DBZ low 5-B issue

[Coolboy6]

Ok so I made a vs thread putting goku against naruto, and I learned that Goku’s low 5-B key comes from downscaling to baseline planet level. If that’s the case, then he, Nappa, and Guldo should be small planet level+. Idk why no one has said anything about it before.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He's Low 5-B in base, Low 5-B+ with Kaioken x2, and 5-B in Kaioken x3 or x3. Not sure about Guldo, his PL is higher than Low 5-B, but lower than the Kaioken x2

 

[Coolboy6]

He's Low 5-B in base, Low 5-B+ with Kaioken x2, and 5-B in Kaioken x3 or x3. Not sure about Guldo, his PL is higher than Low 5-B, but lower than the Kaioken x2

Goku’s pl is over 8000 kaioken x2 is over 16000 so it would be 5-B because vegeta is 18,000

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, but we do not use PL's linearly; Kaioken is a different story and technically Vegeta is 1.333x more durable than his Galick Gun's AP but it was safest to consider Kaioken x3 baselinish 5-B even if he's technically moderately above that. But I do not know how we can guess work Guldo where in between base Vegeta Saga Goku and KKx2 Vegeta Saga Goku. But assuming PL's are linear isn't the option. So at least Low 5-B makes most sense.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

Goku’s pl is over 8000 kaioken x2 is over 16000 so it would be 5-B because vegeta is 18,000

Don't you need to have a PL of 10,000 to bust a planet. And over 8,000 exactly as it implies it's over 8,000.

And seeing how he Bopped Nappa IIRC then I'm pretty sure he's baseline 5-B

 

[Nullflowerblush]

And over 8,000 exactly as it implies it's over 8,000.

He may have a Power Level "over 8,000" but nothing suggests that he has a Power Level in the tens of thousands, especially when most databooks and supplementary sources agree that Goku is 16,000 with Kaio-ken, 24,000 with Kaio-ken x3, and 36,000 with Kaio-ken x4.

And seeing how he Bopped Nappa IIRC then I'm pretty sure he's baseline 5-B

Nappa had a Power Level of 6,000, and once he got angry, Goku felt the need to use Kaio-ken.
In spite of his power-up, Vegeta still stomped him, even before powering up.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

He may have a Power Level "over 8,000" but nothing suggests that he has a Power Level in the tens of thousands, especially when most databooks and supplementary sources agree that Goku is 16,000 with Kaio-ken, 24,000 with Kaio-ken x3, and 36,000 with Kaio-ken x4.

Nappa had a Power Level of 6,000, and once he got angry, Goku felt the need to use Kaio-ken.
In spite of his power-up, Vegeta still stomped him, even before powering up.

Oh okay cool.

 

[Antvasima]

Since the question has been answered here, should we close this thread?

 

[Coolboy6]

I still don’t know why goku isn’t low 5-B+ if he downscales to baseline planet level though

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I still don’t know why goku isn’t low 5-B+ if he downscales to baseline planet level though

Agreed.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Also, can someone send to me the scan that shows that 10k power level is enough to destroy a planet?

 

[Orange]

Here, it's in spanish, you can ask for it to get translated

 

[Bernkastelll]

Here, it's in spanish, you can ask for it to get translated

Thanks, and not needed to translate, because as a portuguese speaker, I can understand a bit of spanish

 

[Orange]

The only thing I understand is planeta and 10 000 lmao-
what does it say seriously

 

[Bernkastelll]

The only thing I understand is planeta and 10 000 lmao-
what does it say seriously

It says something like this ''How much combat strength piccolo got with his fusion with Neil? there is no doubt that it was strong enough that even scouters couldnt calculate it, if what it says is right, frieza in his 2nd form shows a combat strength that surpass 1 million and piccolo perhaps has surpassed that quantity, if with a strength of 10000 its possible to destroy a planet, its incompreensible how much its possible to ??? (i didnt understood this word) with 1 million''

 

[Bernkastelll]

