DOOM BFG 9000 revision

[Kilgorethecouch]

For a long time now the BFG 9000 has been considered an almost entirely heat based weapon with little force in comparison.

At the time I’d say this was a reasonable conclusion considering every calc it had was based on vaporizing something through the sheer heat of the argent energy.

However, after finding and
calculating this feat I would say this is inaccurate.

DOOM 2016: BFG 9000 inverse square law

vsbattles.fandom.com

This clearly shows that the force of the weapon is very much comparable to its heat.

If this is accepted, all we really need to do is get rid of the note in the BFGs profile about it being mostly heat based, as well as scale it’s full energy to the deserving characters.

Not fully sure on who that would be, but I suspect most if not all the super heavy demons and boss level demons.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

If shattering the pedestal was calculated, that is a force calculation yes. And ISL is usable. So it would be criteria for generating 8-A amounts of force yeah.

 

[Firestorm808]

Seems okay.

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We only need one more staff evaluation, given 3 staff considered good to go. But I can ping who is listed among supporters/knowledgeable members.

@Crabwhale @Mr. Bambu @Colonel_Krukov Look good to you?

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Yes that is fantastic.

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Bump

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Bump

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Bump

 

[Firestorm808]

What else is there to discuss?

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

I think we only need one more staff member to agree for it to get accepted.

Beyond that I suppose ironing out who should and should not scale to the BFG. none of the heavy demons obviously, as they can’t take even a single shot. and all of the boss level demons/character should scale.

And I’d say out of the super heavy demons, the marauder should not physically scale (although the durability of his shield should). The doom Hunters shield can’t take one hit, and neither can its body so it probably shouldn’t scale at all.
I’m not really sure where the arch vile sits in all this beyond the fact that its shield should scale.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I think we only need one more staff member to agree for it to get accepted.

According to the wiki's Discussion Rules, only 2 should be enough

I don't think this specific revision meets the criteria for something that needs 3 staff members to pass

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Well DarkDragonMedeus said we needed one so

 

[Firestorm808]

2 should be fine.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Since there doesn't seem to be much traffic, I suppose 2 is fine then.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Well DarkDragonMedeus said we needed one so

We only need one more staff evaluation, given 3 staff considered good to go. But I can ping who is listed among supporters/knowledgeable members.

@Crabwhale @Mr. Bambu @Colonel_Krukov Look good to you?

He says “one more”

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Now that is out of the way, the main concern I do have is the gameplay mechanics involved as the Calculations does actually involve gameplay footage.

I will admit the math seems fine, but since it involves gameplay mechanics, it make me kinda hesitant to completely accept the calc there.

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

I don’t see how the fact that this calculation uses gameplay footage would invalidate it.

I thought for something to be considered a “game mechanic” it would need to be contradictory to things we see outside of gameplay like lore. which, as far as I remember, it is not.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I don’t see how the fact that this calculation uses gameplay footage would invalidate it.

I thought for something to be considered a “game mechanic” it would need to be contradictory to things we see outside of gameplay like lore. which, as far as I remember, it is not.

Game Mechanics

Game Mechanics refers to the abilities shown in games (usually video games) that are determined by the rules of the game (examples include hit points, levels, statistics, world map crossing in seconds outside of cinematics, etcetera) and are not necessarily indicative of a character's or...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Still counts under game mechanics even for gameplay footage against the final boss.

I will admit it is scripted gameplay ie. You are supposed to beat this boss to progress the story and so on, but even then, I admittedly find this still fall under game mechanics.

However, as you noted, there should been a Code Entry for BFG 9000 since this is from DOOM 2016 after all.

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Are you arguing that gameplay footage is automatically game mechanics with a little exception?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, I really do not get the awkward reasoning. It's just uncontested pixel scaling to get a reasonable blast radius parameter.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Are you arguing that gameplay footage is automatically game mechanics with a little exception?

Yeah, basically. As even with the gameplay footage you provided, that anyone is capable of beat the Spider Mastermind without using BFG 9000.

Hell, the one you show is one gameplay footage out of the many provided on YT.

On YouTube, there are a lot of videos of ppl beating the Spider Mastermind without using BFG 9000.

