Deltarune: Small CRT before Chapter 5

[LittleGuy99]

Okay, we already have the release date for Chapter 5, so I'm going to add the last few things I plan to add before its release.

But before that:
Remove this from the profiles of Kris, Susie, Ralsei and Noelle. This ability does not grant more Defense:
higher with Becoming Stronger (Their DF grow stronger after every enemy they defeat with violence)

-Powers and Abilities-​

Spoiler: P&A

Ralsei CH1 | Breaking the Fourth Wall (Ralsei has more knowledge of this world and its "rules" than he lets on. Ralsei knows everything about how battles work, being the one who teaches Kris how to fight and writing a manual about it. Is implied that he knows about The Player and the SOUL, being the one who explains how it works and looking at the screen when he is told that "Kris" made Susie do an action. He knows about HP and EXP, he knows about the cursor and the attack box, he can see the TP bar, and he knows about the yellow names. He knows which items everyone can use, knows about the Save System, The Player controls and menu. He can use his knowledge about The Player to make them leave and have a private conversation with Kris) - This ability is already in the profile, but now I'm adding more information.

Lightner Physiology & Darkner Physiology | BFR (Via SPARE/RECRUITs; Peacefully removes an enemy from the battle and recruits them in the process. This is most clearly seen in cutscenes where enemies disappear after being SPAREd, such as when Ralsei used his Pacify spell on two Werewires in Chapter 2, when Susie freed two other Werewires, when Lanino and Elnina were recruited in Chapter 3, and when Gerson recruited two Gueis in Chapter 4. Putting enemies to sleep with spells like Ralsei's Pacify and Noelle's Sleep Mist automatically SPAREs/RECRUITs them)

Ralsei CH1 | Empathic Manipulation (Via Pacify and Whirl; SPARE and RECRUIT enemies without the need to convince them first. This enemy acts the same as the other RECRUITed enemies who join the Delta Warriors's Castle Town, helping them in combat, rebelling against their oppressors, and assisting them in dangerous situations)

Noelle DW | Empathic Manipulation (Via Sleep Mist; SPARE and RECRUIT enemies without the need to convince them first. This enemy acts the same as the other RECRUITed enemies who join the Delta Warriors's Castle Town, helping them in combat, rebelling against their oppressors, and assisting them in dangerous situations)

Kris & Susie CH4 | Empathic Manipulation (Via Whirl; SPARE and RECRUIT enemies without the need to convince them first. This enemy acts the same as the other RECRUITed enemies who join the Delta Warriors's Castle Town, helping them in combat, rebelling against their oppressors, and assisting them in dangerous situations)

Delta Warriors | Empathic Manipulation (Via Pacify and Whirl; SPARE and RECRUIT enemies without the need to convince them first. This enemy acts the same as the other RECRUITed enemies who join the Delta Warriors's Castle Town, helping them in combat, rebelling against their oppressors, and assisting them in dangerous situations)

Darkner Physiology | Energy Manipulation & Fusionism (By giving their energies while merging with each other and with machinery to create the Thrash Machine)

Tenna | Reality Warping (Can change the background with a snap, can completely change the scenery and its surroundings, and can make it completely dark. Can move everyone around this way. Can make objects appear out of thin air. Can make an audience appear and disappear, some having Tenna heads. He can emerge unscathed after being crushed, being destroyed by a laser and blown up twice) - This ability is already in the profile, but now I'm adding more information.

Tenna | Flight (Can move like this in the air, and here he is hovering above the Delta Warriors before falling)

Tenna | Text Manipulation (He makes the credits text appear and can interact directly with them)

Tenna | Afterimage Creation (Can create blue afterimages)

Tenna | Memory Manipulation (Can project his memories)

Berdly | Limited Summoning (Berdly can summon two Werewires to fight alongside him, but only in the Cyber World)

"Mike" | Summoning (Small Mike can summon multiple Friends In the Battat minigame)

Kris CH2, Noelle DW & Spamton | Mind Manipulation (Via the ThornRing. Induces a trance in the wearer with the "Trance" effect. Noelle acquires the title "Ice Trancer" encouraging her to keep following orders and kill enemies to the point of not recognizing Berdly, and ultimately failing to resist)

-Inventory-​

I'm going to make a general change to the inventories, which only involves changing some names and links
Some item links and names were updated to better reflect the names in game, so I'm forced to change them here as well

Example: Before deltarune.wiki/w/Thorn_Ring Now deltarune.wiki/w/ThornRing

Other than that, everything will remain the same except for these new additions:

Spoiler: Optional Equipment

Kris (Light World)

• Thorn: Unknown AT. Light World counterpart to the ThornRing from Chapter 2. - Kris has it in Chapter 4
• Chocolate Bottle: Used by Kris in the kitchen to knock out the SOUL. From Chapter 4.
• Hockey Puck: Used by Kris in Dess's room to knock out the SOUL. From Chapter 4.
• Hockey Stick: Used by Kris in Dess's room to keep the SOUL at bay. From Chapter 4.

