De-Compositing Shirou Emiya's profile - plus questioning some listed abilities and resistances.

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The profile.

Who decided to list the keys, then put every power into a single tabber anyways?

He should have three keys, I'll work for a sandbox on it. Each route has him have abilities and items he does not in others. Before that, however, is me questioning some stuff about the profile.

The minor stuff:

• Reinforcement shouldn't link to Type Moon wiki.
• Enhanced Senses. For one, this is only through using reinforcement to enhance his sight. It can be done casually, but it should be noted it's an on-and-off skill. Beyond that, when are we told that he can see for kilometers? You can't scale that to EMIYA, dude has trained his magic circuits and himself way beyond Shirou, is a Servant, and thus has far greater physical skills, and his Clairvoyance is a skill that lets him do it (even evolving specifically into Hawkeye in F/GO to drive this point home).
• Most I remember is him seeing Archer from hundreds of meters away, which should work (I'd personally assume it's their connection even then, but it's impossible to prove).
• Not contesting it, but is it confirmed he can use Caliburn to project energy? I thought the point was that he lacked the magical energy to use it like that.
• Why is "breaking" into bounded fields spatial manipulation? You can walk into them just fine. Like, the one the Ainsworth use would be spatial manipulation, sure, but bloodfort andromeda and what Medea deployed don't warp space far as I recall. He gets it through Cadalbolg still, but the explanation for powers matters.
• His lifting strength should be Superhuman. The whole point of it is that it is someone that is superhuman to an unknown extent...
  ...but only with reinforcement. He finds the idea of lifting one's own bodyweight shocking, and he struggles to help Otoko carry her liquor in Hollow Ataraxia. (That was technically not Shirou, but he was no weaker physically than the original - hell, he'd be stronger by virtue of being six months older)

The Big Stuff:

• Avalon. Why do we list its True Name release abilities? He himself cannot deploy it like that - it heals him, it blew away Angra's curses, it does not shatter into countless dust particles and seal him into Avalon to protect against attacks. Also, no, he cannot just project it flawlessly, we are told that he loses its image as soon as Artoria left him by Word of God, and it likely ties in with his tracing being only able to project EX ranked items if the original user allows it.
• Attack Reflection: You cannot use the Deen anime adaptation for feats.
• Scaling to Kirei. The dude was not as strong as the priest, the vn makes a point to say that he caught Kirei off-guard and won only because of that. Even with EMIYA's arm, he isn't equal to Kirei without projections despite the general boost to his body.
  I also disagree with everyone scaling to 9-A, Luvia and Rin are using reinforcement there, it would not scale to their standard AP, but that'll be another thread.

Resistances:
Mostly, as far as I can see, it's assumed he can somewhat resist every effect that people with more magical energy can resist... which I want proof on. Just because someone with 1000 magical energy can resist petrification doesn't mean someone with 10 can.

These being...

• Law Manipulation. Never interacted with any bounded field that enacts hard rules.
• Size Manipulation... I don't know the source of this ability, so it would depend on who resisted it and how Shirou stacks up to them.
• Time Stop.
• Petrification... even EMIYA gets hit with it, and we know everyone with C rank or below gets petrified 100%. In fact, Shirou himself gets petrified in the bad end just fine.
• Holy Manipulation... why would that be something he specifically resists? He isn't any more affected by it than a random dude down the street, sure, but that's because he isn't a wraith or anything like that.
• Purification. See above.
• Death Manipulation. As with Size, don't know the source of it off the top of my head.
• Deconstruction.
• Subjective Reality.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Bump, I guess.

 

[LehenDuo]

Reinforcement shouldn't link to Type Moon wiki.

Probably was done like that because the sheer amount of links would make it impossible to link to screenshots, and would make it just really ******* confusing for anyone not used to the verse.

Enhanced Senses. For one, this is only through using reinforcement to enhance his sight.

Yeah, probably shouldn't be equated to EMIYA's vision range.

Not contesting it, but is it confirmed he can use Caliburn to project energy? I thought the point was that he lacked the magical energy to use it like that.

It's Caliburn function. If it couldn't, it wouldn't be Caliburn.

Why is "breaking" into bounded fields spatial manipulation?

Almost sure it's refering to Medea's BF scene, where they also note that magical energy bursts can fracture the boundary and allow entrance. Can't recall the VN scene, but the scene in UBW is pretty clear.

His lifting strength should be Superhuman

Ther are feats where Reinforcement is never explictly mention and that are beyond human limits, but whatever the case, Reinforcement is an inherent ability of the power system of the verse, so I don't see how "but only with Reinforcement" would change anything.

Avalon. Why do we list its True Name release abilities

No idea about the true name. But Shirou doesn't lose it as Artoria left him - it's said Avalon loses its meaning when Shirou begins to roam the world or something like that.

and it likely ties in with his tracing being only able to project EX ranked items if the original user allows it.

Minor correction, but there's no such thing as "original owner" allowing or anything like that. As far as we have been shown and told, Avalon is the only EX rank Shirou has and will ever be able to project.

Attack Reflection: You cannot use the Deen anime adaptation for feats.

Why?

Scaling to Kirei.

Own body reinforcement is the most basic of basics for Magi. To say it's not their standard AP is like saying Goku using Ki isn't his standard AP.

Resistances:
Mostly, as far as I can see, it's assumed he can somewhat resist every effect that people with more magical energy can resist...

That's how Resistance works (抗魔力, the thing anyone with circuits has, not 対魔力, the Servant skill, that has been translated as Magic Resistance, but is something closer to Anti-Magic litrally). Shirou would have lesser resistance to the effects obviously, but its inherent to the system.

