Final Fantasy Gilgamesh and After Years upgrade

[XXKINGXX69]

Necrophobe can canonically survive hits from the endgame cast since he has dialogue after you deal enough damage. Gilgamesh stepped in, and Necrophobe attempted to kill him. Gilgamesh is scripted to survive hits from him, and isn't knocked out, and Gilgamesh survives multiple of them. Gilgamesh felt the need to self destruct to kill Necrophobe so he was confident Bartz's party couldn't beat him without help, even though Necrophobe's barrier was out.

And right after this, they beat Neo Exdeath. I think its odd to say the party just jumped from 2-C to 2-A in 1 fight. Necrophobe > Gilgamesh > (or at least comparable to) Bartz's party > Neo Exdeath. 8 arms Gilgamesh should be 2-A, supported by the fact that Gilgamesh later on scales to the Warrior of Light.


The After Years cast can defeat Omega and Shinryu, I have no idea why they aren't 2-A either

 

[XXKINGXX69]

bump

 

[Shmooply]

Dangerously based.
Following.

 

[Shiraito983]

Following

 

[Theglassman12]

6 armed gilgamesh I'm fine with him reaching 2-A, I do not agree with After Years scaling completely to 2-A when Shinryu was literally testing them, so we wasn't even trying and the characters were questioning how they're still alive given his power level, and shinryu and omega are consistently just heavily implied to be on the same level.

 

[ZetaMarishi]

Gilgamesh seems fine, and it's been honestly bugging me that 6-Armed Gilgamesh was 2-C when he was a relevant threat to a party that could fight Exdeath/Neo Exdeath.

I'm neutral on After Years scaling, tbh.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Gilgamesh scaling I suppose is fine, but Shinryu appears to be holding back in After Years.

 

[TartaChocholate]

The After Years party would still scale to 2-A from fighting Gilgamesh, though, correct? Shinryu and Omega would simply be far higher in the tier.

If the party fought the Necrophobe and immediately after they went for Neo-Exdeath with not power ups and such, then yeah, Necrophobe and Gil 2-A pretty clear cut, IMO.

And by extension everyone that has encountered Gilgamesh at some point.

Lol, Gil be like:

 

[Theglassman12]

@TartaChocholate they scale to 2-C from Base Gilgamesh and the FF3 monsters. Only 6 armed gil would be 2-A which the after years cast don’t fight

 

[TartaChocholate]

Agh right, it's base Gil the one that shows up in in FFIV and FFVI. His multi armed forms appear in the 3D titles.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

6 armed gilgamesh I'm fine with him reaching 2-A, I do not agree with After Years scaling completely to 2-A when Shinryu was literally testing them, so we wasn't even trying and the characters were questioning how they're still alive given his power level, and shinryu and omega are consistently just heavily implied to be on the same level.

Gilgamesh scaling I suppose is fine, but Shinryu appears to be holding back in After Years.

I think them questioning how they even beat Shinryu but not Omega implies that Shinryu in After Years is now a lot stronger than Omega. The Shinryu from FFV appeared in Dissidia NT and he did more damage to the cast members including ones stronger than Omega than almost anything else in previous cutscenes of that game, proving that its possible for Shinryu to be stronger than Omega in some games after FFV for him. Because of this, I doubt Omega was holding back and I think Omega scaling is still valid

 

[Theglassman12]

Pretty sure that’s a completely different power level of Shinryu than the one that is in after years. And again the fact Shinryu was testing them doesn’t make 2-A solid, hence why I didn’t bother arguing for 2-A after years in the first place. 2-C is more consistent since they killed the FF3 dark fiends easily plus going against base Gilgamesh.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Pretty sure that’s a completely different power level of Shinryu than the one that is in after years. And again the fact Shinryu was testing them doesn’t make 2-A solid, hence why I didn’t bother arguing for 2-A after years in the first place. 2-C is more consistent since they killed the FF3 dark fiends easily plus going against base Gilgamesh.

Im using that to say its possible for Shinryu to just be stronger than Omega in some games, and I'm using Omega for 2-A not Shinryu

 

[Theglassman12]

Yeah but that's dissidia, which has a different key in his own page so it's not really comparable here. Shinryu and Omega are comparable to each other in these games, they're always treated as equals where both have the same statements of the sealed weapons doing nothing or being one of the two choices to fight against in FF1 and so on.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Yeah but that's dissidia, which has a different key in his own page so it's not really comparable here. Shinryu and Omega are comparable to each other in these games, they're always treated as equals where both have the same statements of the sealed weapons doing nothing or being one of the two choices to fight against in FF1 and so on.

How does that make them equal? Both having the same feat doesn't mean Shinryu can't be stronger than Omega

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The statement by Edge also just implies Shinryu is stronger than anyone else, which includes Omega

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Yeah but that's dissidia, which has a different key in his own page so it's not really comparable here. Shinryu and Omega are comparable to each other in these games, they're always treated as equals where both have the same statements of the sealed weapons doing nothing or being one of the two choices to fight against in FF1 and so on.

Gilgamesh scaling I suppose is fine, but Shinryu appears to be holding back in After Years.

The After Years party would still scale to 2-A from fighting Gilgamesh, though, correct? Shinryu and Omega would simply be far higher in the tier.

If the party fought the Necrophobe and immediately after they went for Neo-Exdeath with not power ups and such, then yeah, Necrophobe and Gil 2-A pretty clear cut, IMO.

