DC Comics - Perpetua Ability Revision

[Elizio33]

Don't be confused by the title, this is not a thread to revise Perpetua's tier. I will make another thread for this once the new currently accepted tiers suggested in the previous DC Cosmology thread are added.

This thread is mostly about removing the Crisis Energy ability from Perpetua's list of powers and abilities, as Perpetua didn't even seem able to use the Crisis Energy ability like the Anti-Life Equation or the Still Force, she just seems to be able to draw power from them to create/destroy/alter reality and imbue others with those powers, that's it. Her powers are mostly advanced forms of reality warping, matter manipulation and energy manipulation.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems uncontroversial to apply.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Crisis Energy is not even her power, to begin with.

 

[Elizio33]

Crisis Energy is not even her power, to begin with.

That's what i was saying. She had to draw power from Crisis Energy.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

That's what i was saying. She had to draw power from Crisis Energy.

Yeah, I was pointing out the obvious. I remember some people thinking she and the Darkest Knight are apparently more powerful than The Source.

 

[Gasper]

Yeah, I was pointing out the obvious. I remember some people thinking she and the Darkest Knight are apparently more powerful than The Source.

My man, on YouTube and qoura people still think she is stronger that the presence and is like the second or third strongest character in DC.

 

[Elizio33]

Yeah, I was pointing out the obvious. I remember some people thinking she and the Darkest Knight are apparently more powerful than The Source.

No? They posed a threat to the Hands and the entirety of the multiverse and the Sphere of the Gods, but not to the Source.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

My man, on YouTube and qoura people still think she is stronger that the presence and is like the second or third strongest character in DC.

The two wouldn't crack the top 10, to be honest.

OT: This thread is good to use.

 

[Elizio33]

The two wouldn't crack the top 10, to be honest.

OT: This thread is good to use.

They were massively more powerful than most beings of the multiverse like the New Gods, Mandrakk, Anti-Monitor, Barbatos, but there are beings vastly more powerful than them.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

No? They posed a threat to the Hands and the entirety of the multiverse and the Sphere of the Gods, but not to the Source.

It has been mentioned once that Darkest Knight would go for whatever lay in the Omniverse after he killed the Hands.

Which he never did and if he was struggling to best a slightly weakened Perpetua. What makes us believe he could take the entire Council? It sounded more boastful than anything.

 

[Gasper]

Are we using writer's statement on how perpetua was weakened and could only destroys one universe at the time? Or do we assume she is only low 2-C?

 

[Elizio33]

It has been mentioned once that Darkest Knight would go for whatever lay in the Omniverse after he killed the Hands.

Which he never did and if he was struggling to best a slightly weakened Perpetua. What makes us believe he could take the entire Council? It sounded more boastful then anything.

The Darkest Knight needed to weaponize the multiverse in his plan to kill all the Hands. Without them, as you said, he struggled to kill a slightly weakened Perpetua.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The Darkest Knight needed to weaponize the multiverse in his plan to kill all the Hands. Without them, as you said, he struggled to kill a slightly weakened Perpetua.

It was mentioned that but people assume he could just do it.

 

[Elizio33]

Are we using writer's statement on how perpetua was weakened and could only destroys one universe at the time? Or do we assume she is only low 2-C?

Scott Snyder said that Perpetua was not at full power, but this contradicts the story as Perpetua herself said that all but a fraction of her power was returned meaning only a portion of her power was still missing. 99% or 98% is a pretty good tease of what Perpetua can do at 100%

 

[Elizio33]

It was mentioned that but people assume he could just do it.

Not by himself. He can kill one Hand by himself, but not the whole species.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Scott Snyder said that Perpetua was not at full power, but this contradicts the story as Perpetua herself said that all but a fraction of her power was returned meaning only a portion of her power was still missing. 99% or 98% is a pretty good tease of what Perpetua can do at 100%

Perpetua also said she never felt power like this except once before. Which implies that was near her full power.

 

[Elizio33]

Are we using writer's statement on how perpetua was weakened and could only destroys one universe at the time? Or do we assume she is only low 2-C?

2-C at base power is fine for Perpetua and Low 1-C with the Totality is fine as well.

 

[Elizio33]

Perpetua also said she never felt power like this except once before. Which implies that was near her full power.

