Demon Slayer Revisions

[Machmatej]

Gyutaro's final attack is an ultimatum and no one scales up to it. I've been watching that season for a long time, and as far as I remember, getting hit by one of those red splashes was deadly for Tengen and Tanjiro.

Tanjiro and Tengen tanked that shit. The only reason Tengen was left out of commission afterwards was because of the poison. Even so, demon slayers have consistently shown higher AP than their durability.

Shockwave calculation is complete nonsense, because Ubuyashiki took damage through communication with crows, as Dark has already noted. We don't even really see the actual destruction to apply the explosion formula. No one in the mansion noticed the shock wave because it simply wasn't there.

People have already replied to this, you're just recycling the same argument from Dark without reading the other replies.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

I know other users already replied here, but I just want to clarify some extra stuff.

Ok first of all, just because it was accepted in one verse it doesn't mean it has to be accepted in others

Similar shockwave feats haven’t been accepted for one other verse only, but at least four of them.

that was one problem that happened in JJK where some tried to bring up that something was done in other verses but everyone had issues when applied to JJK even though it was the same situation

I’m not sure how does this has anything to do with Muzan’s shockwave. If they didn’t accept those feats for JJK they most likely had their reasons, which aren’t necessarily the same are you’re bringing up for Muzan's feat.​

the answer that was given was simple: those feats are wrong, and just because they were done in thar verses it doesn't mean it should be done in every other verse.

What exactly do other calculations being wrong have to do with Muzan's feat? Furthermore, the same rules apply for all the verses in the wiki, we don’t make special exceptions, and Muzan's calc simply doesn’t transgress any of these rules and follows the same structure as many other accepted and implemented calculations.​

Also you have no prove that the attack Muzan did reached there

Kiriya and his sisters being harmed by the shockwave and the databook statement are pretty much enough to prove the shockwave did reach all the way to mansion.​

literally my interpretation is what the Manga implies, because first we see the crows dead, and then we see the Ubuyashikis removing the seal from there eyes visibly affected by something

Again, this is only your personal interpretation of a scene that has no explicit meaning. Yes, the shockwave happens, we see the dead crows, and then we see Kiriya bleeding from the attack; but that’s all there is to it. There is quite a leap from that scene alone to conclude the shockwave was transmitted through Yushiro’s BDA. The sequence might just be a transition to switch from the battlefield to the mansion, without it having anything to do with damage reflection at all. If you’re claiming the attack reflected through the talismans, then you must provide evidence to support your claim, a personal and subjective interpretation of a scene without any explicit meaning is no evidence.​

and the Databook was also very vague, a long range attack by Kibutsuji injures the Master of the Mansion, but yet the scans don't show the attack reaching there or affecting the others combatants in the battlefield besides Tanjiro and Obanai, even though the range of this attack should be gigantic

The databook statement isn’t vague at all, it explicitly states that a long-ranged attack from Muzan injured Kiriya. Even if we ignore the databook, the only logical conclusion is that the shockwave extended all the way to Kiriya’s mansion, as there is no other way it could have possibly injured him; the databook simply makes the matter clearer.
The only way you could get around this is by making the underlaying assumption of the shockwave being reflected through the crows, however, you have provided no evidence to support such claim, while all the other available evidence strongly contradicts it.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Just because no other demon hunter seemed to be hit by Muzan’s shockwave doesn’t mean that’s what actually happened. Furthermore, the energy from a shockwave dissipates over distance, and it does so “fast”, as it follows a 1/r² proportionality (r being the distance from the epicenter), and it should be remembered that Muzan tried to flee from the battlefield and ran away for quite a while, so he must have gotten away from the rest, reducing the energy from the blast they must have experienced. Even if we assume Muzan ran away for a mere 5 seconds (even though he ran during 6 full pages) at peak-human speeds, he should have gotten around 60 meters away from his initial position, effectively reducing the potency of the blast hundreds of times for those near to Muzan’s initial location when compared to the energy Obanai was hit with, as him and Tanjiro were the ones closest to the epicenter.
​

And about not happening before that could simply be an incontinence, and you said it best am weakened shockwave, of course is not going affect them more than the stronger one.

Do you realize that every other single instance of the crows being killed or talismans getting destroyed show absolutely no damage reflection at all? Claiming that all of these instances are an inconsistency because they directly contradict that one single occasion in which the damage was supposedly transmitted through the talismans sounds like an extremely convenient assumption…
Come on now, if every other piece of evidence shows that damage can’t reflect through Yushiro’s talismans, then the conclusion is quite straightforward: Damage simply does not transmit through the talismans.
​

About Gyutaro that is simply not enough for me, a lot of authors are deeply involved in the anime adaptation but that still doesn't mean the feats are applicable, since the animator may chose to exaggerate something that is happening, that is a issue that many verses have gone though.

