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DCAMU FULL VERSE revisions

GyroNutz

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Administrator
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This thread aims to upgrade all of the teen titan-level characters and Justice League level characters from the DC Animated Movies series. This calc recently got accepted, and it would put the Titans at 8-C. Scaling to this are the following characters:
  • Brother Blood obviously, as he had Starfire's powers.
  • Raven when not using her full power (fought cyborg Starfire on Apokolips)
  • Blue Beetle (Did the most damage to Brother Blood, who had Starfire's powers. Briefly knocked out restrained Raven during sparring, through her forcefield no less.
  • Beast Boy (Harmed Brother Blood, his Werebeast form did the most damage to the demons that the Titans fought)
  • Terra (Harmed Brother Blood, was about to kill Beast Boy though he wasn't transformed. Fought Raven off-screen, presumably. Deathstroke considered that Blood adding Terra's powers would be an upgrade)
  • Superboy (This one's less obvious, but he fought alongside the Titans in Apokolips War and survived the encounter, for what it's worth. He doesn't have a profile currently, and neither do the other "Supermen" that would scale)
  • Explosive Batarangs (Damian harmed Blue Beetle with these. Scales to Batman. Note that this is an "up to 8-C" rating as the power of the explosives they use varies, as both are generally against killing. Nightwing also uses them, but less often)
  • Flash + Reverse Flash (Harder sell. Kid Flash was able to harm the aliens that caused the crater shown in the feat, regular Flash would upscale. There's also statements that vaguely put Flash's strength above the Titans, like Cyborg implying that they wouldn't be able to beat Flash + Wonder Woman and Flash mocking the Titans in the Reign of the Supermen)
I also have some ability additions for some members:

Blue Beetle: Some form of electricity manipulation, hacking (?), instinctive reactions.

Beast Boy: Natural weaponry, underwater breathing via transformations

Terra: Can kick up dust storms, not sure if that counts for air manip. Also Superhuman... speed. Despite her current ratings, I don't believe that Terra is 9-A (8-C) physically. She was easily restrained by Beast Boy in a weaker transformation, and got harmed by Deathstroke's bullets. Due to surface area stuff, she would have only taken a small portion of Brother Blood's fortress collapse (and yeah, she died pretty much right after). She can be 9-B at best, in which case she'd get the full Superhuman Physical Characteristics, but probably something around human level is more fitting.

Raven: 5-C via summoning Trigon. High 6-A if the downgrade ever goes through, but she can summon Trigon to fight for her. Note that this is far from a standard tactic.


New Stuff​

This calc recently got accepted at 7-A, Mountain level. The planet reapers that Darkseid sent to Earth were able to form a crater of this magnitude without getting scratched, yet Shazam was pretty much able to barrel through it like it was nothing. This means that Shazam should scale above the feat, making him 7-A. For consistency, this 7-B feat for Doomsday was also accepted. Those that scale:

Justice League: I'll just put this all here. Most Justice League members generally scale to the same value, from fighting the same foes (Darkseid, Orm, Doomsday/Paradooms) and each other. Wonder Woman would scale above Shazam, as she knocked him over in one punch in JL: War and overpowered him in Flashpoint Paradox, and is generally treated as the second strongest member. The strongest is Superman, who would scale above that.

JL Villains: Doomsday and Darkseid scale above Superman, Luthor's mech suits scale a bit below Superman (though he doesn't have a profile) and Orm scales to Aquaman, probably having a higher rating with the Trident.

JL Dark/Magic Users: Felix Faust fought the Justice League before, Zatanna defeated Faust and restrained Superman (with magic), Etrigan fought on par with Wonder Woman and Raven tore apart a Luthor mech suit when using her full demon power.



Summary: Make Brother Blood, Flash/Reverse Flash and all of the Titans 8-C, Terra only get it for geokinesis and bat family only get it for explosive batarangs. Make anyone who scales to 8-A/Low 7-C a solid 7-A. Minor ability additions + changes too.
 
Last edited:
bump. I included a couple of accepted calcs that would make all the high tiers (8-A/Low 7-C guys) 7-A, scaling from Shazam's feat.
 
I'm pretty sure Flash is able to straight up harm Aquaman with his attacks in Flashpoint Paradox.