It says something like this ''How much combat strength piccolo got with his fusion with Neil? there is no doubt that it was strong enough that even scouters couldnt calculate it, if what it says is right, frieza in his 2nd form shows a combat strength that surpass 1 million and piccolo perhaps has surpassed that quantity, if with a strength of 10000 its possible to destroy a planet, its incompreensible how much its possible to ??? (i didnt understood this word) with 1 million''

Also, sorry for my bad english lol, I probably mistyped some english words there, but i guess the translation its understandable

 

[Orange]

No no it's fine
You were right, the scan talks about piccolo fusion, Frieza's power level.
The interesting part is that just a power level of 10 000 can destroy a planet, imagine what a 1000 000 can do

 

[Qawsedf234]

Afaik that guidebook isn't a Japanese thing, but a French guidebook translated into Spanish/Portuguese to celebrate some sort of brand anniversary.

It being a useable piece of canon is questionable.

 

[Orange]

Does it have any contradictions?
it also have some informations about SSJ goku, SSJ2 gohan and broly, some few stuff in the buu saga too

 

[Bernkastelll]

Does it have any contradictions?

Not really, as the characters could destroy the moon with 180 power level (master roshi)

 

[Qawsedf234]

Does it have any contradictions?

It doesn't matter if does or does not. Its not published by Shueisha

 

[Bernkastelll]

It doesn't matter if does or does not. Its nots published by Shueisha

Oh

 

[Orange]

I always thought it was-

 

[Nullflowerblush]

They're licensed by Bird Studio and Shueisha, and according to Hachette's, the publisher of the magazines, website states that they have worked closely with Shueisha on them. They were informational magazines on the series released with figurines and what have you. According to the credits, they were originally produced by a Japanese company but then translated into Spanish; whether or not there exists a Japanese print is unknown.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Guess Herm's point is the best thing to take

"Official" simply means that they have the legal rights to produce something. Everything that Shueisha and Toei approve and have their name on somewhere is "official". FUNimation's 1996 English dub? Official. Harmony Gold's original 1980s English dub attempt? Official. The character profiles in video games? Official. The Daizenshuu books? Official. Episode descriptions on the NickToons website? Official. The Big Green dub? Official. The Cantonese VCDs? Official. The action figure with Kuririn and a machine gun? Official.

All of these are "official". They were all produced by real companies that paid the appropriate licensing fees and have pre-existing arrangements with the rights-holders in Japan to produce these items.

That particular product you've shown here in photos appears to be official. I think a good comparison would be something like the Dragon Ball articles (and even interviews) in the American edition of Viz's Shonen Jump magazine. Those are all "official" but do not have any original Japanese sources; they are exclusive and original to the English-language product.

That is a completely separate question from "should I consider this information accurate and truthful?" (and especially "... from an in-universe perspective?").

And that's... often too big a discussion to have, because different fans are on different pages. Some don't want to hear anything at all if it wasn't printed in the pages of Weekly Shonen Jump between 1984 and 1995. Some only want to hear it if it came from a Japanese book. Some only want to hear it if they can independently confirm some type of direct involvement or sign-off from Akira Toriyama himself.

Honestly still not super inclined to use it, but if accepted we'd have to take the good with the bad since Frieza's explicitly SoL Death Beams couldn't be seen by Frieza Saga Piccolo and Peak Frieza Saga Vegeta barely reacted to it. So we'd also need to downgrade speeds pretty hard.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Guess Herm's point is the best thing to take

Honestly still not super inclined to use it, but if accepted we'd have to take the good with the bad since Frieza's explicitly SoL Death Beams couldn't be seen by Frieza Saga Piccolo and Peak Frieza Saga Vegeta barely reacted to it. So we'd also need to downgrade speeds pretty hard.

I mean, we dont use secundary sources if contradicts the primary, being able to destroy a planet with 10k pl is not contradicted

 

[Qawsedf234]

I mean, we dont use secundary sources if contradicts the primary

But it doesn't contradict the primary. Everything speed wise is based on assumption that Piccolo's beam hit the moon at near-light speeds. But there's no source that indicate that happened. He just fired it and it eventually hit the moon.

