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Fallout Downgrades

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Qawsedf234

Qawsedf234

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Okay there's some rather large issues I've noticed in regards to our Fallout pages

  • The mini-nuke is given a 8-B rating with no backing at all. There's no feats to support this rating and there's no calc backing this rating from what I gathered with a search. In order for the mini-nuke to be 8-B it would need an explosive radius of 62.5 meters which isn't supported at all in-game.
  • The 8-B tri-beam laser calc has some issues. The robo-scorpion can canonically be beaten in multiple different ways, this feat is magnitudes better than everything else, and it could very well just be a gameplay mechanic. It seems like a game-play induced outlier
My suggested downgrades are the following

  • Liberty Prime has his 8-A removed and just sticks with his High 8-C rating
  • Everyone with a 8-B rating is downgraded to 8-C or High 8-C and besides the Behemoth have their durability similarly reduced
  • The profiles in general need more work. For some reason the Classic Series, the new series, and Fallout 4 are separated into different keys despite them canonically have no changes nor better feats.
 
The Mini Nuke is the more "Canon" way to defeat a Behemoth. This is shown in Fallout 3 when the game basically gives you one in front off GNR to use against the Behemoth that attacks, In the Capital Building one of the Talon Company Mercs is using one against a Behemoth, lastly the other one in the downtown DC area there is a button on top of a truck that you can use that calls missiles to rain down on the Behemoth.

Tho you can defeat them normally, The game suggests Fat Man and other Heavy Artillery are the more commen weapon to use against them so whatever the Behemoth's durability is, the Fat Man (Mini Nukes) Attack Potency scales.

I can't really give input on the Tri Laser.

I agree with the Power Armor stuff unless some feats or statments are discovered. However it doesn't say she fell only 100 feet, just that she feel.

I'm not knowledgeable about the older Fallout games so I can't give thoughts on what's "Canon".
 
First off thanks for commenting

The Mini Nuke is the more "Canon" way to defeat a Behemoth.

I understand the Behemoth scaling to the mini-nuke. There's enough evidence in game and in-lore suggesting that they won't die to one hit from it. My issue is that there's no calc for the mini-nuke nor any lore statement that would support a 8-B rating. In other words they're 8-B based on a unsubstantiated claim

However it doesn't say she fell only 100 feet, just that she feel.

Here's her lines with some highlights

I was fighting with the Brotherhood in the Capital Wasteland. Worked at a staging area for the Power Armor troops. Our position was along a ridgeline overlooking the battlefield. I'd say it was a hundred foot drop, give or take.

To make a long story short, the ridge I was standing o took a hit from a nuke. Sheered most of the cliff right off and caused the platform I was standing on to tumble over the side. If I hadn't have been test-piloting one of the Power Armor suits at the time, I would have died.

She was on the ridge that was 100 feet off the ground, fell from this height, and had her legs permanently crippled from this fall

I'm not knowledgeable about the older Fallout games so I can't give thoughts on what's "Canon".

Current canon is basically new stuff > old stuff if they contradict. But all lore evidence suggests that there was no power armor change or upgrade in-universe, just that the game got a graphical overhaul.
 
Which profiles are you talking about on the last point? As for Liberty Prime's nukes here are the one's he uses if it justifies his ranking with them. https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Mark_28 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B28_nuclear_bomb. They appear to be anywhere from 70 kilotons to 1.45 megatons, 8-A requires 100 tons to 1 kiloton. He actually qualifies for High 7-C to Low 7-B

 
The issue is the following

  • Liberty Primes nukes are demonstrably much lower than 8-A let alone High 7-C
Which profiles are you talking about on the last point?

Profiles such as the Enclave soldiers for example.
 
I edited in the link about 30~ seconds after I posted the comment.
 
Ah ok, could you please explain how being in the 200-750 KT is a downgrade from the 70-350 KT range the actual real life versions had?
 
Anttron224 said:
Ah ok, could you please explain how being in the 200-750 KT is a downgrade from the 70-350 KT range the actual real life versions had?
Click to expand...
This is also assuming that LP doesn't use the 1.1 to 1.45 megaton nukes.
 