Kris (Dark World Chapter 1)

• Manual: Ralsei's handmade book full of various tips and tricks. Can be used against several enemies to make them tired. Only in this Chapter.

Kris (Dark World Chapter 3)

• Lancers: Multiple Lancers obtained from the Ball Machine. But disappears upon exiting the room. Stackable as much as the Key Items space allows.

Susie, Ralsei and Kris (Dark World Chapter 3)

• TensionMax: Raises TP to full in battle. - I overlooked this item before for some reason.

Berdly (Dark World)

• Bumper Car: Used in his first battle (And many others)

 

[Axorandom0]

Minor correction: hockey puck not hockey ball

 

[LittleGuy99]

Minor correction: hockey puck not hockey ball

Updated You can tell that I don't know anything about sports lmao

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Lightner Physiology & Darkner Physiology | BFR (Via SPARE/RECRUITs; Peacefully removes an enemy from the battle and recruits them in the process. This is most clearly seen in cutscenes where enemies disappear after being SPAREd, such as when Ralsei used his Pacify spell on two Werewires in Chapter 2, when Susie freed two other Werewires, when Lanino and Elnina were recruited in Chapter 3, and when Gerson recruited two Gueis in Chapter 4. Putting enemies to sleep with spells like Ralsei's Pacify and Noelle's Sleep Mist automatically SPAREs/RECRUITs them)

I really don't think the Recruit animation is meant to convey anything beyond the Darkners simply leaving.
Obviously, for the sake of convenience, the game isn't going to make us sit there for five seconds watching every recruited enemy slowly walk off-screen, nor is it going to spawn a sleeping Darkner as a permanent obstacle on the map every time we use Pacify or Sleep Mist. I know the argument is that the animation also appears in Cutscenes, but it's not even a consistent thing, the Shadowguys being recruited just has them walk out of the room sooo

The whole Pacify/Sleep Mist automatically causes RECRUIT and therefore BFR also has a big counter example with our favorite King (Man he sure loves screwing with DR CRTs lol) where Pacify simply puts him to sleep, and nothing else. He doesn't move, get recruited or whatever, so clearly it isn't supposed to be diegetic.

Ralsei CH1 | Empathic Manipulation (Via Pacify and Whirl; SPARE and RECRUIT enemies without the need to convince them first. This enemy acts the same as the other RECRUITed enemies who join the Delta Warriors's Castle Town, helping them in combat, rebelling against their oppressors, and assisting them in dangerous situations)

Noelle DW | Empathic Manipulation (Via Sleep Mist; SPARE and RECRUIT enemies without the need to convince them first. This enemy acts the same as the other RECRUITed enemies who join the Delta Warriors's Castle Town, helping them in combat, rebelling against their oppressors, and assisting them in dangerous situations)

Kris & Susie CH4 | Empathic Manipulation (Via Whirl; SPARE and RECRUIT enemies without the need to convince them first. This enemy acts the same as the other RECRUITed enemies who join the Delta Warriors's Castle Town, helping them in combat, rebelling against their oppressors, and assisting them in dangerous situations)

Delta Warriors | Empathic Manipulation (Via Pacify and Whirl; SPARE and RECRUIT enemies without the need to convince them first. This enemy acts the same as the other RECRUITed enemies who join the Delta Warriors's Castle Town, helping them in combat, rebelling against their oppressors, and assisting them in dangerous situations)

This also feels pretty game mechanicy. For one, the example being used is Werewires, you know Plugboys under Queen's control who get freed once you put them to sleep? Obviously they'd be grateful and help you after the fact. Stuff like this is a pretty common trend among the Darkners you're specifically required to Pacify.

The other thing we have to remember is that, in UT you can also go through all of Pacifist and have all the monsters come to help you, even if you only spared them by beating them within an inch of their lives before letting them run away. So like yeah, I know Toby accounts for a lot of possibilities, but still come on, you can't expect him to account for every single one lol. This is definitely one of those cases.

Plus, once again, King is a pretty blatant counterexample since even after we Pacified him, he still hates our guts sooo

Other than that, some of the Tenna might fit better as Toon Force, but yeah it's fine.