The anime doesn’t exaggerate the feat nor does it contradicts the manga. As I said, both manga and anime show that Gyutaro’s attack caused massive destruction by destroying several buildings, with this being further reinforced in the novelization. The key point is that the anime provides a reliable way of precisely quantifying the amount of destruction while also meeting all the standards of the wiki.​

• The anime was supervised by the author.
• The feat is present in both mediums (anime and manga), thus it’s not anime only.
• Both manga and anime show the attack caused massive destruction, a notion that’s also supported by the novelization; therefore there is no contradiction across different sources.

In conclusion, the calculation can be used.

And the moutain of rumble, and and every building in sight had collapsed is simply not enough as well, because we don't know the time-frame or the state were what remained of this building and that counts a lot, and since you said we didn't saw that in the manga then I have no reason to believe that the animators didn't simply choose to exaggerate what happened between Gyutaro and Tengen.

The manga not providing a timeframe for the feat doesn’t mean the anime can’t be used, as there’s nothing suggesting the timeframe differs from the manga to the anime. If anything, the manga shows how Gyutaro’s attack extended several meters by the time Tengen had only managed to move around 2 meters away from Gyutaro’s body, suggesting the attack was extending fairly quickly, which is in line with the anime scene.
Once again, the anime arises no contradictions, so there is no issue with using it.​

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I've been watching that season for a long time

May I ask for how long? I recall you somehow thinking that Nichirin blades nullify the need of matching physical strength and that Muzan's Regeneration can get exhausted. That doesn't give me much confidence.

 

[Machmatej]

I know other users already replied here, but I just want to clarify some extra stuff.


Similar shockwave feats haven’t been accepted for one other verse only, but at least four of them.

I’m not sure how does this has anything to do with Muzan’s shockwave. If they didn’t accept those feats for JJK they most likely had their reasons, which aren’t necessarily the same are you’re bringing up for Muzan's feat.


What exactly do other calculations being wrong have to do with Muzan's feat? Furthermore, the same rules apply for all the verses in the wiki, we don’t make special exceptions, and Muzan's calc simply doesn’t transgress any of these rules and follows the same structure as many other accepted and implemented calculations.


Kiriya and his sisters being harmed by the shockwave and the databook statement are pretty much enough to prove the shockwave did reach all the way to mansion.


Again, this is only your personal interpretation of a scene that has no explicit meaning. Yes, the shockwave happens, we see the dead crows, and then we see Kiriya bleeding from the attack; but that’s all there is to it. There is quite a leap from that scene alone to conclude the shockwave was transmitted through Yushiro’s BDA. The sequence might just be a transition to switch from the battlefield to the mansion, without it having anything to do with damage reflection at all. If you’re claiming the attack reflected through the talismans, then you must provide evidence to support your claim, a personal and subjective interpretation of a scene without any explicit meaning is no evidence.


The databook statement isn’t vague at all, it explicitly states that a long-ranged attack from Muzan injured Kiriya. Even if we ignore the databook, the only logical conclusion is that the shockwave extended all the way to Kiriya’s mansion, as there is no other way it could have possibly injured him; the databook simply makes the matter clearer.
The only way you could get around this is by making the underlaying assumption of the shockwave being reflected through the crows, however, you have provided no evidence to support such claim, while all the other available evidence strongly contradicts it.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". Just because no other demon hunter seemed to be hit by Muzan’s shockwave doesn’t mean that’s what actually happened. Furthermore, the energy from a shockwave dissipates over distance, and it does so “fast”, as it follows a 1/r² proportionality (r being the distance from the epicenter), and it should be remembered that Muzan tried to flee from the battlefield and ran away for quite a while, so he must have gotten away from the rest, reducing the energy from the blast they must have experienced. Even if we assume Muzan ran away for a mere 5 seconds (even though he ran during 6 full pages) at peak-human speeds, he should have gotten around 60 meters away from his initial position, effectively reducing the potency of the blast hundreds of times for those near to Muzan’s initial location when compared to the energy Obanai was hit with, as him and Tanjiro were the ones closest to the epicenter.


Do you realize that every other single instance of the crows being killed or talismans getting destroyed show absolutely no damage reflection at all? Claiming that all of these instances are an inconsistency because they directly contradict that one single occasion in which the damage was supposedly transmitted through the talismans sounds like an extremely convenient assumption…
Come on now, if every other piece of evidence shows that damage can’t reflect through Yushiro’s talismans, then the conclusion is quite straightforward: Damage simply does not transmit through the talismans.