And by extension everyone that has encountered Gilgamesh at some point.

Lol, Gil be like:

Is it ok if I apply the changes for Gilgamesh? Characters who scale would be the FF12 cast, Griever and possibly Eden

 

[Theglassman12]

Except that there's little to no reason especially in 5 that Omega is weaker than Shinryu, especially when they're both treated as equal threats, even against the sealed weapons. Gilgamesh is fine with the upgrades, but leave the FF8 pages for now since I'd rather get the full context for the game before jumping the gun on upgrading them.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Except that there's little to no reason especially in 5 that Omega is weaker than Shinryu, especially when they're both treated as equal threats, even against the sealed weapons. Gilgamesh is fine with the upgrades, but leave the FF8 pages for now since I'd rather get the full context for the game before jumping the gun on upgrading them.

Who said anything about FF5? I'm talking about After Years here.

You can make a CRT once you're done with FF8 then

 

[TartaChocholate]

Well, for what's worth Gilgamesh openly mention Bartz in his first appearance in VIII in the Japanese version during the Seifer fight.

So, this would mean the Ivalician scaling is actually to 2-A instead of 2-C, correct?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Well, for what's worth Gilgamesh openly mention Bartz in his first appearance in VIII in the Japanese version during the Seifer fight.

So, this would mean the Ivalician scaling is actually to 2-A instead of 2-C, correct?

Yes. Probably the fiends from FF1 too

 

[TartaChocholate]

Yes. Probably the fiends from FF1 too

Alrighto, okay... Say, when does Exdeath (anyone works, really) says the most explicitely that he has the power of the Void? Additionally, where would be the best statement or proof that the Void holds the multiverse? I need to update the scaling blog, so I'll need to add the gifs for this.

 

[Theglassman12]

Around the end of 5 is when he says it,

@XXKINGXX69 they’re hardly that different in between 5 and after years.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Around the end of 5 is when he says it,

@XXKINGXX69 they’re hardly that different in between 5 and after years.

Why would they be the exact same? Do you think they can't be different because they have similar spells and look the same?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Alrighto, okay... Say, when does Exdeath (anyone works, really) says the most explicitely that he has the power of the Void? Additionally, where would be the best statement or proof that the Void holds the multiverse? I need to update the scaling blog, so I'll need to add the gifs for this.

FF1 Fiends > Garland > Gilgamesh > Exdeath (Dissidia) > Neo Exdeath

 

[Theglassman12]

You do realize that them being the exact same incarnation is the entire crux of your argument for 2-A After Years right? Either they aren’t the same version which calls 2-A into question for after years even moreso, or they are the same which still makes 2-A not solid because they were terrified of Shinryu when he was holding back.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

You do realize that them being the exact same incarnation is the entire crux of your argument for 2-A After Years right? Either they aren’t the same version which calls 2-A into question for after years even moreso, or they are the same which still makes 2-A not solid because they were terrified of Shinryu when he was holding back.

They can be the same incarnations of Omega and Shinryu, but stronger than in FFV. Prove that omega and shinryu are equal in FFV

 

[Theglassman12]

Literally they both have the same statements of the 12 sealed weapons not doing shit to them, that heavily implies they’re equal, none of this again proves 2-A after years at all when shinryu’s a massive anti feat.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Literally they both have the same statements of the 12 sealed weapons not doing shit to them, that heavily implies they’re equal, none of this again proves 2-A after years at all when shinryu’s a massive anti feat.

That's not heavily implying they have to be equal. If both can no sell the 12 weapons, it doesn't mean Shinryu can't be a lot stronger than Omega. How is shinryu an anti feat? Its possible to be 2-A but lose to a stronger 2-A

 

[Theglassman12]

Because there's never been any statements that implies they're NOT comparable at all, especially when they're treated as equal threats by the library in 5. If you can't prove they're not in the same level then 2-A After years isn't going through.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Because there's never been any statements that implies they're NOT comparable at all, especially when they're treated as equal threats by the library in 5. If you can't prove they're not in the same level then 2-A After years isn't going through.

Both of them being impervious to the 12 weapons doesn't mean they have to be equal

 

[Theglassman12]

Not really an argument here, if you’re only gonna rely on theoreticals with no scans then you’re not gonna get anywhere here.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Not really an argument here, if you’re only gonna rely on theoreticals with no scans then you’re not gonna get anywhere here.

Whatver, I fou d better 2-A stuff for the after years cast so this can be closed, I'll apply the gilgamesh change

 

[TartaChocholate]

I do have a final question, was checking Exdeath's profile and the in the AP justifications for 2-A there are two images used to explain that the FF universe has infinite worlds. This is the first one, which game is this from? And the second is a broken link, do you guys remember what it was?

 

[Shmooply]

This is the first one, which game is this from?

Appears to be from the remaster of Final Fantasy III.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Appears to be from the remaster of Final Fantasy III.

Nuh-huh. I actually played the 3D remake of III not so long ago and the most they mention are the worlds of light and darkness. Not to mention they didn't use portraits of the characters in the dialogue boxes.

 

[TartaChocholate]

I think I found it, it's FF Chronicles Ring of Fates

 

[Shmooply]

I think I found it, it's FF Chronicles Ring of Fates

Aye.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Alright only the missing image left.

 

[Theglassman12]

I think the second one was from crystal chronicles, but there’s a Dissidia statement of infinite universes existing so that should be added there.