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Dragon Ball Super tiering questions

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First off, I don't watch DBZ/S, and have limited at best knowledge, so take just about everything I say with a grain of salt, infact, I encourage you to tear apart this thread, but I'm somewhat confused as to what makes high end DBS characters tier 3 and whatnot, so this isn't so much me trying to argue against it, but rather a desired clarification as to why these characters are as strong as they're said.

First off, I've been reading over the past few months comments with people saying that whis stated that Beerus can destroy a solar system when he's angry and using his strongest attack, apparently "galaxy" was a mistranslation, is this true?

Second, we have what is probably my least favourite argument to deal with in character battles (Seriously people bring this up even when Goku isn't involved) that Goku and Beerus were going to destroy the universe in their warm up battle, okay, well if that's the case, why aren't the clashes between Golden Frieza and Goku doing jack to the universe? I've seen clips of the fight between SSGSS Goku and Golden Frieza, and the punches are just creating small shockwaves, but if they are around galaxy level, shouldn't this be having more of an effect, even if neither are as strong as Beerus? Even then, concluding the battle, Frieza just blows up the planet in a last ditch effort, is he really not capable of more? Can he not send out a large burst of ki to perform a slightly more cataclysmic effect rather than just blowing up a planet, which is something he's done back in the Frieza arc? Especially since he's apparently not used to his form so would likely release more power than intended.

Also, if Goku does have multi galaxy level durability as a SSGSS, why why he taken out by a laser from one of Friezas men? I've found no information regarding this to be a super powerful weapon, so why was this enough to cripple SSGSS Goku? I've heard people stating that DBZ characters have a tendancy to have much lower durability when off guard, but this can't possible account from dropping to galaxy level durability to building level durability can it?

Like I've said before, I'm not trying to argue against the tier listings for DBS characters, since I imagine the people on this wiki are significantly more knowledgable than me, but I would apprieciete some explanation as to why these characters are so strong, yet also so inconsistent, and please don't take this as an attack on DBS, I'm not trying to hate on the series, or create any unwelcome content on this wiki.
 
  • 1 Goku and Beerus and the like are 3-B or Higher. That much is indiscussable. The reason for why the shockwaves weren't doing much damage was because it grew more and more potent the more away from it's origin point it got. Also, they would have destroyed the entire universe anyway in another 2-3 punches, but Goku mastered his God Form before that happened and learned to focus his attacks.
  • 2 In Fiction-Land, a character's Attack Potency can be drastically higher than their Area of Effect.
  • 3 Goku powered down to base form before he had his body pierced by the laser.
 
The laser thing is actually pretty backed up by canon (i.e. being off guard/not in fighting mode substantially lowers one's defense), but it's still a pretty terrible low showing.

The point is it wouldn't have happened had Goku had his guard up.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
*1 Goku and Beerus and the like are 3-B or Higher. That much is indiscussable. The reason for why the shockwaves weren't doing much damage was because it grew more and more potent the more away from it's origin point it got. Also, they would have destroyed the entire universe anyway in another 2-3 punches, but Goku mastered his God Form before that happened and learned to focus his attacks.
Not trying to shut down your argument, but this is kind of my problem with DBZ as a whole, was the universe actually going to end, or was Beerus just talking out of his ass, were there any visual indicators that the universe was about to collapse? I've tried looking up the fight, but I can't find any parts that involve Beerus saying the universe would end, let alone any universal busting feats (I at most saw a planet blown up in their fight).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKFptB5M30o (started watching fully from half way into the video).

Stuff like this seems to happen pretty frequently, for instance Cell saying he could destroy the solar system, but never actually got round to doing anything close to that, or Buu being able to destroy galaxies (I've heard people disregard this as apparently he did this planet at a time), characters just say they're capable of doing stuff but we just have to take their word for it. I get that maybe they are capable of these feats, but I prefer to have genuine proff of a characters busting feats, such as Frieza being able to destroy planets etc...
 
KaitoWu said:
Yeah, you have to realise that a fighter's body in DBZ is very fragile if not amped with Ki.
Well in DB there was no mention of ki defense,yet even when theye were off guard they didn't get hurt
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Pretty sure Elder Kai said Beerus was going to destroy the universe, actually.
Well I don't watch the anime as I said, but universe busting is a pretty damn high feat, galaxy is one thing, but from anything I've looked up in, all I'm seeing is a visual representation of asteroids and planets being destroyed, which hardly represent galaxies, let alone universe level, maybe I'm just being ignorant at this point, but I'm just not seeing universe level attack potency.
 
Strmi said:
Elder Kai stated it,Whis stated it,Vados too,even narrator stated it
Man those universes must have been made of something weak, like papier mache... or Raditz, also do you have a source on hand for that? I'm confident you're telling the truth, but just for the sake of knowing rather than assuming I would like to see this for myself.
 
Why would i keep links on vids for all that?