The anime doesn’t exaggerate the feat nor does it contradicts the manga. As I said, both manga and anime show that Gyutaro’s attack caused massive destruction by destroying several buildings, with this being further reinforced in the novelization. The key point is that the anime provides a reliable way of precisely quantifying the amount of destruction while also meeting all the standards of the wiki.​

• The anime was supervised by the author.
• The feat is present in both mediums (anime and manga), thus it’s not anime only.
• Both manga and anime show the attack caused massive destruction, a notion that’s also supported by the novelization; therefore there is no contradiction across different sources.

In conclusion, the calculation can be used.

The manga not providing a timeframe for the feat doesn’t mean the anime can’t be used, as there’s nothing suggesting the timeframe differs from the manga to the anime. If anything, the manga shows how Gyutaro’s attack extended several meters by the time Tengen had only managed to move around 2 meters away from Gyutaro’s body, suggesting the attack was extending fairly quickly, which is in line with the anime scene.
Once again, the anime arises no contradictions, so there is no issue with using it.​

I doubt he's reading allat but cook

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Gyutaro's final attack is an ultimatum and no one scales up to it. I've been watching that season for a long time, and as far as I remember, getting hit by one of those red splashes was deadly for Tengen and Tanjiro.

What exactly is the problem with Gyutaro’s attack being the one that caused the most destruction? It’s not like Gyutaro couldn’t use the same attack consecutively, and he’s pretty much able to do so as he doesn’t get tired. On the other hand, it’s already known that demons can invest similar amounts of energy into any given technique should they want to. Tengen was able to stop Gyutaro’s BDA through sheer strength, thus he scales. This has been already said, but the main reason for Gyutaro’s blood blades being deadly was the poison which could literally kill a trained demon hunter in a matter of seconds.
​

Shockwave calculation is complete nonsense, because Ubuyashiki took damage through communication with crows, as Dark has already noted.

Do you have any actual evidence to support this claim? Because DarkRuler provided none. And not only that, but every other instance of the talismans being destroyed or the crows getting murdered shows absolutely no damage reflection, which strongly contradicts the notion of damage being transmitted through them.
​

We don't even really see the actual destruction to apply the explosion formula. No one in the mansion noticed the shock wave because it simply wasn't there.

This has already been addressed before, but I’ll go through it again. The databook is pretty clear on what happened:

“A long-range attack by Kibutsuji injures the master of the mansion”.

And there is no other possible way in which the shockwave could have injured Kiriya and his sisters. The damage being transmitted through the crows remains largely speculative without any real sustain and heavily contradicted by several prior events. On the other hand, a 1 psi overpressure shockwave will not cause any noticeable effect on a wooden structure.​

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

Gyutaro's final attack is an ultimatum and no one scales up to it. I've been watching that season for a long time, and as far as I remember, getting hit by one of those red splashes was deadly for Tengen and Tanjiro.

Just an addendum to Epyriel's argument, Nezuko is vaporizing multiple attacks to lessen the destruction, I believe that everyone who is comparable to her should level up too.

 

[Passersby]

Gyutaro's final attack is an ultimatum and no one scales up to it. I've been watching that season for a long time, and as far as I remember, getting hit by one of those red splashes was deadly for Tengen and Tanjiro.

the bloodblades were deadly because getting scratched by them made an extremely deadly impossible to stop poison constantly run trough your veins and kill you, tengen only survived because of his high poison resistance, otherwise the actual point in favor of them scaling is parrying and slashing trough the bloodblades themselves

Shockwave calculation is complete nonsense, because Ubuyashiki took damage through communication with crows

that's a demonstrably false statement, the crows were killed on multiple occasions and in none of them was the damage transfered to the children, only when the quite explicit long ranged attack from muzan was initiated that they were damaged and franky attributing to the crows is disingenuous at best, it's a speculation backed with no evidence

edit: sorry for parroting the same points, i didn't see the posts that addressed your arguments

 

[KnyRaizn]

I have nothing against Douma's feat, but I disagree with the other two calculations.

Gyutaro's final attack is an ultimatum and no one scales up to it. I've been watching that season for a long time, and as far as I remember, getting hit by one of those red splashes was deadly for Tengen and Tanjiro.

Shockwave calculation is complete nonsense, because Ubuyashiki took damage through communication with crows, as Dark has already noted. We don't even really see the actual destruction to apply the explosion formula. No one in the mansion noticed the shock wave because it simply wasn't there.

Ubuyashiki doesn't take damage from the crows but it's simply the Shockwave that gets there. Also every upm who is narratively stronger than Gyutaro scales to that attack

 

[JnSteHar002]

No it wouldn’t. Even just 8-A requires the creation of 54 billion kilograms of material, what Zohakuten actually created would be lucky to count as Building level through the creation feat alone.

Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong circumstances, but I remember that a feat of creating a single bullet would be enough to reach town level or higher

 

[Passersby]

Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong circumstances, but I remember that a feat of creating a single bullet would be enough to reach town level or higher

i don't remember the exact measurements but that's using the E= mc^2 formula to convert mass to energy (E = energy m = mass c = speed of light)

the formula isn't used on the wiki however

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong circumstances, but I remember that a feat of creating a single bullet would be enough to reach town level or higher

That would be the case only if there is a good enough reason to use the mass-energy equivalence formula (E = mc²), like an explicit statement of that being the process which is taking place. For most cases, creation feats are handled using this criteria.

 

[Epyriel]

Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong circumstances, but I remember that a feat of creating a single bullet would be enough to reach town level or higher

Those kinds of crazy high results are only possible through using the Mass-Energy Equivalence formula, which VSBW only permits in the very narrow cases where it is explicitly referenced (since most of the time it just generates extreme outliers).

The vast majority of creation feats are covered using the Creation Feats Mass Table which is based on the general size of the objects created and ties that to the corresponding tiers for destroying objects of similar size.

I believe Xaro calculated the dragons to be about 80 thousand kilograms, which would actually only give Wall level.

 

[JnSteHar002]

Yep, mistook mass-energy conversion for creation; my bad

 

[NikHelton]

Ubuyashiki didn't take damage before because the crows were killed. However, this time the shock wave went through the seal. Moreover, the seals themselves can be a burden for a child.

1 psi is enough to knock out the windows. However, there is no damage to the building and even the sheets of paper remain untouched.

Let's not distort my thoughts. Tengen and Rengoku's father should not have taken damage, but they would have definitely felt the shock wave if there was one.

Now the interesting part. The shock wave weakens with distance. If this is a Low 7-B explosion, then there should be collateral damage at the epicenter and this is definitely not the 3 meter radius crater that we have.

If we assume that the pressure was 1 psi over the entire area of the explosion, then you should multiply this pressure by the surface area of the body. In this case, the result will not be even close to 7 tier

 

[Saqphire]

Agree with everything

 

[NikHelton]

As for Gyutaro's feat, it was done in a few seconds and with multiple sickles at once.
This can be attributed to environmental destruction, but it does not apply to striking power and should not be scaled to durability.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Ubuyashiki didn't take damage before because the crows were killed. However, this time the shock wave went through the seal. Moreover, the seals themselves can be a burden for a child.

Do you have sources for the seals working like that?

As for Gyutaro's feat, it was done in a few seconds and with multiple sickles at once.
This can be attributed to environmental destruction, but it does not apply to striking power and should not be scaled to durability.

The number of sickles doesn't matter if he is launching them simultaneously or as part of one attack.

 

[Epyriel]

Ubuyashiki didn't take damage before because the crows were killed. However, this time the shock wave went through the seal. Moreover, the seals themselves can be a burden for a child.

This is such a stretch it is bordering on writing fanfiction.

1 psi is enough to knock out the windows. However, there is no damage to the building and even the sheets of paper remain untouched.

Where was the new HQ shown to have glass windows? It is literally just a hut in the woods. Meanwhile have you tried cutting paper with a roomwide change in pressure? That ain’t easy. Especially at such low pressures it would scatter paper at most, not damage it.

Let's not distort my thoughts. Tengen and Rengoku's father should not have taken damage, but they would have definitely felt the shock wave if there was one.

Why assume they didn’t? Shinjuro clearly immediately jumped to an attack having reach the woods.

Now the interesting part. The shock wave weakens with distance. If this is a Low 7-B explosion, then there should be collateral damage at the epicenter and this is definitely not the 3 meter radius crater that we have.

If we assume that the pressure was 1 psi over the entire area of the explosion, then you should multiply this pressure by the surface area of the body. In this case, the result will not be even close to 7 tier

Considering the pressure wave was launched hemispherically oriented upwards you would expect less damage at their feet.
Also the author was hardly doing the math such that the damage falloff was exactly a match for the expected realworld equivalent at every distance marker away from the epicentre. However the long ranged nature of the attack was explicitly intended and similar circumstances for calculations are already widely accepted on site across a variety of other verses as highlighted above.

 

[Epyriel]

As for Gyutaro's feat, it was done in a few seconds and with multiple sickles at once.
This can be attributed to environmental destruction, but it does not apply to striking power and should not be scaled to durability.

It covered ~260m far faster than MHS and MHS+ characters could outrun it - far under 1 second. The fact it is multiple sickles at once matters not; it is part of the same contiguous attack. That is like saying an explosion can’t be counted because it destroys things with a large number of shrapnel pieces.