About the specific resistances, as I don't know what exactly they are refering to, someone else can answer.

 

[Wdinatx]

Going to just cover points that @LehenDuo didn’t answer:

Enhanced Senses. For one, this is only through using reinforcement to enhance his sight. It can be done casually, but it should be noted it's an on-and-off skill. Beyond that, when are we told that he can see for kilometers?

I don’t get the importance behind it being an on-and-off skill but you’re right about the Archer scaling being iffy. Maybe a “likely” for the UBW key that got much of his power?

Avalon

Besides what Lehen already said he was shown to be able to use it.

Scaling to Kirei

Kirei just had incomparably better Martial Arts, with it being noted in his second fight that Shirou only damaged him because he was made of swords and never actually hit him.

Just because someone with 1000 magical energy can resist petrification doesn't mean someone with 10 can.

The whole problem with it on Shirou’s page is the difference between “can resist something” and “is resistant to something.” Shirou technically resists all that but it’s minimal due to his ineptitude.

 

[LehenDuo]

Besides what Lehen already said he was shown to be able to use it.

The thing is that Avalon is only capable of being supplied by Saber, even the regneration is only possible if Saber provides the power for it.
The Avalon he has is hers, in the end.

Also, no, he cannot just project it flawlessly, we are told that he loses its image as soon as Artoria left him by Word of God,

This part is correct in that Shirou loses the ability to project Avalon if Saber leaves. Even when Saber is there, the one "shaping" the object to be projected is actually Saber, after all.
Without Saber there, Avalon is like a magic crest turned off.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Probably was done like that because the sheer amount of links would make it impossible to link to screenshots, and would make it just really ******* confusing for anyone not used to the verse.

Just put those in the Technique section, then.

It's Caliburn function. If it couldn't, it wouldn't be Caliburn.

But if Shirou can't use it like that, then it shouldn't just be listed without specifying he needs either someone to boost him, or to give it to someone else to use for it to be functional like that.

Almost sure it's refering to Medea's BF scene, where they also note that magical energy bursts can fracture the boundary and allow entrance.

Yeah, I get that, but why is doing that Spatial Manipulation in this case?

No idea about the true name. But Shirou doesn't lose it as Artoria left him - it's said Avalon loses its meaning when Shirou begins to roam the world or something like that.

He loses 'its image', making it useless beyond transforming his alignment into sword, as far as WoG tells us.

Ther are feats where Reinforcement is never explictly mention and that are beyond human limits, but whatever the case, Reinforcement is an inherent ability of the power system of the verse, so I don't see how "but only with Reinforcement" would change anything.

Because using stat amps to do some things, no matter how easy, should be noted. Off the top of my head, against characters who just aoe null magic, that distinction is important to someone that doesn't know the verse and only ready the profile. It's not like he does use it that much in the fights we actually see anyhow.

As for beyond-human feats, which would those be? Kirei and Illya mention he was stupid to jump off from the... the fourth floor I want to say, in HF. He also explicitly mentions the idea of carrying his own body weight is insane in HA. He is very athletic, and Rin has some descriptions that make her peak athlete stuff even without magic like the baseball bat hit, but not outright superhuman far as I remember.

Why?

Because composite profiles are against the rules. We can make a key/profile for the anime if you wish though.

I mean, the Manga Adaptation has him make a 'golden circuit' to project excalibur, as well as having him fuse alternate Noble Phantasms into one (albeit, as a joke). Standard Shirou can't exactly do that, either.

Own body reinforcement is the most basic of basics for Magi. To say it's not their standard AP is like saying Goku using Ki isn't his standard AP.

See above, but not really. It is the easiest of things to do, but running out of magical energy is a thing, and using a buffing spell on yourself to be the tier you're listed at is very important in vs battles.

Shirou would have lesser resistance to the effects obviously, but its inherent to the system.

I don't agree that applying for everything listed though. You'd need to prove there is a lesser petrification he can resist, rather than assume. Some magical effects are inherently higher in effect than others - see Medea's already faux teleportation still being top tier and difficult to resist.

Maybe a “likely” for the UBW key that got much of his power?

Maybe, yeah. It is still a personal skill of Emiya's, and if his magical capacity can become greater than Rin's, then any scaling between him and Shirou should probably be proven.

Besides what Lehen already said he was shown to be able to use it.

With Artoria. It is stated by WoG that he loses the ability at the end of the Grail War. I can find the quote if needed. Two actually, one for Avalon, another for EX rank stuff in general (needs the thumbs up from its original owner to project).

 

[Wdinatx]

With Artoria. It is stated by WoG that he loses the ability at the end of the Grail War. I can find the quote if needed. Two actually, one for Avalon, another for EX rank stuff in general (needs the thumbs up from its original owner to project).

Sorry if I’m misunderstanding but I’m pretty sure this covers the thing about Saber… and the thing with EX ranks isn’t so broad as needing a “thumbs up” from the owner. It’s just that that would be beyond his capabilities if it hadn’t been a part of his body for so long Doesn’t it work to an extent in Heaven’s Feel? Either way Kiritsugu’s healing with the original Avalon had the same limitation as Shirou with it… the healing without her is nothing in comparison to when Saber is there.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

and the thing with EX ranks isn’t so broad as needing a “thumbs up” from the owner.

EX Rank Noble Phantasms are in principle impossible to replicate. (However, in the circumstance where the support of the original owner exists, replication becomes possible.

And I'm saying the P&A section should reflect that limitation too. Something like "with Saber" or something.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I'll start making a sandbox for now, see if there are disagreements after.