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Jackythejack

They/Them
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This should, hopefully, be my last Dead Rising CRT for a while, and oh boy is it going to be a big one. We'rw Gonna be touching up on the topics of 9-A Frank West (with more evidence than previous), ability additions, and an entire new key change. Let's begin.

Ability Additions

So within Dead Rising 4 there is a very obvious skill tree that you can go down. This skill tree gives Frank a couple of things. I'll list them off real quick.

Theres the resistance abilities, which give Frank resistance against all elemental weapons. The elemental weapons in-game are electricity, acid, fire, and ice. Therefor, Frank should get Fire, Ice, Acid, and Electricity Resistance

Next up is an ability that decreases the amount of damage from both bullets and any melee weapon at all. Because of this, Frank should get Damage Reduction

The next thing is an ability called Evasion. Evasion gives a small chance that an attack deals no damage. This is either Damage Negation or Instinctive Reaction. Of course, it'd be limited but I'll let what that is be up for debate.

Now let's talk about that new key, eh?

Frank Rising

Frank Rising is the DLC for Dead Rising 4 which contains the canonical ending. Frank becomes a zombie, and because he's a zombie he gets some special perks. I'm gonna run through them real quick as they're very simple.

Healing: Frank can heal based off biting into a person's neck and effectively killing them. This isn't very combat applicable but he also has Regenerationn in this form that'd put him at mid-low, so both of those should be added.

Acid Manipulation: Well, technically Frank just shoots out his own bile, but it damages enemies and causes severe pain, and acts similarly to acid in-game so it could qualify for this. Or perhaps Natural Weaponry?

Sound Manipulation: Frank also has a roar that is powerful enough to push cars away and can kill enemies in a single hit. Very, very powerful.

Immortality: Likely type 1 (zombies never age), Type 2 (zombies take a lot of punishment going off fodder zombies), type 7 (the undead one), and possibly type 3 but I'm iffy on that because I dunno how we'd deal with that Regenerationn that activates in-game when you're close to 0 hp/dying.

Resistance: Mostly resistance to disease as the game outright states that zombies can't catch any diseases, so this is good.

Also the zombie form would have incredibly high stamina, higher than Frank's baseform most likely as it doesn't even need stamina to sprint. I'd argue limitless but I dunno.

Intelligence would also stay the same and whatnot. If anymore questions are needed feel free to ask. Onto the main event...

9-A Dead Rising

Now, I know what you're probably thinking. "Again? We've been through this once before. How many times do we gotta teach you this lesson?!" However, before you go all GoW CRT on me, let's discuss.

Before I said that Frank scales to his rocket launchers, which were called 9-A at the time. However, what I didn't think about at the time was that things can take hits from the Exo Suits. They can take a lot of hits.

Frank himself can take much damage from the Exo suits in-game. And when he's hit without his Exo-suit on by Calder, it doesn't even do critical damage. Barely even one hundred damage, and that's just Calder. Frank can also withstand being punched repeatedly by Exo-suits, and even had himself slammed down on an Exo-suit's knee on more than one occasion.

He isn't the only one either. Both looters and evolved zombies can take several hits from an exosuit before going down, and Frank can kill looters and Evolved Zombies. It just takes some time becuase Evolved Zombies are annoying.

Now you may be thinking "What if not all Exo Suits are 9-A though? What if it's only Calder's?" Well, Calder was never stated to have any fancier or more powerful suit. He just happens to be equipped with a standard issue Exo Suit, and not only that, but that's also imply that Frank somehow was lucky enough to wind up with another incredibly strong Exo suit close by, which is a lot of assumptions to go off of.

Frank can take hits from, and can damage, Exo suits, and he kills people who often do the same. Therefor, the conclusion is that Frank West, and all the DR characters due to scaling (In Nick and Greene's case they are younger than old frank and Frank outright stated he's out of shape, implying he's weaker than the normal person), should be ranked at 9-A

If any questions are had I'll try my best to answer them, but let's get going.
 
The abilities seem alright. Probably just acid manip and not natural weaponry, but natural weaponry is a totally unnecessary ability to have on the wiki anyway so who cares.

Type 3 wouldn't really be applicable, it'd probably just be regen.

Tier seems fine.

It's bad that all this comes from the worst game in the series.
 
Really bad and really unhappy it comes from the worst game.

