Dragon Ball Special Addition Ki

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Let's start with the most straightforward definition. Ki is basically the life force an energy that exists within all living beings and which, with proper training, can be channeled and externalized and used in various types of techniques, from attacks to other uses, such as allowing its user to fly. As Ki is literally a person's life force, it is tied to their physiology: this is why Goku and other characters need to eat so much after using so much energy in fights. It's safe to say that proper rest and nutrition are enough to restore a person's Ki. That's even why the healing properties of the Seeds of the Gods can restore a fighter's energy levels. This also means that using your energy in a fight will cause you tremendous physical fatigue.

First evidence of ki being invisible

What did you fret over when thinking up techniques like the Kamehameha and their poses?

Techniques that are plain but effective aren’t suited for manga. Stuff like strangleholds and locking techniques are troublesome to draw and hard to make very flashy. Even the Kamehameha is a technique that expels “ki”, which by nature is invisible, but I was able to make it flashy by hitting upon the idea of portraying it as something that could be seen with the naked eye. With that pose too, I tried out a lot of different ones. What’s more, I had to think up special characteristics for each character’s techniques, but I ran out of patterns really fast, so it was tough (laughs).

Toriyamas column for "Dragon Ball Extreme Battle Collection: Round 02"


Second quote saying that ki is invisible

Dragon Ball seems to have influenced many video games and manga. Where did you get the idea for the attacks that appear in Dragon Ball, such as the kamehameha and the whole idea of chi power?

Chi [also spelled “Ki”–Editor] has been used in China since ancient times, but it’s supposed to be formless and invisible. However, in manga, in order to make it easier for any reader to grasp, it was necessary to give it a shape. For the kamehameha, I myself did a lot of different poses and chose the one that I thought would work the best.

The January 2003 of Shonen Jump

In episode 4 of Dragon Ball Daima ends up explaining again for the third time that ki is an invisible energy.




Basically, those visual and flashy effects are nothing less than to draw our attention to be able to see the ki, since the ki itself is invisible.

New ability that ki users will have on their ki manipulation page invisibility:

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I don't think all Ki attacks are inherently invisible. Here are some examples that'd contradict that:

• Goku using a Kame Hame Ha against an enemy weak to light due to it being flashy
• Goku copying Roshi's Kame Hame Ha: Unless for some reason you believe a base, featless Goku with no understanding over the concept of Ki has the ability to see invisible ki beams, then it'd contradict that feat
• Normal humans noticing about Buu's Human killing technique and describing them as "fireworks
• Attacks like Kiai cannon being described as invisible, opposed to the normal ki attacks. If all of them were already invisible, claiming one in specific is is redundant

So, nah. Materialized Ki attacks aren't inherently invisible. What is invisible is the Ki that all living beings have, that's the invisible form they're talking about, which cannot be sensed unless you have trained to do so (such as DB Kakarott shows).

Edit: Hell, also, if Ki was invisible, then beings from the Demon Realm shouldn't be able to see it since they cannot sense it. But they were capable of seeing Ki attacks and describe them as some short of magic in the very first episode of Daima

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I don't think all Ki attacks are inherently invisible. Here are some examples that'd contradict that:

• Goku using a Kame Hame Ha against an enemy weak to light due to it being flashy
• Goku copying Roshi's Kame Hame Ha: Unless for some reason you believe a base, featless Goku with no understanding over the concept of Ki has the ability to see invisible ki beams, then it'd contradict that feat
• Normal humans noticing about Buu's Human killing technique and describing them as "fireworks
• Attacks like Kiai cannon being described as invisible, opposed to the normal ki attacks. If all of them were already invisible, claiming one in specific is is redundant

So, nah. Materialized Ki attacks aren't inherently invisible. What is invisible is the Ki that all living beings have, that's the invisible form they're talking about, which cannot be sensed unless you have trained to do so (such as DB Kakarott shows).

In fact, Akira toriyama mentions that the ki is all invisible and includes the attack, his point is refuted when Akira mentions that he has made it so that the ki bursts can be seen by fans who watch his manga and see how the ki is formed.