Edit: Meant BFG 9000

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yeah, I really do not get the awkward reasoning. It's just uncontested pixel scaling to get a reasonable blast radius parameter.

In the gameplay footage provided, it doesn’t seem to make a crater per se.

In fact, the energy blast from the BFG 9000 dissipates upon hitting a wall.



^^That is the footage I viewing currently btw, used for the calc


Edit: Also that doesn’t mean I fully disagree with using the calc as it is mathematically fine it seems. The real issue is how this can been apply in a practical sense as well as other specific issues

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

I’m confused and how the fact that people can beat the spider mastermind without using the BFG invalidates my calculation.

Hell there are BFG ammo pick ups scattered around the arena, if that doesn’t tell you that the Devs wanted you to use it I don’t know what would.

In the gameplay footage provided, it doesn’t seem to make a crater per se.

In fact, the energy blast from the BFG 9000 dissipates upon hitting a wall.

Yes, it didn’t create a crater, probably because the devs didn’t implement a destructible environment system, probably because it would’ve been counter productive for their intentions regarding this boss fight.

At the end of the day, this is a weapon that is depicted in lore as powerful enough to vaporize flesh and metal, if anything, the game mechanic here is the fact that it didn’t create a crater.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I’m confused and how the fact that people can beat the spider mastermind without using the BFG invalidates my calculation.

Hell there are BFG ammo pick ups scattered around the arena, if that doesn’t tell you that the Devs wanted you to use it I don’t know what would.

BFG ammo is kinda there because they set up it that way for gameplay reasons.


Also I saying this wouldn’t completely invalidate your calc. Only that, the math is fine. Issue is if this can apply because all I see is multiple pillars going down after the energy blast dissipated against a wall going by the footage.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Anyway, outside of my own concerns, it is still ultimately up for the staffs to accept a CRT so it is not like my input is that important outside of some concerns that involve usage of game mechanics and all

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Also I saying this wouldn’t completely invalidate your calc. Only that, the math is fine. Issue is if this can apply because all I see is multiple pillars going down after the energy blast dissipated against a wall going by the footage.

The BFG is an explosive weapon that upon hitting a surface create a shockwave that is not visible to the player, although the explosive fireball of the BFG shot is not that big the shockwave is.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The BFG is an explosive weapon that upon hitting a surface create a shockwave that is not visible to the player, although the explosive fireball of the BFG shot is not that big the shockwave is.

It is not strictly treated as a explosion though.

Heck, in Doom Eternal, we see tendrils of energy released from BFG 9000 in gameplay footage. Same applies to Doom 2016.

In fact, we see energy spreading to demons here.



Just right before the energy ball hits the floor in this case

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Speaking of lore, here is a code entry with multiple parts.





“ This weapon delivers streams of supercharged Argent Energy to multiple targets, and is to some extent self-guiding. The streams will seek any cache of Argent it can find - usually demons (or human test subjects that have had Argent beacons surgically implanted). When the streams find their target, they released all of their stored energy in a fraction of second, delivering an electrical shock that instantly boils the blood and fatty tissue of the recipient. Spontaneous explosion of the subject often follows.”

Just to specify what part of the codex entry I using for this weapon.

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

BFG tendrils are very visible things, and yet I see none of them being extended out to the pedestals as the BFG passes by them in my clip, in fact, none of them are destroyed until the BFG shot explodes against the wall.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

BFG tendrils are very visible things, and yet I see none of them being extended out to the pedestals as the BFG passes by them in my clip, in fact, none of them are destroyed until the BFG shot explodes against the wall.

Kinda weird unless it only applies to organic beings that has argent energy in them which makes a lot more sense there.

Regardless, the BFG 9000 can been used at any time for the boss fight/Spider Mastermind even before the clip you provided here.


IE. This clip wouldn’t necessarily matter in the long run tbh.

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

I’m confused, what exactly is your problem with this feat again?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I’m confused, what exactly is your problem with this feat again?

Just the usage of game mechanics. That is pretty much it, really. However, I rather not dwell a bit much on the discussion we have earlier too much.

I just leave it as “agree to disagree” tbh

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

Ok so it looks like this has been accepted, so I’m going to make the changes to the necessary profiles.

 

[Kilgorethecouch]

all changes have been made.