I think he has more scaling to the higher tiers but I'll need to recheck.

This all seems good tho. Will you be making a thread on speed? I have some problems with it and I can list them here if you wanna discuss them here.
 
I feel Flash and Thawne could use an overhaul but that's probably for another thread.
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I'm pretty sure Flash is able to straight up harm Aquaman with his attacks in Flashpoint Paradox.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he also staggered Darkseid + survived hits from him, though there's also several times where he's unable to harm top tiers with his attacks. Not something I particularly want to get into right now.

Emirp sumitpo said:
This all seems good tho. Will you be making a thread on speed? I have some problems with it and I can list them here if you wanna discuss them here.
Click to expand...
Sure, go ahead
 
GyroNutz said:
Yeah, he also staggered Darkseid + survived hits from him, though there's also several times where he's unable to harm top tiers with his attacks. Not something I particularly want to get into right now.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure he also has a thing where he seems to be stronger the faster he goes? Like without running he seems like Batman level but when running really fast he can start harming guys like Aquaman, and staggering Doomsday and Darkseid.

I guess something like: "Varies, up to 7-A"?

GyroNutz said:
Sure, go ahead
Click to expand...
Ok, I'll put them here in a bit
 
GyroNutz said:
Yeah, he also staggered Darkseid + survived hits from him, though there's also several times where he's unable to harm top tiers with his attacks. Not something I particularly want to get into right now.
Click to expand...
Maybe 8-C, likely 7-A could work? Since he's at varying points
Alternately he can just be at most 7-A
 
Hellbeast said:
Maybe 8-C, likely 7-A could work? Since he's at varying points
Alternately he can just be at most 7-A
Click to expand...
I feel the varies option is better considering he does seem to vary depending on how fast he runs.

The scene where he harms Aquaman should warrant a straight up 7-A imo.
 
Ok, this is "Simple":

  • Relativistic+ comes from nowhere AFAIK. It presumably is downscaling from Flash but Flash has only gone that fast once and it reset the universe.
  • Can someone link me the MHS+ video where Flash dodges lightning? (I want to see how casual it is, and it think his speed can also vary as he can straight up statue some characters who scales to his MHS+.
  • I feel that some characters are only MHS+ in reaction speed like Superman or Doomsday considering they couldn't tag him normally and needed to wait for an opening or the right moment

As for the most important one:

- Flash's FTL is bunk as hell because the actual statement itself only refers to Flash "breaking the time barrier"
Break the sound barrier and there's a sonic boom. You broke the time barrier, Flash, time boom. Ripples of distortion radiated through that point of impact, shifting everything just a tiny bit, but enough. Enough for events to happen slightly different.
Click to expand...
Nothing here implies FTL, if anything, it's a straight up Immeasurable speed feat. And considering him time travelling wrecked the timeline, he should get Low 2-C environmental destruction while Time Travelling. Thawne should get the same other than the environmental destruction.

And finally, what ability would Thawne get for resisting being changed to the new timeline. AFAIK, he never explains it here. Whereas in the original comic, he was outside the timestream when it happened and he became a living paradox. But here, they have just random guy kill Barry's parents and Thawne is fine with no explanation (Which is a story choice that kinda pisses me off but whatever). The closest I can think of is Acausality Type 1, since he was immune to changes to the past. What do ya'll think?

Conclusion:
  • Possibly Relativistic+ should be gone
  • Can I see the scans for MHS+? I can't find the video and I want to see how "casual" Flash was. His speed should be rewritten to "At least Massively Hypersonic+ (Casually dodged lightning)"
  • If the casual thing is false, Superman and Doomsday should probably just get MHS+ in reaction speed and get their base speed replaced with something else.
  • Flash and Reverse Flash should have their speed be "At least Massively Hypersonic+, up to Immeasurable" and Flash should get Low 2-C environmental destruction while time travelling
 
Hellbeast said:
Maybe 8-C, likely 7-A could work? Since he's at varying points
Alternately he can just be at most 7-A
Click to expand...
Emirp sumitpo said:
I guess something like: "Varies, up to 7-A"?
Click to expand...
Any one of these seems fine to me, though at a minimum I feel like he should be above Titan level.