Considering the established Non-Physical Energy System for Blood Demon Arts and the precedent for them being able to redistribute their power and the fact Demons have infinite stamina thus can do so a full strength indefinitely means you can’t weasel your way out of it similarly applying to Striking Strength when blood blades were repeatedly intercepted by physical blows, while they are definitely distributed evenly enough to count for Durability when withstanding the final release.

 

[NikHelton]

Do you have sources for the seals working like that?

And you will ignore the fact that the pressure at which windows break did not blow away a single piece of paper and did not affect the wooden walls.

The number of sickles doesn't matter if he is launching them simultaneously or as part of one attack.

If I destroy a wall with 4 bombs and you block one bomb, you will scale to 1/4 of the wall.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Ubuyashiki didn't take damage before because the crows were killed. However, this time the shock wave went through the seal. Moreover, the seals themselves can be a burden for a child.

So the crows weren’t killed by Muzan’s shockwave? That seems like another unfounded assumption, and we actually get to see one of these crows laying on the ground in a blood puddle showing no signs of life after the shockwave, and coincidentally enough, we don’t see any more crows for the rest of the battle. Even if they weren’t killed this time, what exactly does that have to do with damage transmission? The crows must have taken damage on every occasion before getting killed, damage which should have reflected (according to you), but still didn’t.
The crows aren’t even the key point here, Yushiro’s talismans are the only thing that share some connection with the Ubuyashiki siblings, the crows were just carrying them around, so whether the crows were killed or not is unimportant. And again, every other single instance of the talismans being destroyed show no damage transmission at all.
Once again you have provided no evidence to support your claim of damage being transmitted through Yushiro’s BDA, instead you made up an ad hoc hypothesis to patch your faulty initial assumption, both being quite baseless.​

1 psi is enough to knock out the windows. However, there is no damage to the building and even the sheets of paper remain untouched.

1 psi would shatter a glass window, although I don’t remember there being any at the mansion. Again, 1 psi won’t cause any visible damage to a wood building, and I don’t get your point about the paper sheets, have you ever punched a paper sheet with all your might? Does break into pieces or just wrinkles a little?
​

Let's not distort my thoughts. Tengen and Rengoku's father should not have taken damage, but they would have definitely felt the shock wave if there was one.

What exactly is the point here? How does Shinjuro or Tengen not talking about the shockwave prove it didn’t reach the mansion? For instance, someone could slap me in the face and me not screaming in pain doesn’t means it didn’t hurt.
I think you’re misunderstanding the implication here. No shockwave means no mention, this is:
No shockwave ⇒ No mention.
But this is a one-way implication, the reverse doesn’t necessarily hold true, that’s to say:
No mention ⇏ No shockwave.​

Now the interesting part. The shock wave weakens with distance. If this is a Low 7-B explosion, then there should be collateral damage at the epicenter and this is definitely not the 3 meter radius crater that we have.

This was also addressed before, it really feels like you’re not reading :/ But anyways, I’ll copy and paste what I said to DarkRuler:

The calculation for Muzan’s shockwave is not based on the destruction it caused, but the effects it had at a long distance. That is, the feat wasn’t quantified in terms of the amount of destruction it caused, but the characteristics of the shockwave.
There are also quite a few other examples of shockwave feats where the yield does not match the destruction they caused, and there seemed to be no complaints about that:​

• Here the yield from a shockwave was calculated at 1.71 kilotons of TNT, that’s over 150 MOABs, but there was no visible damage aside from a few glass panels breaking.​
• In this blog the yield from the shockwave was calculated at 1.74 megatons of TNT, that’s in the tier of a modern nuclear weapon, but the shockwave only caused some minor damage to its surroundings.​
• Here the blast was calculated at 17.3 megatons of TNT (modern nuke tier again), which should have caused some visible damage to the mountain, though that didn’t happen.​
• And here the yield was calculated at 897 megatons of TNT, over 15 times more powerful than the Tsar bomba. The blast was strong enough to delete the city where the characters were located, but of course that didn’t happen.​

(All these calculations are either on their corresponding verse pages or character profiles, if not both).
Is there any particular reason for Muzan’s shockwave to be treated in a different way?
Furthermore, no page on the wiki states that the destruction caused by an attack should be proportional to the energy it releases. For that matter a lot of feats would become unusable, like this one where the yield was calculated at 15 kilotons of TNT even though the character who performed the feat barely made a hole in the ground.

The truth is that Muzan's calculation simply doesn’t transgress any of these rules and follows the same structure as many other accepted and implemented calculations.​

As for Gyutaro's feat, it was done in a few seconds and with multiple sickles at once.

Nehz already said it, the attack was a simultaneous release of many blades, which in the end constitutes one single attack. On the other hand, the possibility of the attack happening in a few seconds is irrelevant, an explosion could also take some seconds before achieving its full size.
​

This can be attributed to environmental destruction, but it does not apply to striking power and should not be scaled to durability.

