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This is an issue I've been meaning to tackle since the beginning of the year, but up to now, I wanted to accumulate way more material so I could better argue about it, but not only progress would be extremely slow if I did so, but the issues need to be adressed now, and even a non-perfect solution is better than none. As an addendum, I must say: This is far from ideal, but I will use the Fifth Sea, Sunless Sea, Sunless Skies and Fallen London wikis, as they are extremely well-sourced and I can confirm to its absolute veracity.
The pages are all mostly wrong, lacking in information, not giving adequate context or otherwise having a questionable reasoning. They are all also lacking in sources to cite from where feats come from and, many of the feats that are cited, are interpreted on a very particular way that is far from being clear or the only interpretation available.
First of all, general problems:
The pages are all mostly wrong, lacking in information, not giving adequate context or otherwise having a questionable reasoning. They are all also lacking in sources to cite from where feats come from and, many of the feats that are cited, are interpreted on a very particular way that is far from being clear or the only interpretation available.
First of all, general problems:
- The pages are all lacking in feats, and whenever a feat is cited, there is absolutely no scans for it.
- Many of the pages, particularly the Quiet Deviless, cite a lot of unnecessary lore that is not only spoilerific (something that is heavily frowned upon the FL fandom) but also really, really not needed for their profiles. Case in point being the Quiet Deviless: She has nothing to do with the past of the devils in particular. Accepting that kind of information would absolutely clutter most profiles as normal beings of any species would have their entire species' backstory copied and pasted onto the summary.
- Many of the powers and wrongly attributed or, really, are flat out wrong. High-Godly regeneration for surviving without the concept of death on Lady Black, for example.
- Intelligence is also wrongly attributed. All of them are classified as geniuses with the feats described therein not even fitting in that regard.
- Salt: Okay, I really don't get this. First off, the page picture isn't even Salt. It is the Halved's eye. I guess they interpreted it as Salt's as he is called the Sun-Beneath-the-Sea, but in Sunless Skies (and in the Zubmariner DLC) it is made extremely clear that it is the Halved's. Incorporeality on his case is correct, but the justification is flawed: The Gods of the Unterzee are not inherently incorporeal. Case in point, Stone isn't. Also, Salt doesn't control the currents of time of the universe. In fact, I'll come to that on the Judgements' page analysis, but to keep it short: Salt, at most, controls time in the Neath. And even then, I wouldn't think of it as absolute control.
- Lady Black: I'd love to see where is it said that she personifies death, because I have gone through every single citation of her in the Sunless Sea wiki, which transcribes all events, and there is no such a thing as that. There is an undeniable link between her and death in the deep unterzee, but she doesn't personify death. Also, I have no idea on what statement is her supposed might based on. She has no feats that put her on the level of anything like a Judgement. I don't recall any feat of hers that she resists having her past, present and future rewritten, nor of surviving without the concept of death. In fact, I don't remember her scaling to anyone that might have such powers.
- Stone: Her page is fine. I mean, it has problems, but it is mostly the general problems and messed up scaling. One thing though, Salt never attempted to erase Stone. She probably scales to a point that she wouldn't be erased by him, but the justification is wrong.
- The Quiet Deviless: This one is completely wrong. Possibly even more than Lady Black's page or Salt's page. No devil, no matter if it is a Grand Devil or a minor one, can scale to a Judgement. Heck, I doubt that even their technology could match with a Judgement. The absolute mightiest devil we've met so far in the series, the Unrepentant Devil, is absolutely no match for a Judgement and has statements that are, at max, Tier 7 stuff. But it is worse than that: The Quiet Deviless is a random devil. I have no idea where the idea of her being oneof the strongest ones came from, but from what I've seen in both the storyline with her and by searching around the wiki, plus the Feast of the Exceptional Rose, she is just an average devil. These are Tier 9. Almost all of her powers are wrong too. She isn't even page-worthy, if we make a page about devils, it will cover everything she can do.
- The Dawn Machine: Again, Salt has never attempted to erase the Dawn Machine, Stone or anyone else. The Dawn Machine can possibly resist it, but the justification is wrong. And, in fact, this is a worse case than Stone: The Dawn Machine is a failed Judgement. Not even its bigger, apparently more successful counterpart, the Clockwork Sun, can be safely said to be on the level of a normal Judgement, the Dawn Machine even less so. There is a lot of theorizing or unfounded claims in the profile as well, such as it being unexplained why it has never attempted to destroy Salt, that Stone resides outside the currents of time, or that the device's destruction would result in the universe's destruction. Also, I'm confused by its supposed Resistance to Technological Manipulation. I mean, in SSkies you can actively sabotage it by just ripping some gears out.
- Judgements: So, first of all, I disagree that this should be a civilization. The Judgements do not form civilizations, just small groups, and even then, they mostly do things individually. In fact, it is more accurate to give each Judgement their own civilization than otherwise, just so you can get an idea of how individualistic they really are. Onto individual things, however, I disagree with the number, as we don't know how many Judgements are out there; I disagree with the military prowess, as one of the most eminent Judgements in-universe is the King-Who-Wars who, guess what, warred. Their powers are mostly fine but really lacking in sources and scans. Oh, and that supposed "weakness" of theirs isn't a weakness really, it is just that they are killing each other. A real weakness would be darkness. Something that can hide itself from its light can resist its influence.
- The British Empire: It is almost as wrong as the Quiet Deviless. There are absolutely no sources when there should be plenty to justify anything, the profile takes into account a jumble of SSea/FL-era British Empire with SSkies-era British Empire, which is far more advanced. SSea-era British Empire can't, in fact, battle devils; They waged war against Hell and lost badly. Really badly. Even SSkies-era Empire can't compare itself to a Judgement, for reasons that would be spoilerific and I'd rather avoid comment.
- Low 2-C Tier: Why? I mean, yeah, there are many feats of beings capable of killing time, or warping time under their area of influence. This is true for both the Dawn Machine and, particularly, the King of Hours. In fact, I am quite ready to accept a Low 2-C rating, as I still have not gathered enough deep lore to properly comment on it, but there are some severe obstacles to this. One of which is that in both feats that I've seen being used to justify the argument, their areas of influence was, quite explicitly, not universe-wide, much les through multiple plane of existance. One of the key aspects of SSkies is precisely the Grave of Stars, the area of space in the universe that the light of no star can reach. Where their light can't penetrate, they simply cannot influence. I'd feel much safer tiering Judgements High 4-C, maybe more as I recall a feat that a certain Master of the Bazaar was once a being capable of wrecking solar systems, but he got utterly humiliated by a Judgement, but I don't recall the context, it might've been in the sense of conquest or a gradual thing.
- Low Multiversal range: I also don't get this. Judgements clearly can't affect even the entire material universe by themselves. They can somewhat affect other timelines (or at least they scale above things that can do so), but not in the way it is shown in the profile. And I am very curious to know what other planes of existance the profiles talk about, as Parabola, by necessity, can't be affected by a Judgement. Which reminds me, minor nitpick: Parabola is a realm of the Is-Not, but I wouldn't exactly call interacting with it or its denizens as Void Manipulation or even Non-Physical Manipulation. Parabola is the world of dreams. Beings from Parabola can escape from there and acquire physical shape, just not under the light of a Judgement. People would still get those powers, don't worry, just not because of that.