Even the Kamehameha is a technique that expels “ki”, which by nature is invisible, but I was able to make it flashy by hitting upon the idea of portraying it as something that could be seen with the naked eye. With that pose too, I tried out a lot of different ones. What’s more, I had to think up special characteristics for each character’s techniques, but I ran out of patterns really fast, so it was tough (laughs).

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Yeah, cool for Toriyama saying that. But word of the author is meaningless if the series itself does not potray it like that.

And, as I've linked above, there are cases of even normal humans seeing Ki attacks. Going by Ki being invisible would mean every living being in DB would have the ability to sense ki, including common people; which is just wrong

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Yeah, cool for Toriyama saying that. But word of the author is meaningless if the series itself does not potray it like that.

And, as I've linked above, there are cases of even normal humans seeing Ki attacks. Going by Ki being invisible would mean every living being in DB would have the ability to sense ki, including common people; which is just wrong

Then i will have to disagree with your opinion, as we have 3 statements stating that ki is invisible to the characters, some characters can detect ki, with training and the most recent work showing that in fact ki is invisible to people,

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Then i will have to disagree with your opinion, as we have 3 statements stating that ki is invisible to the characters,

Series feats > Statements

some characters can detect ki, with training and the most recent work showing that in fact ki is invisible to people,

Yeah, Ki is invisible, I agree. Ki attacks aren't

The DB Daima dialogue you've shown also shows that they were talking about Ki in the sense of the living energy of all people, not its physical manifestation in form of attacks. As Goku was talking about sensing that guy's ki

Also, this:

Hell, also, if Ki was invisible, then beings from the Demon Realm shouldn't be able to see it since they cannot sense it. But they were capable of seeing Ki attacks and describe them as some short of magic in the very first episode of Daima

 

[Nierre]

Goku literally saw Roshi use the Kamehameha for the first time.

Sure, Ki is invisible, but Ki ATTACKS are not. For the most part, anyway. @JustANormalPerson01 FRA

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Series feats > Statements

Recent Interviews > Made in the years 1990 series?

Yeah, Ki is invisible, I agree. Ki attacks aren't

The DB Daima dialogue you've shown also shows that they were talking about Ki in the sense of the living energy of all people, not its physical manifestation in form of attacks. As Goku was talking about sensing that guy's ki

Akira Toriyama's information covers the attacks being invisible, they just put color in them so people can see them with the naked eye, my god, it's so boring to explain again and again.

Also, this:

I have already commented on this point.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Recent Interviews > Made in the years 1990 series?

Akira is known as forgetting things he himself has made.

Also, yeah. Series > Interviews, always.

Akira Toriyama's information covers the attacks being invisible, they just put color in them so people can see them with the naked eye, my god, it's so boring to explain again and again.

I understand your point. But I'm sorry, I do not accept something that is contradicted several times in the series and whose acceptation would end up contradicting several plot points.

I have already commented on this point.

Please tell me where? Because I haven't seen how characters who do not even know what Ki is; believing it is magic instead, can see Ki attacks.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

We have several attacks being described as invisible

•"The user fires a concentrated beam of energy from their fingertips. It travels at a blinding speed and, even when multiple beams are fired in a row. can be invisible to the naked eye."

•Like Nappa's attack, after he moves his fingers and you just see an explosion on the floor after moving a few fingers

•Invisible three eyes summoning invisible attack

•Goku summoning invisible attacks

•Freeza also launching an invisible attack

•Invisible attacks are repeatedly shown

• Invisible

Some attacks which are invisible to the naked eye have already been demonstrated within the work itself, as i said earlier people realize something may just be a retcon since the images you showed are very old.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

We have several attacks being described as invisible

•"The user fires a concentrated beam of energy from their fingertips. It travels at a blinding speed and, even when multiple beams are fired in a row. can be invisible to the naked eye."

That is talking about speed, please…

•Invisible three eyes summoning invisible attack

•Goku summoning invisible attacks

•Freeza also launching an invisible attack

•Invisible attacks are repeatedly shown

• Invisible

Some attacks which are invisible to the naked eye have already been demonstrated within the work itself, as i said earlier people realize something may just be a retcon since the images you showed are very old.

