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Elena Mathews VS Connor Helklier
- Thread starter Monarch_Laciel
- Start date
- 21,783
- 4,826
- Thread starter
- #2
I'll just begin
Elena
+ Flight with two of her forms
+ Better AP and dura
+ A very slippery target, capable of taking on smaller, larger or weirder forms to get out of holds and grabs.
+ Extremely poisonous bite with Eastern Brown Snake transformation
+ Can transform into Connor, with all his skills and intelligence.
+ Maintains her Divine Armour, Restoration and enhanced physical abilities even while in another form, so in this case if she turns into Connor she will also be stronger and more durable than him
+ Minor resistances to Connor's abilities. It won't nullify them completely, but she'll won't just stop fighting when she hears the violin.
- Without copying him, she is only at baseline subsonic, so depending on his speed he might be able to outspeed her
- Without copying him, she is much less skilled
- Can't copy violin or Tinkerer's Timepiece
- Requires time to analyse Connor with her Sight in order to transform into him, which she isn't the best at doing in the middle of a fight.
- Time stop will be effective, or at least make her slow enough that Connor can blitz her
Connor
+ Genius intelligence - despite her being capable of copying this IQ along with the rest of him, she can't actually utilise that intelligence as effectively
+ Time stop with the TT will let him blitz her
- If she turns into him, she will be stronger and more durable thanks to being a Hallow
- They will be even in skill in hand to hand and sword play (though she doesn't have a sword to use)
Elena
+ Flight with two of her forms
+ Better AP and dura
+ A very slippery target, capable of taking on smaller, larger or weirder forms to get out of holds and grabs.
+ Extremely poisonous bite with Eastern Brown Snake transformation
+ Can transform into Connor, with all his skills and intelligence.
+ Maintains her Divine Armour, Restoration and enhanced physical abilities even while in another form, so in this case if she turns into Connor she will also be stronger and more durable than him
+ Minor resistances to Connor's abilities. It won't nullify them completely, but she'll won't just stop fighting when she hears the violin.
- Without copying him, she is only at baseline subsonic, so depending on his speed he might be able to outspeed her
- Without copying him, she is much less skilled
- Can't copy violin or Tinkerer's Timepiece
- Requires time to analyse Connor with her Sight in order to transform into him, which she isn't the best at doing in the middle of a fight.
- Time stop will be effective, or at least make her slow enough that Connor can blitz her
Connor
+ Genius intelligence - despite her being capable of copying this IQ along with the rest of him, she can't actually utilise that intelligence as effectively
+ Time stop with the TT will let him blitz her
- If she turns into him, she will be stronger and more durable thanks to being a Hallow
- They will be even in skill in hand to hand and sword play (though she doesn't have a sword to use)
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Alright, Connor in character begins with playing the violin. This usually seems like nothing, but it's effects work anywhere from disrupting micro-movements to straight up making his opponent nauseous. Combined with his amazing ability to control his body language, he is capable of dodging even an entire group of trained mercenaries.
The violin and bow can act like a club/shield and shortsword respectively, and seeing as to how Elena does not have any equipment of her own, will be advantageous to Connor. The venom bite can be reversed by the Tinkerer's Timepiece, as can any bodily harm. Inb4 you say Elena can destroy it, if she breaks the watch, it will reset time around it by 5 seconds, restoring the watch. It's quartz is a Shard, and has about the same durability as most other shards like the Devoid and Thorn. So around the tier 2 threshold.
The way Is see it is that Elena will attempt to go in for the kill, but with Connor playing the violin, it's going to make it a lot harder. Either he gets her, or she wounds him and he uses the watch. Once the watch stops time, it's over for Elena.
The violin and bow can act like a club/shield and shortsword respectively, and seeing as to how Elena does not have any equipment of her own, will be advantageous to Connor. The venom bite can be reversed by the Tinkerer's Timepiece, as can any bodily harm. Inb4 you say Elena can destroy it, if she breaks the watch, it will reset time around it by 5 seconds, restoring the watch. It's quartz is a Shard, and has about the same durability as most other shards like the Devoid and Thorn. So around the tier 2 threshold.
The way Is see it is that Elena will attempt to go in for the kill, but with Connor playing the violin, it's going to make it a lot harder. Either he gets her, or she wounds him and he uses the watch. Once the watch stops time, it's over for Elena.
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- #4
I don't see the violin working on Elena. Divine Armour prevents undesired changes to the user, and while Elena's is below average, even when she was only a psuedo-hallow and didn't have its full effects or power she was able to partially resist a memory wipe that worked on the minds of an entire planet.
That feat sounds a lot more powerful than I'd originally intended it to be... I just needed her to keep some memories...
That feat sounds a lot more powerful than I'd originally intended it to be... I just needed her to keep some memories...
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- #5
Is there a limit on how long he can stop time for? Because remember, she does have a much higher durabiliy, especially with Divine Armour. And Divine Armour and Restoration is going to wreak havoc on attempts at scratch damage, even in stopped time.
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It's part of mind manipulation. It disrupts one's perceptions and their movements. It's like when you're trying to find a house while you're driving, and you can't concentrate on looking for the house with the radio music blaring. Plus, it's only one half of Connor's fighting style. His chrasma allows him to 'fake' movements, making even the most skilled fighters miss. Kinda like Taskmaster fighting Deadpool, but more elegant. Also, the violin also causes one to relax when they hear it's music, which is why it's such a good tool for interrogations.