Because it excludes the two higher numbers and reduces the likely hood of them being as powerful as their IRL versions. As evidence by Prime using them without worrying about friendly fire, the explosions in game being far to small to warrent a KT rating, and deciding to use his eye lasers to dig through 5 meters of ground rather than just nuking it.
 
I think this is more of a Bethesda being inconsistent with their logic situation than LP being high balled. Also, if mini nukes are being downgraded to 8-C then LP's bombs have to at least be 8-B because they're larger and more potent than mininukes.
 
Why would they be 8-B? They have no feats to indicate that level of power and their in-game explosion sizes aren't big enough to warrant the rating.
 
This is their explict in-universe power statement

Ingram: Prime has two weapon systems: his eye laser and his nuke pack. The eye laser can target a hostile from hundreds of yards out and take it down with pinpoint accuracy. His nukes are modified Mark 28 Nuclear Bombs. They used to drop the things from bombers during the war. Just one of the nukes is equivalent to about three or four Fat Man shells.

They're 3-4x a mini-nuke. I don't know if that's enough to warrant a 8-B rating.
 
Guess we need a proper calc for mininukes then, I say leave LP alone for now and wait till we can properly scale his bombs.
 
I think editing the Enclave page is completely justified, as it has nothing really backing up that the power armors are seperate feat wise. Although they should scale to Deathclaws so the "Fo4" rating should be the one they go with.
 
Yeah that's what I mean. For some reason there's a separation despite the armor featured in Fallout 4 being the canonical inferior version of the APA Mark I.
 
I feel like whoever made these pages originally just used headcanon and guesstimates for the statistics, because they are largely inconsistent with a lot of what is stated and shown in the games.
 
There's some weird stuff like Liberty Prime being rated High 8-C despite casually obliterating a Behemoth who's rated 8-B at the moment. The profiles need a large overhaul.
 
So this is how I'm seeing it so far

Behemoths are 8-C

Mini Nukes based on in game radius is 8-C

Liberty Prime is High 8-C, possibly 8-B with Nukes and Laser

Power Armor is 9-B to 9-A
 
Lets say that a mini-nuke has an explosive radius of 20 meters.

  • Y = ((x/0.28)^3)
  • Y is in kilotons, x is radius in kilometers.
  • Y = ((0.02/0.28)^3)
  • Y = (0.07142857142857142857142857142857)^3
  • Y = 0.00036443148 KT or 364.43 kilograms of TNT (we don't need to divide by 2 since its a nuclear based explosion)
That means a mini-nuke (using the above forumla) generates 1,524,781,312.32 joules of energy which is 8-C.

Now taking 1,524,781,312.32 and multiplying to by 3 or 4 we get: 4,574,343,936.96 joules or 6,099,125,249.28 joules. Which is also 8-C

So Liberty Prime would be downgraded to 8-C as well. Just at a much higher state of 8-C
 
No. Even with the 3-4x multiplier Prime would be 8-C with his strongest attack. He'll be downgraded with everyone else to 8-C. The main difference is that he'll be "At least 8-C" since he can easily destroy other 8-C.
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
  • Everyone with a 8-B rating is downgraded to 9-A or 8-C
  • Liberty Prime becomes "At least 8-C"
  • Power Armor becomes "Varies. 9-B to 9-A" or something like that
  • The tri-beam laser is considered a game play enduced outlier
  • Only the Behemoths and Liberty Prime will have 8-C durability
  • The profiles will no longer be split by game generations since they're the same lore wise
 
Okay. That should probably be fine.
 
I'll start working on updating all of the profiles then.
 
Wait hold on, I think we need way more agreement before downgrading the verse. Only two people have agreed and the person hasn't even responded here. I don't have an opinion on the downgrades but literally this thread has been "I want to downgrade the verse who agrees" "I do" "ok downgrading them". I think you should wait longer than a day before going through with it.
 
This was rather quick. But what's there to argue for keeping the old ratings? There's nothing supporting anything being 8-B, 8-A, and Power Armor has zero evidence placing it above 9-A lore wise.
 
I mean, did you contact Mr.Bambu about it so he could talk about his calc. I mean it could be an outlier but I don't think a downgrade like this should just be three people, one of those three being the op downgrading it and the one of the others being in the thread for 1 comment.
 
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