Even my calculations are being generous for that same reason. Super Saiyan multipliers only apply to powerlevels too, not stats. I was using them because some people actually do take those multipliers seriously. The fact is that we don't really know how much stronger Final Form Frieza is than First Form, as it was never stated. All we know is just that it's "much stronger," but even if you were three times stronger than someone it would be the same difference in strength between an adult man and a 7 year old child. In other words, more than enough for a stomp

"Yes gohan didn't train, but considering how Frieza owned SSJ Gohan in his first form, even if Gohan is weaker than SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta in buu saga, that still makes final form frieza easily 200 times stronger than SSJ Goku or SSJ Vegeta (buu saga). Which makes him a LOT stronger than the ones like even Buuhan or Super vegeto."

Still basing your argument on faulty powerlevel reasoning. Gohan can barely turn into a Super Saiyan 1. That's enough of an indication of how much weaker he's gotten

"It is true it doesn't make him a galaxy buster. But that makes him a lot stronger than characters like SP cell, buuhan, super vegeto etc ... who are all solar system busters already. Which makes him at LEAST at solar system level"

And the only reasons they're so high is because of Cell's boast, which puts him at baseline solar system level at best. How much stronger later characters become relies entirely on assumption, not facts or feats. Nothing that would clearly place them beyon a reasonable doubt above Superman's planet collision feat, which isn't even his best feat

 

[Jeune_fou]

"Which planet collision? The one screwattacks used in their first goku vs Superman?"
[This one]. To put it in perspective, that's over a kilofoe of energy, or enough to destroy the solar system over 178 times by the OBD's standards or

I didn't know New genesis and Apokolips were that big.

 

[Metabro]

I've heard they can be even bigger. Like the size of galaxies. But yea, I'm VERY safe with just going by this calc instead lol

 

[Jeune_fou]

Ah one thing: power level is increasing speed as well. http://c.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/21-055.0/compressed/kdragon_ball_z_v005-128.jpg


Also, 50% final form frieza had the same power than kaioken 20 Goku. SSJ multiplies power level by 50. So it's 2.5 stronger than kaioken 20.

Frieza 100% was slightly weaker and slower than SSJ Goku which shows SSJ multiplies speed. Maybe not by 50 but at LEAST by 40 since he was slightly faster than Frieza.

 

[Metabro]

I'm not arguing that an increase in power level doesn't correlate to an increase in stats. Of course they do. It's just that they do not scale linearly, which is why using them in calcs like that is problematic

 

[Jeune_fou]

I'm not arguing that an increase in power level doesn't correlate to an increase in stats. Of course they do. It's just that they do not scale linearly, which is why using them in calcs like that is problematic

It is true it is not linear. But we know stats of transformed super saiyans are generally quite balanced because they'd have a deficit in one specific stat against most of their opponents otherwise.

The only time we saw they had such a deficit was when Super Trunks fought perfect cell. He was a lot slower than Cell and couldn't touch him, because that form was said to give an enormous strenght but was also making the transformed person slower.

Ah also, we know they evolved between cell and buu because SSJ Goku was confident Dabra was not a menace for him as SSJ while the same Goku stated he had the same level than perfect cell.

So basically, buu saga Goku could beat perfect cell without using SSJ2 while he was unable to defeat Cell during the cell games.

Also, "fat buu" was able to one shot Dabra (so basically it's as if he could one shot Cell) so that proves they evolved between cell and buu, SSJ 3 is 4 times stronger than SSJ 2. However, there's not feat that shows they're above solar system indeed.

I have a question: where's the "board" that shows the amount of energy required to destroy planets, stars, solar systems, galaxies etc ... also is there a board that describes mass of solar systems, galaxies etc ...

I ask that because the calc you showed me with the collision was indeed impressive, and Apokolips/new genesis were said to be more than 60 000 times bigger than planet earth.

But someone told me " i know a lot of great VS debtors who quantify that at mulitversal, including members of the death battle research team, and creators of power crunch and fatal fiction"

I don't believe him. In another message he said "this was calculated to be more than a dozen times the estimated combined mass of our universe"

I can't believe him because it's totally impossible planets that are even over 60 000 times bigger than earth can be heavier than the 240 billions of stars we have in the milky way.

 

[PATRICKLUKE1]

SSJG became goku's new base form. So Freeza 4th form should be on that level. Freeza wins

 

[SunWukong1986]

I think Superman win because no matter how strong the opponent superman always wi

I think you might be overestimating Superman and underestimating his opponent. Have you compared their statistics before stating what you're saying?

 

[Jeune_fou]

Talking about underestimating the opponent and overestimating Superman. That reminds me there's someone I know who's like "Post crisis Superman can still beat goku (SSB and kaioken)".

He then showed me this pic: http://imgur.com/a/voGE9

He then added "The missiles were going to pass entire universes and yet Superman outsped them".

Then he said "So he's at least High Quintillions, possibly Low Sextillions Times the Speed of Light"

He then said "Superman can turn intangible, plus he has a soul destroying hax which ignores durability": http://imgur.com/6Z7gdYG


So he concluded: "He's faster and he can just hax him with his Soul-Nullifying scream

Goku does have more DC/Durability but it's kinda irrelevant".