But you know we'll work with what we got
 
Shooting Acid is acid manipulation, evading attacks would be limited instinctive reaction

If he can take several blows from Exo Suits, 9-A should be fine

Type 3 is more just being unable to die because you regenerate it off, so it wouldn't work too well
 
Alright soooo type 3 is out, he's have limited Instinctive Reaction and shooting acid is cool. Okay.

So far this is looking good.
 
I mean do you wish to provide a proper argument besides just "Exo suits?"

Because if you have a major objection feel free to speak your mind.
 
Seems to inconsistent and doesn't make general sense with hisnother feats. Surviving them seems more PIS air Game mechanic. Considering if he could actually survive good hits from those things and is stronger than people who can injure him. Then he should be able to at least cause a decent amount of damage to the Exo suit. Which he can't. It's practically nothing. Doesn't feel right to scale him up based on a suit that's vastly stronger than he is. Especially when other feats and calcs put him vastly lower.
 
I mean, backscaling is also a thing, tbf. It could put him very high into 9-B.

Though I do agree with that. I am personally incredibly on the fence with 9-A frank, though I do feel that it's totally possible.
 
At very best. I think it could Maybe be put under Possibly 9-A physically. But that's the absolute best I would give it. And I'm still ehhh on it. Considering feats and such. It's either PIS or Game mechanics that he survives it. If he was actually durable enough to take a casual hit from it, then he should be able to at least do minor damage cause of durability scaling. But he doesn't even really do that. He is just too low. (Even with my get which hit close to the millions on Joules. Though it didn't get accepted. No idea why tho).

As for Backscaling him to higher in the 9-B. Ehhh: that's really hard to say. We don't know exactly how much weaker cause his physical attacks do practically no damage. I think it's best to rely on the feats we know of like the RPG consuming a smaller building.
 
I don't remember his physical attacks doing no damage, now. I remember him actually doing decent damage. That might be a little underselling.

But yeah I do feel like possibly 9-A physically is personally more preferable for me.

And I mean we're the only Dead Rising supporters
 
Not no damage. I mean practically none. From what I remember and also what I also Recall Jason bringing up when talking about Fresno scaling when he made the small building feat is that you basically have to spam heavily to see any actual damage start showing.

I won't fully fight against it. Though I'm not for even a Possibly 9-A.

Yea. Unfortunately. Not a lot of feats to calc. The best is the RPG. And electricity. Both were covered except the Buildinf consuming RPG. Which while I did. Something must have been really off about it cause it got shot down quickly. And without something to push him higher into the 9-B. I don't feel safe putting him close to 9-A from a feat that's likely more game mechanic.
 
I swear I don't remember that much having to be done to kill them...and I've played through the game quite a bit...unfortunately.

You don't realize that I had to spend ten dollars on an hour and a half of DLC.

This CRT basically caps off my anger and disappointment

If we can both be fine with possibly though it might be chill. I'll have to test the Exo suit shit tomorrow.
 
Bumpo.

I was unable to test the Exo suit stuff but I do think after some more recollection that a possibly 9-A would be the best for Frank at the moment becuase jim damaging and taking hits from them could be game mechanics or PIS, but at the same time it's difficult to tell considering how it's a bit consistent. It's very much a grey area. I want to see what others think
 
Oh. Sorry. Forgot i was apart of this


And I just can't see it. It seems a lot more game mechanic than it is a feat. I love frank. But I just can't see it. The bit of consistency only seems like PIS and Game Mechanics. I'm skeptical at best for a possibly rank. But if others take your side for a possibly key being ok. Then i wont fight it.
 
The resistances seems fine.

Damage reduction is probably fine.

Instinctive reaction is a more extreme ability than occasionally evading attacks, so that is not fine.

Regenerationn seems fine.

Acid manipulation and sound manipulation seem fine.

Immortality types 2 and 7 seems fine, but not the others. Being completely immune to aging and erosion for trillions of years is not something characteristic for decomposing zombies, and should preferably probably not be used for the undead in the first place.

Resistance to disease seems fine.

9-A by scaling from exo suits is probably fine, unless it is Game Mechanics.
 
Alright, thanks Ant. If it's no problem then, I can add these, maybe with a possibly for 9-A, because whether it's game mechanics or not is under a bit of debate.

But if we have no other problems, these can be added
 
You can probably add it then, yes.
 