Yes, she said that it has been eons since she'd wielded such power.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Yes, she said that it has been eons since she'd wielded such power.

It's also a direct link given that all the usage of her power was before her imprisonment.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This seems uncontroversial to apply.

Agreed

 

[Elizio33]

It's also a direct link given that all the usage of her power was before her imprisonment.

Yes.

Here's what Perpetua can do without the Totality according to the comics.

Wiped out a universe in an instant but needed time to gather enough energy to destroy another universe afterwards. Beings like the Anti-Monitor and Barbatos do this over time. - Justice League Vol 4 35

Transformed Brainiac One Million into a throne of power. Brainiac One Million bottled hundreds to infinite timelines using Perpetua's technologies and was going to destroy them after assimilating all knowledge he could from them. - Justice League Vol 4 36

Perpetua is a hundred of time more powerful than any Barbatos according to Batman. Barbatos consume universes one by one and over time - Dark Nights: Death Metal Vol 1 2

Stalemated against the Ultra-Monitor while significantly weakened. Beings constituting the Ultra-Monitor, the Monitor Brothers, are at least able to create or destroy a universe over time. Their true state are above Mr. Mxyzptlk who could unimagine the fabric of things of the multiverse over time. - Justice League Vol 4 34

Perpetua's battle against the Darkest Knight was collapsing a nearly destroyed multiverse of six universes remaining, the Bleed between and around them was also collapsing. - Dark Nights Death Metal: Rise of the New God Vol 1 1

2-C is best for Perpetua since most of her feats caps from universe to low multiversal levels. I feels like Low 2-C would be a bit too low for her. Low 1-C is for the Totality.

 

[Gasper]

Yes.

Here's what Perpetua can do without the Totality according to the comics.

Wiped out a universe in an instant but needed time to gather enough energy to destroy another universe afterwards. Beings like the Anti-Monitor and Barbatos do this over time. - Justice League Vol 4 35

Transformed Brainiac One Million into a throne of power. Brainiac One Million bottled hundreds to infinite timelines using Perpetua's technologies and was going to destroy them after assimilating all knowledge he could from them. - Justice League Vol 4 36

Perpetua is a hundred of time more powerful than any Barbatos according to Batman. Barbatos consume universes one by one and over time - Dark Nights: Death Metal Vol 1 2

Stalemated against the Ultra-Monitor while significantly weakened. Beings constituting the Ultra-Monitor, the Monitor Brothers, are at least able to create or destroy a universe over time. Their true state are above Mr. Mxyzptlk who could unimagine the fabric of things of the multiverse - Justice League Vol 4 34

Perpetua's battle against the Darkest Knight was collapsing a nearly destroyed multiverse of six universes remaining, the Bleed between and around them was also collapsing. - Dark Nights Death Metal: Rise of the New God Vol 1 1

2-C is best for Perpetua since most of her feats caps from universe to low multiversal levels. I feels like Low 2-C would be a bit too low for her. Low 1-C is for the Totality.

What is totally? Like her full power or something?

 

[Elizio33]

The power she had gathered from the multiverse, but that power can be depleted after overuse and can be drawn from the multiverse to replace what was lost, which Perpetua did. She can use it to recreate the multiverse in her image and have some degree of control over the multiverse.

 

[Elizio33]

Anyway, if everyone agrees, I think it is fine to apply.

 

[Gasper]

Anyway, if everyone agrees, I think it is fine to apply.

I think you can apply it yes.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I think you can apply it yes.

When the 48 hrs are done.

 

[Gasper]

When the 48 hrs are done.

Forgot about that.

 

[Elizio33]

Bump

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The power she had gathered from the multiverse, but that power can be depleted after overuse and can be drawn from the multiverse to replace what was lost, which Perpetua did. She can use it to recreate the multiverse in her image and have some degree of control over the multiverse.

Yes, the Crisis Energy can be depleted and that is the source of power she mainly used. Which only comes from making it. So she doesn't naturally possess it.

When she does she would probably revert to the that Crisis Energy should be the dominant energy. As she could use the Multiverse as a power source to draw from like what Darkest Knight did.

Without any boost, she should be 2-C, with an AP that could range from 3-A to Low 2-C.