Emirp sumitpo said:
- Flash's FTL is bunk as hell because the actual statement itself only refers to Flash "breaking the time barrier"

Nothing here implies FTL, if anything, it's a straight up Immeasurable speed feat. And considering him time travelling wrecked the timeline, he should get Low 2-C environmental destruction while Time Travelling. Thawne should get the same other than the environmental destruction.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure SoL is treated as the minimum speed required to time travel through speed, cause of inconsistencies in fiction. Low 2-C environmental destruction via Flashpoint seems fine.

Emirp sumitpo said:
Relativistic+ comes from nowhere AFAIK. It presumably is downscaling from Flash but Flash has only gone that fast once and it reset the universe.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's from downscaling from Flash. More specifically, this scene where Superman and Flash dodge omega beams and Flash says that he's never had to catch his breath before, implying that he was moving at his fastest. Other characters can move comparably to omega beams too.

Emirp sumitpo said:
Can someone link me the MHS+ video where Flash dodges lightning? (I want to see how casual it is, and it think his speed can also vary as he can straight up statue some characters who scales to his MHS+.
Click to expand...
Here's the scene
 
GyroNutz said:
Pretty sure SoL is treated as the minimum speed required to time travel through speed, cause of inconsistencies in fiction.
Click to expand...
I don't recall such a rule being here. And I'm not sure where it's stated going SOL means time travel. If anything, Immeasurable requires less assumptions.

GyroNutz said:
Yeah it's from downscaling from Flash. More specifically, this scene where Superman and Flash dodge omega beams and Flash says that he's never had to catch his breath before, implying that he was moving at his fastest. Other characters can move comparably to omega beams too.
Click to expand...
That's pretty dumb. The Flashpoint feat happens somewhat much later on, not only that, Flash obviously wasn't breaking the timeline at that point. Rel+ should be yeeted


GyroNutz said:
Here's the scene
Click to expand...
Seems finethent
 
Emirp sumitpo said:
I don't recall such a rule being here. And I'm not sure where it's stated going SOL means time travel. If anything, Immeasurable requires less assumptions.
Click to expand...
Here's the closest thing I could find. I don't think there are any specific statements about Flash moving FTL to time travel for what it's worth.

Emirp sumitpo said:
That's pretty dumb. The Flashpoint feat happens somewhat much later on, not only that, Flash obviously wasn't breaking the timeline at that point. Rel+ should be yeeted
Click to expand...
Flashpoint Paradox was the first movie chronologically speaking. I also don't think that time travel is a consequence of Flash's speed but rather something he intends to do when moving fast enough. In Flashpoint Paradox, Batman got Flash to test if he could run fast enough to break the time barrier. Obviously he wasn't fast enough then, because of Thawne, but if he had been then he wouldn't have done it if he knew he'd be whisked away to another timeline.

Still, if the rating gets changed to immeasurable then the scaling would have to go anyways.
 
Don't think there's enough evidence really. The beam comes out of a mirror rather than being reflected by it.
 
GyroNutz said:
Here's the closest thing I could find. I don't think there are any specific statements about Flash moving FTL to time travel for what it's worth.


Flashpoint Paradox was the first movie chronologically speaking. I also don't think that time travel is a consequence of Flash's speed but rather something he intends to do when moving fast enough. In Flashpoint Paradox, Batman got Flash to test if he could run fast enough to break the time barrier. Obviously he wasn't fast enough then, because of Thawne, but if he had been then he wouldn't have done it if he knew he'd be whisked away to another timeline.

Still, if the rating gets changed to immeasurable then the scaling would have to go anyways.
Click to expand...
The pages states it to be case by case, and here, I've already displayed why I think Immeasurable is the better option.

What do you think if my suggestion for Thawne having Acausalty Type 1 as I suggested earlier?
 
I remember Justice League: Doom had blatant in tandem laser timing for Batman and Flash
Batman even reflected it with a mirror
 
Yeah, iirc that movie had tier 5 feats for Green Lantern + Superman, but it's a standalone movie so no bueno.
 