Woah. Dude. Check the profile cause you did something wrong. There's like two summarizes and his notable victories and losses also are doubled.


Also you shouldn't have added the possibly 9-A. It's still hasn't been agreed that it's not game mechanic. I'm still against it being anything other than that. Especially when other calced feats put him vastly below it.
 
I mean a majority of the other people agreed on it though? You seemed to be the only one to actually have issues on it.

Also yeah royally ****** up that. Changed it though. Had to copy and paste stuff becuase my browser is being fucky
 
Ant brought up it would be fine if it isn't game mechanics which never was discussed. I say it is game mechanics. And would be outlier to his normal feats regardless. And doesn't add up with his normal AP too. Too many factors against it. Highly inconsistent, very likely a game mechanic, and doesn't make sense considering.

Alrighty. Yea. It's fixed now.
 
I mean that's why it's a possibly. Too many showing have proven that Frank can hurt and have taken hits from the Exo suits. Besides I don't think it's entirely inconsistent. He can take rocket launcher blasts pretty handily.

I mean I also have my doubts which is why I personally am leaning towards the possibly.

Besides Frank's normal AP needs an upgrade too actually
 
he can take all the hits in the world. But if it's game mechanics. Then it doesn't work. His rocket launcher is a joke next to an exo suit. Just because I can take a few hundred thousand Joules with little effort. Doesn't mean I scale to an entirely new tier. It's just an inconsistency/game mechanic. And a single feat doesn't justify enough to upgrade him such a degree. (I wish it did. I've had feats I've been shot down because of it)

I'm just against it. A suit is meant to be above him by a large amount.

I mean. I tried to get him upgraded to a little over a million.
 
Why isn't he a little over a million? Realistically he should. He can consistently busts barrels and he can take hits from dynamite, which is a megajoules.

Either way you're wrong with weapons barely doing any damage to them. I've seen playthroughs of the game and, like, it's not like it does barely any damage. You can kill an Exo suit user without running out of ammo on an assault rifle.
 
I made an RPG calc on pushing him there. But the one who reviewed it did not like my pixel measurement. (No idea why. They didn't actual say)

And proof?
 
If it is game mechanics it is safer to not include the 9-A upgrade, yes.
 
Huh. Wel, either way. Dynamite is a megajoules and he can take hits from those so it should be fine. Maybe that should also be mentioned on his profile.

https://youtu.be/l_rFTtalMhM

32:40

You can see him chip away lots of damage
 
Dynamite I agree. That's very straight forward and there since game 1

By the way he aimed. That's just aiming for the body part not covered in the suit. And it wouldn't make sense at all that Rifle > Exo suit physically >>> Frank but Frank can tank a rifle. Would make it sound just like game mechanics too.
 
That's getting way too specific my dude. Damage is practically done the same everywhere, unless aiming for the head. There's another part near the one hour mark where he shoots a guy in an Exo suit with a shotgun twice and he dies, and another where Frank just kicks one of them to death and it only takes twelve hits.
 
It's inconsistent. And it makes no sense. Why would a gun that Frank is able to take several shots from be able to damage a suit that would clearly be above him. The weapons have been calced to be much weaker.
 
I mean, I dunno. I still feel like if Frank can literaly take these guys down with just kicking them, he should at least backscale or something. I dunno.
 
They weren't around to discuss the issue of it being game mechanic. They were going off if he could do it. But game mechanic was an issue I brought up later into it. Still should be discussed at the very least.
 
I am asked to comment on this.

Rocket Launcher

Not all rocket launchers are 9-A warheads, and not all rocket launchers are warheads for RPG-7. (Hell not even all RPG-7 warheads are 9-A.)

RPG launcher warheads in Dead Rising have been calculated twice to be wall level.

Freezing a human body

The ice freezing human feat thing, if we look back at it, may as well be a hax thing that this ice sword thing specifically makes a target temporarily frozen for a short time but still deals the same damage to the target.

Exo-Suits

I lean towards the fact that grunt Exo-Suit is less tough than Calder Exo-Suit. Like a pair of chopsticks are more dangerous in the hands of Bruce Lee than in our hands.

Calder

I have however explained why Exo-Suit Frank and Exo-Suit Calder are Small Building level.

I am sleeping soon, tell me to come again if you have further to discuss.
 
None of this really helps much.

Makai the ice thing is a very moot point as it's not just the ice sword that does it.
 
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