I really don’t understand what Environmental Destruction has to do here. Here is what the page says:​

Environmental Destruction describes a character's capability to damage and destroy an area around themselves, but not necessarily their capacity to realistically harm their opponent. In practice, this is essentially a non-combat applicable Attack Potency; if a character is able to cause weather phenomena or natural disasters without any reasoning that can support their other statistics being at this level of destructive potency, then they should have trouble or lack the capacity to use these powers to damage characters in comparable tiers.

That is not to say environmental destruction feats cannot be applied to Attack Potency, Durability, and Striking Strength by any means. This is merely the result of case-by-case analysis, and depending on the context of the feat, may be a defining feat of a verse in question.​

Gyutaro’s feat is pretty straightforward, he’s not causing any sort of natural disaster or weather phenomena, he used his BDA to destroy a large portion of a town, and we know that he in fact can use the same amount of power into any of his other techniques since BDAs are a Non-Physical Energy System. This really isn’t much different from a Ki blast or a Biju bomb being capable of causing massive destruction, with both cases scaling AP.​

 

[Passersby]

And you will ignore the fact that the pressure at which windows break did not blow away a single piece of paper and did not affect the wooden walls

Nik, quite frankly, at this point it just seems like you're ignoring the arguments repeating the same already dealt with points while looking for excuses to argue against the presented feats, and that's ignoring you're moving the goalpost like everyone here is none the wiser


A structure especially in thick planks or structural beams can withstand much higher pressures than 1 psi without breaking because that’s far below the pressure needed to shatter or splinter wood


And even then the fact remained that pressure objectively reached a treshhold necessary to wound the children enough to cause internal bleeding

No matter how much you want to weasel your way out with headcanon and random speculations this isn't going to change


I will see if I can deal with the other points later today, i hate typing in my phone

 

[Nehz_XZX]

And you will ignore the fact that the pressure at which windows break did not blow away a single piece of paper and did not affect the wooden walls.

If I destroy a wall with 4 bombs and you block one bomb, you will scale to 1/4 of the wall.

I'm content to leave arguing the parts that I haven't quoted from you to other people. I'll take the fact that you are deflecting to something that I haven't addressed as confirmation that you don't have any sources until you prove otherwise by linking them here.

If you can generate 4 explosions at once to hit one single target as an attack, then that is how strong that one single attack is which in turn is what we would use for scaling. Attacks that would be weaker because of the way they work or statements that have been made about them would of course be treated accordingly.

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

And you will ignore the fact that the pressure at which windows break did not blow away a single piece of paper and did not affect the wooden walls.

It seems like you’re just avoiding Nehz’s question here. Would you mind giving a proper answer?
It actually looked like the Yushiro’s talismans were scattered across the tables they were on, one of them even flipped over. And I think this really is a minor detail, the narrative is explicit enough to take over, as there simply was no realistic way in which the attack could have injured Kiriya other than the shockwave reaching all the way to the mansion, while the databook further reinforces the notion of this attack being long ranged.
And why do you even keep insisting on the shockwave being capable of noticeably affecting the building? You’d need a shockwave with an overpressure of at least 1.8 psi to destroy wooden doors or windows, not even the structure of the building itself; while the overpressure at the mansion was fairly lower than that.
​

If I destroy a wall with 4 bombs and you block one bomb, you will scale to 1/4 of the wall.

The main reason Tengen has his durability scaled to the potency of Gyutaro’s attack is because he was able to parry his blood blades through sheer strength, if his durability was much lower than the power of Gyutaro’s attacks, his arms should have been ripped off or broken (Newton’s 3rd law). The fact that he survived Gyutaro’s final attack is secondary.​

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Follow

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

This looks very good

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I took a quick look at the CRT. The calculations and their application logic seem fine. I can't say I like KNY that much, but I can't deny the upgrades just because I don't like them.

 

[NikHelton]

I'm content to leave arguing the parts that I haven't quoted from you to other people. I'll take the fact that you are deflecting to something that I haven't addressed as confirmation that you don't have any sources until you prove otherwise by linking them here.

If you can generate 4 explosions at once to hit one single target as an attack, then that is how strong that one single attack is which in turn is what we would use for scaling. Attacks that would be weaker because of the way they work or statements that have been made about them would of course be treated accordingly.

I don't have the ability to keep track of all the topics when I'm responding to 4 people at the same time.

My assumption about the load on the seals makes much more sense than that it was caused by an explosion that, for some unknown reason, caused no damage at the epicenter and caused no consequences at the starting point.