And the Timepiece stops time as long as Connor holds down the switch. From there, Connor has a multitude of ways to kill her besides outright stabbing her.
And the Timepiece stops time as long as Connor holds down the switch. From there, Connor has a multitude of ways to kill her besides outright stabbing her.
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- Thread starter
- #7
Like I said, she does have a pretty good mind resistance feat even before becoming a full on Hallow. I don't think something that just messes with her perception to make things distract her, or his charisma would work.
What sorts of ways? Divine Armour negaes change, and the smaller the change, the easier to negate. Plus, there's another problem that just occurred to me.
Elena has Type 2 immortality, and physical damage alone can't kill her. The only way to kill her is to disrupt her willpower enough that she stops holding back Apeiron from consuming her. If she's in the middle of a time-stop, her willpower is never actually going to give out because it will never actually progress. But her Restoration, which stems from her Ego, will continue to work even in a time-stop, and only takes a minute or so. So does he have anything that can actually destroy her brain in less than a minute?
What sorts of ways? Divine Armour negaes change, and the smaller the change, the easier to negate. Plus, there's another problem that just occurred to me.
Elena has Type 2 immortality, and physical damage alone can't kill her. The only way to kill her is to disrupt her willpower enough that she stops holding back Apeiron from consuming her. If she's in the middle of a time-stop, her willpower is never actually going to give out because it will never actually progress. But her Restoration, which stems from her Ego, will continue to work even in a time-stop, and only takes a minute or so. So does he have anything that can actually destroy her brain in less than a minute?
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Would fast forwarding time age Elena at all? Because the effects of the watch don't affect the user. So he can just fast forward Elena to dust or reverse her back to nothingness. Also, before you ask how Connor is able to undo bodily harm with it, any and all injuries caused to connor before he activates the watch are deemed external forces and are thus not part of the user.
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- #9
Reversing her would, yes.
Fast forwarding would not, she's immortal.
But if she managed turns into him, she would actually be conceptualised as him, so would qualify as "the user" of the watch as she is identical to him.
Fast forwarding would not, she's immortal.
But if she managed turns into him, she would actually be conceptualised as him, so would qualify as "the user" of the watch as she is identical to him.
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- #11
If he fast forwards her time, she'll have all the time she needs to use her sight to analyse him and become him, thus rendering her immune to the watch as she is now also the user.
Also, by transforming into her other forms, she could continuously undo the time reversal, as how old they are is part of what she copies.
Also, by transforming into her other forms, she could continuously undo the time reversal, as how old they are is part of what she copies.
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If she really does become Connor, then I don't see any way that he can kill her, as iit is all about combat skill from that point onwards.
But if she transforms into other forms, all Connor has to do is undo their age by reversing it. Unless they are acasual or have time-paradox immunity.
But if she transforms into other forms, all Connor has to do is undo their age by reversing it. Unless they are acasual or have time-paradox immunity.
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- #13
Nah they don't have TPI or acausality.
What I mean is they she has a store of "forms" in her mind, and part of those forms is their biological age. So by continuously switching between forms, she could essentialy reset her age even as he tries to rewind it.
Inb4 you say her mind gets rewound too - Divine Armour protects.
What I mean is they she has a store of "forms" in her mind, and part of those forms is their biological age. So by continuously switching between forms, she could essentialy reset her age even as he tries to rewind it.
Inb4 you say her mind gets rewound too - Divine Armour protects.
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- #15
Seeing everything around her getting reversed and working it out? Her body moving backwards? Divine Armour + Sight would let her know what's going on even as time is reversing.
Plus she does have 19 years of time to get reversed before she vanishes, which is further increased by her also resisting that time reversal thanks to Divine Armour. So unless his time reversal is really damn fast, she'd have enoug time to work it out.
Plus she does have 19 years of time to get reversed before she vanishes, which is further increased by her also resisting that time reversal thanks to Divine Armour. So unless his time reversal is really damn fast, she'd have enoug time to work it out.
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The speed of how fast time moves forward and backwards is is directly affected by Connor himself. If he sees that the treat needs to be taken seriously, he will increase the speed of deceleration. The fastest it has ever gone was restoring eons worth of time in under a minute to bring back Mako 's oringinal form.
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- #17
Damn.
Well, how fast can she analyse him then...
"Elena's Sight specializes in perceiving people to complement her Affinity, and with a single glance at a person she can lay bare their body, soul, concepts and mind and observe their memories, motivations, beliefs and abilities"
Huh.
Glance here is metaphorical btw, the Sight basically shows everything around her in a 100m radius of decreasing efficiency.
I'm going to say inconclusive. If she transforms into him in time, she can win thanks to her regen, invulnerability and higher stats, even if he has the weapons. If she can't transform into him in time and he speeds up the reversal, she gets de-aged out of existence.
Well, how fast can she analyse him then...
"Elena's Sight specializes in perceiving people to complement her Affinity, and with a single glance at a person she can lay bare their body, soul, concepts and mind and observe their memories, motivations, beliefs and abilities"
Huh.
Glance here is metaphorical btw, the Sight basically shows everything around her in a 100m radius of decreasing efficiency.
I'm going to say inconclusive. If she transforms into him in time, she can win thanks to her regen, invulnerability and higher stats, even if he has the weapons. If she can't transform into him in time and he speeds up the reversal, she gets de-aged out of existence.
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