All of these are kiai, which is an invisible shockwave, dude…

This:

•Like Nappa's attack, after he moves his fingers and you just see an explosion on the dog

Is the only possible case, and it could also be a shockwave technique like Kiai.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

That is talking about speed, please…

Yes, friend, let's pretend we don't see "invisible to the naked eye" there.

All of these are kiai, which is an invisible shockwave, dude…

This:

Is the only possible case, and it could also be a shockwave technique like Kiai.

Well, it's not, it's more of an ability based on the characters' ki, as i said before, you seeing something doesn't refute what the actor demonstrated to be invisible, he himself mentioned that the attacks are invisible and the work shows this, with several pieces of evidence of this, just painting with different colors does not refute what the actor said and demonstrated in his work.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Yes, friend, let's pretend we don't see "invisible to the naked eye" there.

"The user fires a concentrated beam of energy from their fingertips. It travels at a blinding speed

Same phrase when talking about its speed.

and, even when multiple beams are fired in a row, can be invisible to the naked eye."

"Even when multiple beams are fired in a row"; why would it matter the amount of beams fired if it is inherently invisible? It is clearly talking about its speed. "Even if you throw many one after the other, it goes so fast you cannot see them".

Please, do not nitpick what it says to fit your headcanon

he himself mentioned that the attacks are invisible and the work shows this,

I don't think all Ki attacks are inherently invisible. Here are some examples that'd contradict that:

• Goku using a Kame Hame Ha against an enemy weak to light due to it being flashy
• Goku copying Roshi's Kame Hame Ha: Unless for some reason you believe a base, featless Goku with no understanding over the concept of Ki has the ability to see invisible ki beams, then it'd contradict that feat
• Normal humans noticing about Buu's Human killing technique and describing them as "fireworks
• Attacks like Kiai cannon being described as invisible, opposed to the normal ki attacks. If all of them were already invisible, claiming one in specific is is redundant

So, nah. Materialized Ki attacks aren't inherently invisible. What is invisible is the Ki that all living beings have, that's the invisible form they're talking about, which cannot be sensed unless you have trained to do so (such as DB Kakarott shows).

Edit: Hell, also, if Ki was invisible, then beings from the Demon Realm shouldn't be able to see it since they cannot sense it. But they were capable of seeing Ki attacks and describe them as some short of magic in the very first episode of Daima

with several pieces of evidence of this,

The only evidence of the work itself is this:

In episode 4 of Dragon Ball Daima ends up explaining again for the third time that ki is an invisible energy.




Basically, those visual and flashy effects are nothing less than to draw our attention to be able to see the ki, since the ki itself is invisible.

Which is clearly talking about Ki as the living energy, not ki attacks. In the dialogue you yourself has shown they were talking about sensing someone's ki

just painting with different colors does not refute what the actor said and demonstrated in his work.

Please, show me where it is demostrated. Because all you've shown is several characters using Kiai, a technique that is specifically invisible. Also, please, address all the contradictions Ki attacks being invisible would cause. Starting of why people who do not know what ki is, cannot sense it and think it is "white magic" or "special magical attacks" can see them in the very series that supposedly shows ki attacks being invisible (even when it's not talking about ki attacks in the dialogue you've sent)

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Having to repeat the same points over and over again isn't my cup of tea, Glorio asking what ki is? And he doesn't know what it is, the Kaioshin explains that ki itself is an invisible energy, all this about the energy itself that he is referring to, so much so that Akira toriyama mentions about the Kamehameha that is invisible, but made everyone can see the energy through poses and even paint the energies so that we can see, i will not keep repeating an infinite loop because you do not accept it.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

So you are not going to answer anything that goes against your headcanon? Good way to defend a CRT.

Guess all humans in DB have ki sensing

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with @JustANormalPerson01. There are too many examples of Ki not being invisible.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Friend, i have explained many times and you still don't understand, i can see your disagreement, but i will not go back and forth.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree with @JustANormalPerson01. There are too many examples of Ki not being invisible.

Could you close this?

 

[Omegabronic]

Disagree fra

 

[Damage3245]

Could you close this?

Okay. Closing.