The sheets were not turned over by the shock wave. Except that Ubuyashiki turned them over when he felt unwell. The rest of the paper was not touched, none of those present commented on the appearance of the shock wave. You say that these are artistic flaws, but these would be the only facts indicating the real existence of this shock wave.

Either the shock wave is stronger at the epicenter and we should have more damage there, which we don't really see.
Or it was uniform over the entire area, but in this case it is impossible to scale 7-tier to it.

I suggest we invite other members of the calculation group to comment on this.

 

[Damage3245]

As for Gyutaro's feat, it was done in a few seconds and with multiple sickles at once.
This can be attributed to environmental destruction, but it does not apply to striking power and should not be scaled to durability.

If the feat was the result of multiple attacks then it seems obvious that it shouldn't be used to scale for a single attack from Gyutaro, true.

 

[NikHelton]

If the feat was the result of multiple attacks then it seems obvious that it shouldn't be used to scale for a single attack from Gyutaro, true.

Here we see that Gyotaro releases thousands of sickles, each of which destroys the building. However, none of them hits the characters.

It's similar to how Gatling destroyed the building in the battle against Garou. However, this does not mean that if someone hits 1 of his bullets, he will scale to the value of the building.

 

[NikHelton]

If the feat was the result of multiple attacks then it seems obvious that it shouldn't be used to scale for a single attack from Gyutaro, true.

What are you think about shockwave?

 

[Damage3245]

What are you think about shockwave?

I agree the Small City calc is flawed; there's no evidence that Muzan made a shockwave that reached 20+ km in radius. One of the characters there even thinks that it is impossible that Muzan's attack reached them there. If a shockwave had just ripped through that room, then he wouldn't be thinking that as he'd know that the attack reached them there conventionally.

Plus there's the obvious issue of a Small City level blast going off in the city, yet the surroundings are unaffected which casts doubt on the shockwave being that powerful enough to hurt people at a far distance yet have minimal effects up close.

 

[Livinmeme]

It doesn't make sense, you tell me that a ******* nuclear bomb tier attack was drop, and the surroundings are totally fine? You know how ******* insane a 4+ megaton attack would be?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

My assumption about the load on the seals makes much more sense than that it was caused by an explosion that, for some unknown reason, caused no damage at the epicenter and caused no consequences at the starting point.

The sheets were not turned over by the shock wave. Except that Ubuyashiki turned them over when he felt unwell. The rest of the paper was not touched, none of those present commented on the appearance of the shock wave. You say that these are artistic flaws, but these would be the only facts indicating the real existence of this shock wave.

You have no sources for the seals working like that though. You're therefore just assuming that the seals work like that with no explanation from the manga to support that.

I haven't talked about artistic flaws so this must be you getting confused by the multiple people talking with you.

If the feat was the result of multiple attacks then it seems obvious that it shouldn't be used to scale for a single attack from Gyutaro, true.

Keep in mind that NikHelton is talking about multiple sickles at once.

I agree the Small City calc is flawed; there's no evidence that Muzan made a shockwave that reached 20+ km in radius. One of the characters there even thinks that it is impossible that Muzan's attack reached them there. If a shockwave had just ripped through that room, then he wouldn't be thinking that as he'd know that the attack reached them there conventionally.

Plus there's the obvious issue of a Small City level blast going off in the city, yet the surroundings are unaffected which casts doubt on the shockwave being that powerful enough to hurt people at a far distance yet have minimal effects up close.

Does that mean that you want to presume that the attack simply had a large range with the range itself not having any particular implications for the Attack Potency? There was real tangible damage after all and no precedence or explanation for people getting damaged through the seals.

 

[NikHelton]

You have no sources for the seals working like that though. You're therefore just assuming that the seals work like that with no explanation from the manga to support that.

I haven't talked about artistic flaws so this must be you getting confused by the multiple people talking with you.

This is the same interpretation of events as the miniature nuclear bomb launched by Muzan

Keep in mind that NikHelton is talking about multiple sickles at once.

I have already explained this using the Gatling example above.

Do you know the type of rocket launchers that launch multiple 8-C rockets at once, which deal area damage and, because of their number, produce an 8-B result?

If you block one or even two missiles from this cluster attack, then you won't scale to 8-B, because it's still a lot of simultaneous attacks of a much smaller area.

Does that mean that you want to presume that the attack simply had a large range with the range itself not having any particular implications for the Attack Potency? There was real tangible damage after all and no precedence or explanation for people getting damaged through the seals.

I've explained this to you before. Even if you treat it as a real shock wave, but its power will be the same throughout the radius, it does not matter how far away you are from it - you will receive the same damage.