If we have a hard source saying its SoL and nothing else from the main stuff that contradicts it, then it needs to be considered.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Frieza's explicitly SoL Death Beams

They're only stated to be beams of light which has been rejected numerous times in the past.

 

[Bernkastelll]

But it doesn't contradict the primary. Everything speed wise is based on assumption that Piccolo's beam hit the moon at near-light speeds. But there's no source that indicate that happened. .

Isnt it exactly the source? I mean, it hit the moon really quick

 

[Purgy]

Guess Herm's point is the best thing to take

Honestly still not super inclined to use it, but if accepted we'd have to take the good with the bad since Frieza's explicitly SoL Death Beams couldn't be seen by Frieza Saga Piccolo and Peak Frieza Saga Vegeta barely reacted to it. So we'd also need to downgrade speeds pretty hard.

That link doesn't work

But we don't consider Frieza's Death Beams SoL, at the moment they're treated as Relativistic for being above the speed of his Supernova attack.

And I specifically remember threads explicitly rejecting his Death Beams being SoL.

 

[Qawsedf234]

That link doesn't work

Gotta open it in an incognito tab

But we don't consider Frieza's Death Beams SoL, at the moment they're treated as Relativistic for being above the speed of his Supernova attack.

We treat them as MFTL

And I specifically remember threads explicitly rejecting his Death Beams being SoL.

Those threads never considered the above guide as a canon source.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Those threads never considered the above guide as a canon source.

Finally, some tangible FTL Dragon Ball evidence

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Purgy]

Gotta open it in an incognito tab

We treat them as MFTL

Those threads never considered the above guide as a canon source.

They're treated as FTL+ on Goku's profile, doesn't really matter though.

Actually that scan was used in the thread and blog I'm referring to, it just translates as a beam of light, not anything similar to the speed of light.

Unless you're referring to a different part of the scan.

 

[Qawsedf234]

User blog:Nullflowerblush/Finally, some tangible FTL Dragon Ball evidence | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom​

vsbattles.fandom.com

So like, you agree with me then. Since everyone beneath those two couldn't be FTL if the beams are SoL

 

[Purgy]

So like, you agree with me then. Since everyone beneath those two couldn't be FTL if the beams are SoL

Except again, nowhere is it said the beams are SoL, and that blog was rejected.

 

[Qawsedf234]

nowhere is it said the beams are SoL,

Most people take "Beam of Light" as a SoL beam of light.

But guess it might not be that.

 

[Purgy]

Most people take "Beam of Light" as a SoL beam of light.

But guess it might not be that.

That isn't how the lightspeed standards for beams/lasers work here at all.

 

[Qawsedf234]

hat isn't how the lightspeed standards for beams/lasers work here at all.

No, its definitely a reason I've seen before and accepted before. Beam of light being the sole justification isn't, but other things can make it usable.

 

[Orange]

You know in fiction
people can use beam of light, but it doesn't mean it has its properties or speed, some can use beams of light slower than light, others are faster. Hell, God of war has an infinite speed done by light [the lighten up one of the realms that was infinite, it was the underworld I believe?]. Being stated to be a beam of light doesn't translate always to having the speed of it, alot of works use 'beam of light' as a beam that's super fast, how fast is it depends on the worm, that's why we have the standards for these, that's why we don't treat every single 'beam of ligh' as a legit proof of having the speed of light without having some other proofs or following the qualification we put in order for such statements to be passable as a legitimate proof of being 'light speed'. 'Beam of light' in some fictions involve something that literally isn't made from photons, or travels like light, or have it's speed. It's just a common phrase to describe something that produces light and moves extremely fast.

 

[MidnightDawn1]

I mean I could be wrong.

But doesn't the Demon Race in DB refer to Ki and Kili and they started that only 200-300 Kili is needed to destroy a planet?

But I don't know how consistent that it tbh.