 

[LittleGuy99]

I really don't think the Recruit animation is meant to convey anything beyond the Darkners simply leaving.
Obviously, for the sake of convenience, the game isn't going to make us sit there for five seconds watching every recruited enemy slowly walk off-screen, nor is it going to spawn a sleeping Darkner as a permanent obstacle on the map every time we use Pacify or Sleep Mist. I know the argument is that the animation also appears in Cutscenes, but it's not even a consistent thing, the Shadowguys being recruited just has them walk out of the room sooo

The whole Pacify/Sleep Mist automatically causes RECRUIT and therefore BFR also has a big counter example with our favorite King (Man he sure loves screwing with DR CRTs lol) where Pacify simply puts him to sleep, and nothing else. He doesn't move, get recruited or whatever, so clearly it isn't supposed to be diegetic.

Strange, I swore we all agreed this was BFR?
I don't really see anything that goes against it outside of the Shadowguys, which is just an exception
And well, speaking of the case of the King with Pacify and chapter 1 in general, I would not take it into account because chapter 1 was just a demo that did not have most of the mechanics or ideas of the following chapters. It is the most inconsistent Chapter in general.

For me, the fact that this happens in cutscenes is enough proof until the opposite is truly proven, there are more cases where they disappear than those where they don't

This also feels pretty game mechanicy. For one, the example being used is Werewires, you know Plugboys under Queen's control who get freed once you put them to sleep? Obviously they'd be grateful and help you after the fact. Stuff like this is a pretty common trend among the Darkners you're specifically required to Pacify.

The other thing we have to remember is that, in UT you can also go through all of Pacifist and have all the monsters come to help you, even if you only spared them by beating them within an inch of their lives before letting them run away. So like yeah, I know Toby accounts for a lot of possibilities, but still come on, you can't expect him to account for every single one lol. This is definitely one of those cases.

Plus, once again, King is a pretty blatant counterexample since even after we Pacified him, he still hates our guts sooo

I understand this
King is proof of the opposite but... the only one too. I can also say that he gets in a good mood at the end, and well after chapter 1 he is more willing to talk but that may not be here or there (Also you could say that he has resistance)

I agree with what you say about UT, but only in the part about Toby not taking into account SPARE enemies after hitting them.

But I don't think that's entirely the case with DR, the tornado case makes me think it's really something more, that and including that pacify SPAREs all types of enemies with different personalities and stuff, I can't just dismiss it by saying it's game mechanics, I need something more congruent

Maybe I can change it to Minor Empathic Manipulation
Chapter 5 might change my mind tho

Other than that, some of the Tenna might fit better as Toon Force, but yeah it's fine.

Should I change it to Toon Force? Makes sense, but I want to know if that's what you meant

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Strange, I swore we all agreed this was BFR?
I don't really see anything that goes against it outside of the Shadowguys, which is just an exception

Another problem is like, BFR where? Outside the room? Lanino and Elnina literally meet up with Tenna not even two rooms after we "poof" them away.
Functionally, the exact same thing would've happened if they'd simply walked off to the right.

That and the convenience argument still does apply to cutscenes, say for example you had the two Plugboys slowly shuffle out of the room during the Susie and Noelle bonding moment, it would've been pretty goofy ya know? It's much cleaner to just have them disappear and move on with the scene.

I'd be more willing to buy the Ch1 is just outdated argument if the animation had only been introduced in Ch2 and onward, but nah it's always been always a thing.
Don't you think if Toby actually intended for it to be BFRing Darkners away, it would've been treated that way from the moment he added it?

I understand this
King is proof of the opposite but... the only one too. I can also say that he gets in a good mood at the end, and well after chapter 1 he is more willing to talk but that may not be here or there (Also you could say that he has resistance)

King is cynical toward Lightners because he's been hurt by them before, and obvs he's been hearing about how we’ve been helping Darkners and all that, so it makes sense for him to soften up, if a bit. This is IF we recruit the Darkners.

What happens if we don't?

I agree with what you say about UT, but only in the part about Toby not taking into account SPARE enemies after hitting them.

But I don't think that's entirely the case with DR, the tornado case makes me think it's really something more, that and including that pacify SPAREs all types of enemies with different personalities and stuff, I can't just dismiss it by saying it's game mechanics, I need something more congruent

The tornado ain't really that different than say, sparing all the Temmies you encounter by having Aaron scare them away. Both aren't a required thing.

Honestly one real egregious example is Monster Kid. They explicitly say that they don't want to talk to you again if you try to fight Undyne instead of saving them, and yet still show up to help you in the Pacifist ending anyway. Like sometimes shit ain't going to make sense lol

Should I change it to Toon Force? Makes sense, but I want to know if that's what you meant

Most of them do fit as Reality Warping, really just these fall more under Toon Force to me.

He can emerge unscathed after being crushed, being destroyed by a laser and blown up twice.