There's no way we can get Hashira's 7-С out of this.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

This is the same interpretation of events as the miniature nuclear bomb launched by Muzan

I have already explained this using the Gatling example above.
Do you know the type of rocket launchers that launch multiple 8-C rockets at once, which deal area damage and, because of their number, produce an 8-B result?
If you block one or even two missiles from this cluster attack, then you won't scale to 8-B, because it's still a lot of simultaneous attacks of a much smaller area.

I've explained this to you before. Even if you treat it as a real shock wave, but its power will be the same throughout the radius, it does not matter how far away you are from it - you will receive the same damage.
There's no way we can get Hashira's 7-С out of this.

I don't think that Muzan's attack itself would have anything to do with or in common with Yushiro's seals other than being from Blood Demon Arts.

It's already established that demons have infinite stamina and a Non-Physical Energy System and that is why this feat has implications for Gyutaro's Attack Potency and the scaling involving him.

You were arguing that part with the others and not with me and I'd appreciate it if you could make that differentiation.

 

[NikHelton]

It's already established that demons have infinite stamina

The biggest lie I've seen in this manga.

Not all demons can grow a new head and they get exhausted if their limbs are cut off for too long.

If they had infinite stamina, then Muzan would ignore aging and his regeneration would not become weaker.

So it's just superhuman, not infinite

You were arguing that part with the others and not with me and I'd appreciate it if you could make that differentiation.

Sorry if this offended you. Don't take it personally.

 

[Epyriel]

If the feat was the result of multiple attacks then it seems obvious that it shouldn't be used to scale for a single attack from Gyutaro, true.

Here we see that Gyotaro releases thousands of sickles, each of which destroys the building.

It was a single attack.
This is the equivalent of trying to say a grenade is actually multiple attacks that should be subdivided since it contains thousands of pieces of shrapnel. Or saying a punch is really a trillion tiny attacks from a trillion individual atoms being launched in synch. Or saying something like Sukuna’s Malevolent Shrine is actually Wall level since it generates thousands of individual slashes at once.

However, none of them hits the characters.

?
You see Tengen and Tanjiro get hit at the start of your own clip.

It's similar to how Gatling destroyed the building in the battle against Garou. However, this does not mean that if someone hits 1 of his bullets, he will scale to the value of the building.

A gatling gun fires 1 bullet at a time, not several at once.

The biggest lie I've seen in this manga.

Not all demons can grow a new head and they get exhausted if their limbs are cut off for too long.

If they had infinite stamina, then Muzan would ignore aging and his regeneration would not become weaker.

So it's just superhuman, not infinite

???
The 2nd Drug was explicitly made to nullify Muzan’s infinite stamina, that was the entire point. Demons are normally un-aging since they simply regenerate the effects of aging as they occur, but the massively accelerated aging means Muzan needed to focus more and more of his power to combat this effect in order to keep his body in combat ready shape, allowing the taxation of his combat abilities to actual exhaust him.

Infinite stamina is defined as: “Characters with inexhaustible sources of energy at their disposal, allowing them to fight indefinitely, although not necessarily allowing them to ignore crippling pain or fight on through critical injuries.”

 

[Machmatej]

The biggest lie I've seen in this manga.

Not all demons can grow a new head and they get exhausted if their limbs are cut off for too long.

Decapitation with a Nichirin sword is literally the only way to kill demon. Growing a new head has nothing to do with stamina, it's a show of power. Regeneration is seen as a symbol of power for demons. The stronger the demon is, the faster and more potent their regen is. So naturally, the strongest demons can regrow their heads if need be, leaving the sun as the only option to defeat them. And I have no idea where you got that second part from.

If they had infinite stamina, then Muzan would ignore aging and his regeneration would not become weaker.

So it's just superhuman, not infinite

This is a horrible take. Aging is meaningless for a demon due to their regeneration. In fact, it's a commonly repeated fact that demons will live forever. However, Muzan only started aging during the second stage of the drug, which was triggered after Muzan nullified the first stage which turns him into a human. Due to a demon's biology, they always keep themselves in peak condition. The accelerated aging exploited Muzan's need to maintain peak condition in battle, forcing him to use his power to resist its effects, which ended up actually exhausting him.

 

[Passersby]

The biggest lie I've seen in this manga.

according to who?

Not all demons can grow a new head and they get exhausted if their limbs are cut off for too long.

from nichirin decapitation or from regular one?
because the former is the only thing explicitly impossible for demons to do as it's their weakness otherwise every single one of them can, provide any form of tangible evidence for the bolded part

If they had infinite stamina, then Muzan would ignore aging and his regeneration would not become weaker.

you mean the same guy who explicitly said him getting tired was due to the drugs and he normally never accumulates any fatigue from regeneration?


and i have no idea if it's because multiple people are arguing with you at once but for the love of god read what they've written, you're recycling the same stuff over and over again and it's honesty a bit annoying