He's he wanking Superman? Because that missile feat heavily contradicts his other speed feats (such as the time he came to Pluto or the time he came on Mars). Not to mention it's just travel speed, not fighting speed.

Also this "soul destrying feat" is not that impressive because he used a scream to perform it, which means it normally shouldn't be faster than the speed of sound (which is probably one of the reson he didn't use it again: his other foes could dodge it).

Also he showed me that: http://imgur.com/IQ9vqFr

And said it showed post crisis Superman was low galaxy level, though I have no idea why (I'm not a comics expert, so I only know main characters).

 

[CallMeFrost]

frieza stomps.he could fight against saiyan beyond god goku who is equal to SSG(a multi-galaxy buster),he should have no problem against post crisis superman, who is only large star level

 

[RadicalMrR]

Can I ask a admin to add this to Frieza's wins, I mean it's pretty one sided

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No, for the reason you stated. It's one-sided if they're right. If he is <=SJBG Goku, he's much faster or stronger. It's spite.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

i just hope peopele dont think bae goku = ssjg goku lol


base goku is unknown tier, at least 4-B i'd say

goku doest use god ki untill going ssgss in rof saga and onwards

 

[Antoniofer]

I don't known why people think that base Goku>=SSG Goku, he should be 4-B. And this match isn't necesary one-sided, also, the Frieza speed still unknown too

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I know that. That still makes him stronger by a lot. I doubt that he's in tier 3 at base. And he still has similar, if not greater speed. I'm arguing on the fact that this shouldn't be added, and likely closed.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Goku reached his best in the Beerus fight after he absorbed the SSG Ki and Frieza is stronger than that.

 

[PATRICKLUKE1]

http://*******************.eu/watch/dragon-ball-super-episode-13-english-subbed/

Around 19:30 minutes in it's clearly stated that the ssjg power has become his own. So I don't see why people say it's so farfetched that Goku=ssjg goku. Just because he has no god ki doesn't mean he isn't on that level. Especially after recieving whis's training.

 

[Jeune_fou]

frieza stomps.he could fight against saiyan beyond god goku who is equal to SSG(a multi-galaxy buster),he should have no problem against post crisis superman, who is only large star level

That's also what I think, but that person really insists and say Superman can one shot goku using his soul destroying power (but strangely he only used it once and besides he is using a scream to do it so that makes me think it's "slow" ("only" around the speed of sound)).

He said Goku's durability and AP are better, but he said Superman's speed is nearly limitless because he was faster than missiles that were about to destroy the multiverse, so base on what he said, missiles needed to travel whole universes. Still based on what he said, since missiles were fast enough to cross whole universes, Superman's speed is nearly limitless (because he managed to catch them).

but there are multiple problems with that:

1) why would the missiles need to cross whole universes? That makes no sense. They can explode anywhere that doesn't matter.

2) Superman being able to cross whole universes heavily contradicts all his other feats such as the time he flew to Pluto and the time he flew to Mars.


He is most likely a superman wanker because I'm gonna show you whati s post crisis superman for him. For him, Superman post crisis had the following powers:


Durability: multiverse level (survived a collision between Apokolips and New Genesis (according to him their mass were equal to more than dozens of time the mass of the whole mass of our universe (WTF?)).

Attack Potency: multiverse level (managed to hurt other kryptonians who also have multiverse durability).

Speed: Nearly infinite (was able to intercept missiles that were about to destroy the multiverse)


To debunk that I showed him a calc that said Apokolips and New Genesis were 60 000 times bigger than earth. I then told him there was no way even those two planets could be heavier than even just the milky way (since it contains more than 200 billions of stars). So those planets don't have the mass of "dozens of universes" as he said since they're far to have even the milky way's mass. So I said Superman's durability couldn't be more than solar system, and yet I was very nice because:

The only thing we have to indicate Apokolips and New Genesis are giant planets is an indication that says "the earth would barely displays the water of a small lake" (on neo genesis). That indication is questionable as an evidence in the first place because it comes from a pre crisis comics wich means it's not "canon" in post crisis. So there's no precise indication that shows Apokolips or New Genesis are 60 000 times bigger than earth.


So yeah, he pretty much doesn't accept the fact Goku even in his base form is stronger than post crisis superman (Goku's base form is so strong he most likely can solo strongest characters from buu saga (Super Vegeto, Buuhan, Ultimate Gohan, Gotenks SSJ3 etc ...))


he then tried to lie to me, saying post crisis Superman can go to the center of the big bang (which is false because it's a pre crisis superman feat). I told him it was pre crisis. Then he showed me this scan and said Superman was low galaxy level: http://imgur.com/IQ9vqFr

Though I have no idea what it's supposed to show ... he then said Goku's AP/durability was not a problem for Superman because of the nearly infinite speed + soul destroying hax (btw: as I said that sould destroying hax is NOT more than sound speed due to the fact it's produced by a scream).

What do you think of all that?

 

[Beerus1000]

I'll have to go with superman but if its golden frieza then frieza stomps

 

[Jeune_fou]

I'll have to go with superman but if its golden frieza then frieza stomps

You do realize Post crisis is "only" star level just like Perfect cell for example?

We're not talking about namek frieza but RoF frieza atfer 4 months of training. That Frieza is so strong he is already at least star level in his FIRST form since he totally owned SSJ Gohan. His final form is easily solar system level.