If you want to see it for yourself,then watch between ep 10-14 for Elder Kai,Whis and narrator statement and then again around ep 28-30 for Whis & Vados
 
Strmi said:
KaitoWu said:
Yeah, you have to realise that a fighter's body in DBZ is very fragile if not amped with Ki.
Well in DB there was no mention of ki defense,yet even when theye were off guard they didn't get hurt
Yeah, I mean they are naturally more durable than people are in real life, they're just fragile in terms of their universe.
 
Goku was in base, sightly exhausted, and guard off

Enough to say that the laser can damaged

(Although stills kinda dumb)
 
To be fair it was implied that that laser put him atleast above all his men maybe base form frieza (namek saga) do to it being advance technology
 
I hope you arent downplaying this for your sake, as the DB fans will hunt you down XD

There are many very convincing evidence I can present to you that proves characters liek Beerus are truly Universal level characters.

1. Most convincing Evidence: In an interview with Akira Toriyama (The creator of the DB series), he stated that Beerus is the absolute strongest in the entire 7th Universe, nothing higher, and said character has the sufficient raw power to destroy it. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/akira-toriyama-masako-nozawa-special-talk/ heres the link to the translated interview

2. Feats: His clashes with Goku made ripples throughout in the entire Universe. Despite the ripples showed in the show doing relatively small damage, it was only because of the show's lack of extreme quality animation, and it the ripples did indeed cause the entire Universe to crumble. The only reason why many people says that the ripples arent doing anything at all is because of the animation.

3. Statements by others: Multiple characters has stated that Beerus can literally make the entire Universe "disappear". Elder Kai said that Beerus can make the Universe disappear. Now i know you can use the "but other characters also said that Majin Buu or Cell can destroy the Universe" statement, but now, we have a new evidence. When Beerus was about to fight with his brother, Champa, Vados and Whis stop them. They said that if the two Gods of Destruction fought, both Universe 6 and Universe 7 will be destroyed.

Hopefully I answered you more clearly and more convincing.
 
@Elivs (To avoid quoting the entire thing)

Honestly, that's about the most logical argument I've ever seen from a fan of DB, and does clear up a majority of the questions I have that could oppose the idea of these being universal level characters.

Though, here's a question, what's the point of making these characters so stronk, if they're not even allowed to fight without destroying the universe? It just comes of as pretty redundant for Toriyama to make such strong characters but to avoid putting them at full strength battles because the universe will implode... then again that's just my gripes with DB rather than anything relevant to the thread so feel free to ignore.
 
Though, here's a question, what's the point of making these characters so stronk, if they're not even allowed to fight without destroying the universe?

Oh Im not gonna ignore this lol

The main theme for the Dragon Ball series is that there is always someone stronger than you. If you dont know what I mean, then let me explain.

The DB Series mostly explains the story of Goku. Toriyama created Goku as an inspiration for us. Goku is a character who always works hard to be the best. So throughout the series, we see Goku always gets stronger but no matter how strong he become,s there is always someone who stronger than him. Whether or not you like or dislike Dragon Ball, you got to agree that Goku is an inspirational character.

So Goku gets ridiculously strong, heck he is at this point, a Universe Buster, but no matter what level of strength he reach, there are always someone who is stronger than him. (and so the theme continues lol)

I know my answer is mostly my point of view and also does not 100% answer your question, and also is not "canon" point of view, but ehhh its still an answer.
 
Not going to argue that Goku is an inspirational character, I'm sure he was/is for many people growing up with DB, but I don't need a character like that to be my inspiration for what I can achieve, which is probably why DB never appealed to me, and pprobably why I just view it as a show people watch just to see cool guys fighting. Plus (Or at least the way you've worded it) it makes it seem more like that no matter how hard you work you'll never reach the top, and that they'll always be someone better, which kind of downplays the whole point of working hard to be the best.
 
Kyo Zero said:
Not going to argue that Goku is an inspirational character, I'm sure he was/is for many people growing up with DB, but I don't need a character like that to be my inspiration for what I can achieve, which is probably why DB never appealed to me, and pprobably why I just view it as a show people watch just to see cool guys fighting. Plus (Or at least the way you've worded it) it makes it seem more like that no matter how hard you work you'll never reach the top, and that they'll always be someone better, which kind of downplays the whole point of working hard to be the best.
Im okay with you not appealed to DB, we all have our own opinions.

In my opinion, Goku working hard to be the best, despite there is always someone stronger than him, is related to real life. All of us always work hard to be the best, dont we? Its part of human nature, but even if we worked hard "to be the best", there is always/or in the future, someone stronger and better than you. Thats my point of view though, and Im not against you if you disagree with me and have a different opinion.
 
I'm certainly not going to disagree with you, we all have out own different interpretations on how to live life, I personally don't strive to be the best, I just do what makes me happy, but I can understand that other people operate differently and do want to be the best that they can, and I imagine Goku is very much an inspiration to these people and more.
 
yup, I agree with you.

Also, its nice that this didnt end up in a fight or an argument. Cuz normally, a DB fan and a non-DB fan, who are discussing about DB related topics, always ended up in a fight, with the DB fan always being biased lol
 
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