GyroNutz said:
This thread aims to upgrade all of the teen titan-level characters and Justice League level characters from the DC Animated Movies series. This calc recently got accepted, and it would put the Titans at 8-C. Scaling to this are the following characters:
  • Brother Blood obviously, as he had Starfire's powers.
  • Raven when not using her full power (fought cyborg Starfire on Apokolips)
  • Blue Beetle (Did the most damage to Brother Blood, who had Starfire's powers. Briefly knocked out restrained Raven during sparring, through her forcefield no less.
  • Beast Boy (Harmed Brother Blood, his Werebeast form did the most damage to the demons that the Titans fought)
  • Terra (Harmed Brother Blood, was about to kill Beast Boy though he wasn't transformed. Fought Raven off-screen, presumably. Deathstroke considered that Blood adding Terra's powers would be an upgrade)
  • Superboy (This one's less obvious, but he fought alongside the Titans in Apokolips War and survived the encounter, for what it's worth. He doesn't have a profile currently, and neither do the other "Supermen" that would scale)
  • Explosive Batarangs (Damian harmed Blue Beetle with these. Scales to Batman. Note that this is an "up to 8-C" rating as the power of the explosives they use varies, as both are generally against killing. Nightwing also uses them, but less often)
  • Flash + Reverse Flash (Harder sell. Kid Flash was able to harm the aliens that caused the crater shown in the feat, regular Flash would upscale. There's also statements that vaguely put Flash's strength above the Titans, like Cyborg implying that they wouldn't be able to beat Flash + Wonder Woman and Flash mocking the Titans in the Reign of the Supermen)
I also have some ability additions for some members:

Blue Beetle: Some form of electricity manipulation, hacking (?), instinctive reactions.

Beast Boy: Natural weaponry, underwater breathing via transformations

Terra: Can kick up dust storms, not sure if that counts for air manip. Also Superhuman... speed. Despite her current ratings, I don't believe that Terra is 9-A (8-C) physically. She was easily restrained by Beast Boy in a weaker transformation, and got harmed by Deathstroke's bullets. Due to surface area stuff, she would have only taken a small portion of Brother Blood's fortress collapse (and yeah, she died pretty much right after). She can be 9-B at best, in which case she'd get the full Superhuman Physical Characteristics, but probably something around human level is more fitting.

Raven: 5-C via summoning Trigon. High 6-A if the downgrade ever goes through, but she can summon Trigon to fight for her. Note that this is far from a standard tactic.


New Stuff​

This calc recently got accepted at 7-A, Mountain level. The planet reapers that Darkseid sent to Earth were able to form a crater of this magnitude without getting scratched, yet Shazam was pretty much able to barrel through it like it was nothing. This means that Shazam should scale above the feat, making him 7-A. For consistency, this 7-B feat for Doomsday was also accepted. Those that scale:

Justice League: I'll just put this all here. Most Justice League members generally scale to the same value, from fighting the same foes (Darkseid, Orm, Doomsday/Paradooms) and each other. Wonder Woman would scale above Shazam, as she knocked him over in one punch in JL: War and overpowered him in Flashpoint Paradox, and is generally treated as the second strongest member. The strongest is Superman, who would scale above that.

JL Villains: Doomsday and Darkseid scale above Superman, Luthor's mech suits scale a bit below Superman (though he doesn't have a profile) and Orm scales to Aquaman, probably having a higher rating with the Trident.

JL Dark/Magic Users: Felix Faust fought the Justice League before, Zatanna defeated Faust and restrained Superman (with magic), Etrigan fought on par with Wonder Woman and Raven tore apart a Luthor mech suit when using her full demon power.



Summary: Make Brother Blood, Flash/Reverse Flash and all of the Titans 8-C, Terra only get it for geokinesis and bat family only get it for explosive batarangs. Make anyone who scales to 8-A/Low 7-C a solid 7-A. Minor ability additions + changes too.
Click to expand...
Why didn’t you tell me you made a CRT? I was gonna gather more feats 😭
 
Unlocked the thread, Zamasu said it's alright to continue with the calcs as they are.
 
No, it isn't. Basically it's just all the movies with the "Son of Batman" artstyle + Flashpoint Paradox.
 
More support for the new 8-C/7-A ratings, + discussing how the speed ratings should work, though it might be better to get the first one out of the way.
 
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