Within her original status when she was first called upon. She should be maybe Low 1-C, but that's not to do with power but her outreach since she is a 6D being. She may not be able to destroy much less anything greater than a 3-A structure at a time.

 

[Elizio33]

Yes, the Crisis Energy can be depleted and that is the source of power she mainly used. Which only comes from making it. So she doesn't naturally possess it.

When she does she would probably revert to the that Crisis Energy should be the dominant energy. As she could use the Multiverse as a power source to draw from like what Darkest Knight did.

Without any boost, she should be 2-C, with an AP that could range from 3-A to Low 2-C.

Within her original status when she was first called upon. She should be maybe Low 1-C, but that's not to do with power but her outreach since she is a 6D being. She may not be able to destroy much less anything greater than a 3-A structure at a time.

Yes, but her AP should range to 2-C since she'd threatened to destroy the Bleed and erased the New Gods worlds which are higher-vibrational outside conventional space-time.

Here's what Perpetua did with amps:

With the Source's power, she shaped the dimensional superstructure with three realms, six planes of existence, and eight dimensions making up the multiverse. - Justice League Vol 4 22 - The Multiversity: Pax Americana Vol 1 1

Torn pieces of the Overvoid and fashioned them into her sons. - Justice League Vol 4 22

With the Totality, she was going to restart the Orrery of Worlds in her image after tearing it down. - Dark Nights Metal: Multiverse's End Vol 1 1

 

[Elizio33]

Even though she hasn't created the Sixth Dimension, she still have created an eight-dimensional multiversal structure with the Source's power. She can also control the Sixth Dimension with the Totality and decide that the Monitor Brothers could no longer revive there if they were killed.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Yes, but her AP should range to 2-C since she'd threatened to destroy the Bleed and erased the New Gods worlds which are higher-vibrational outside conventional space-time.

The battle was causing the Bleed to be affected. This is not direct in anyway. Erasing New Gods doesn't directly scale past 2-C and this was a higher-end feat something she couldn't replicate again given her influx in power.

Here's what Perpetua did with amps:

With the Source's power, she shaped the dimensional superstructure with three realms, six planes of existence, and eight dimensions making up the multiverse. - Justice League Vol 4 22 - The Multiversity: Pax Americana Vol 1 1

That's the “Source” powers. The amp doesn't pertain to anything but when she possesses the power. We see later she can barely destroy a Universe without having to recharge after each one.

Torn pieces of the Overvoid and fashioned them into her sons. - Justice League Vol 4 22

Not a direct feat that correlates to anything.

With the Totality, she was going to restart the Orrery of Worlds in her image after tearing it down. - Dark Nights Metal: Multiverse's End Vol 1 1

She didn't. If it's implied and it's stretching the understanding we have of her. However, since this is her with an amp then sure.

 

[Elizio33]

The battle was causing the Bleed to be affected. This is not direct in anyway. Erasing New Gods doesn't directly scale past 2-C and this was a higher-end feat something she couldn't replicate again given her influx in power.

That's the “Source” powers. The amp doesn't pertain to anything but when she possesses the power. We see later she can barely destroy a Universe without having to recharge after each one.

Not a direct feat that correlates to anything.

She didn't. If it's implied and it's stretching the understanding we have of her. However, since this is her with an amp then sure.

Perpetua didn't just erased the New Gods, but also their worlds which are higher-dimensional. I don't think it was a high-end feat that she couldn't replicate, for example, everyone in the Gods Sphere and the Multiverse was afraid of Perpetua before and after she regained her full power. If she couldn't replicate that feat, I doubt the New Gods would be so afraid of her to have a doomsday prophecy involving Perpetua. Even Darkseid was hiding from her multiversal rampage in Justice League Odyssey.

That's what I said, it was with the Source's power that she shaped the multiverse. And i know she never restarted the Orrery, but it was said and implied multiple times that she could with the energies she'd gathered from the multiverse.

 

[Elizio33]

Anyway, Perpetua is a hundreds time more powerful than any Barbatos according to Batman. Barbatos has a at least one 2-C feat, so 2-C for base Perpetua is no stretch.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Perpetua didn't just erased the New Gods, but also their worlds which are higher-dimensional. I don't think it was a high-end feat that she couldn't replicate, for example, everyone in the Gods Sphere and the Multiverse was afraid of Perpetua before and after she regained her full power. If she couldn't replicate that feat, I doubt the New Gods would be so afraid of her to have a doomsday prophecy involving Perpetua. Even Darkseid was hiding from her multiversal rampage in Justice League Odyssey.

Fearing her is natural due to what she had done and due to the fact, she is several rung higher than them. Replace Perpetua with anyone at her level would produce the same outcome. Comparing lesser beings can upscale her but doesn't change the fact she has a lower showing throughout much of the story. This is not aiming to say she couldn't but more so it's unlikely we’ll see her to achieve a a feat like that. Also, this was during the time the Totality has disperse power and reformed while Perpetua was awakening. This means the Sphere doesn't scale as we once thought or it was a higher showing for Perpetua. All else reason was provided with context.

That's what I said, it was with the Source's power that she shaped the multiverse. And i know she never restarted the Orrery, but it was said and implied multiple times that she could with the energies she'd gathered from the multiverse.

I also mentioned that it is implied may mean many things. I was quoting what you said and I very well understand you didn't say she did.

She needs ample amounts of energy, it never stated how much was required. If she could then it would be a drastic amount.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Anyway, Perpetua is a hundreds time more powerful than any Barbatos according to Batman. Barbatos has a at least one 2-C feat, so 2-C for base Perpetua is no stretch.

I don't think anyone disagrees with Perpetua being 2-C. Her AP is what's questionable during this diminished state.

 

[Elizio33]

I don't think anyone disagrees with Perpetua being 2-C. Her AP is what's questionable during this diminished state.

I was also taking about her AP. Barbatos's anti-music only applies to his AP. Her AP should also scale to Mr. Mxyzptlk who can unimagine the Orrery over time.

 

[Antvasima]

Elizio33's conclusions here seem fine to me.

 

[Tobi1]

Looks good but just a few details.

Perpetua was gathering energy to destroy a universe and needed to gather more to destroy another universe afterward.

Just want to point out that she destroy a universe in a single instant, which is way more powerful than the Anti-Monitor who is only able to destroy a universe over time via an anti-matter HAX. I'll talk about that later.

What Perpetua was drawing energy from the Multiverse, as you already know, was Crisis Energy, the energy overseeing all aspects of the self -- selfishness, greed and predation. This is important because Crisis Energy and Anti-Crisis Energy are malleable energies that can be fashioned into a Multiverse whose energies can be harnessed and wielded.

For example, Perpetua drew into the dark energies of the Multiverse, aka Crisis Energy, to destroy universe after universe and would have amassed enough Crisis Energy to restart the Multiverse in her image if her plan had succeeded.

Another exemple, Wonder Woman wanted to collect Crisis Energy from the three Crisis Worlds in the Dark Multiverse to remake the Multiverse into its initial configuration of infinite universes before the Anti-Monitor's Crisis.

What does this prove? That Perpetua needs to gather Crisis Energy to destroy universe after universe, and the power to restart the Multiverse in her image is a reality-warping HAX that she probably couldn't use in a fight and needs a lot of Crisis Energy to do this.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Looks good but just a few details.

Perpetua was gathering energy to destroy a universe and needed to gather more to destroy another universe afterward.

Just want to point out that she destroy a universe in a single instant, which is way more powerful than the Anti-Monitor who is only able to destroy a universe over time via an anti-matter HAX. I'll talk about that later.

What Perpetua was drawing energy from the Multiverse, as you already know, was Crisis Energy, the energy overseeing all aspects of the self -- selfishness, greed and predation. This is important because Crisis Energy and Anti-Crisis Energy are malleable energies that can be fashioned into a Multiverse whose energies can be harnessed and wielded.

For example, Perpetua drew into the dark energies of the Multiverse, aka Crisis Energy, to destroy universe after universe and would have amassed enough Crisis Energy to restart the Multiverse in her image if her plan had succeeded.

Another exemple, Wonder Woman wanted to collect Crisis Energy from the three Crisis Worlds in the Dark Multiverse to remake the Multiverse into its initial configuration of infinite universes before the Anti-Monitor's Crisis.

What does this prove? That Perpetua needs to gather Crisis Energy to destroy universe after universe, and the power to restart the Multiverse in her image is a reality-warping HAX that she probably couldn't use in a fight and needs a lot of Crisis Energy to do this.

I agree.