CRT: killer peter speed downgrade discussion

[Crimsonobu]

iv been noticing for a while just how little attention to detail killer peter calcs actually get. the verse is met with little to no skepticism in terms of their feats which leads to insanely bloated calcs that get the verse higher than it should be.
let's first address a calculation that's just blatantly flawed: thaddeus "slow motion" ing a knife . not only does this not meet the standards for current slow-motion calculations, but you can visibly see as viott pointed out that the knife appears further away from the floor in the 2nd reference image making it even more invalid (viott points it out as it being a wrong reference speed but i believe the calc itself shouldn't be slow motion what so ever) .

this calculation that relies on Matthias's sleight of hand speed : presented here gets the verse to massively hypersonic (Mach 500+) . there's multiple inverse issues with this being their speed.
first you have to take a look at the canonical provided statistics for the characters at hand : present here . Matthias himself has little to no physically impressive stats, (in comparison to other apostles) infact himself processing inferior physical stats to multiple A rank killers and one D rank killer biggie dokgo (posseses = speed to Matthias according to the stats) . this includes the most important stat in this discussing being speed. a top tier A ranked killer (Levin) who took copious amounts of enhancing drugs to the point where he was considered superhuman, had a throwing speed only above a bullet.

what im trying to get at here is that someone who definitely ranks far above Matthias's speeds and considers above bullet speed to be not human / too high above his own level to be possible
should indicate that Matthias's own speed scaling makes no sense and makes it lead to contradictions. and ill be listing said contractions.
the KP verse has demonstrated multiple times that bullets still can be threats, and they evidently are since hell even 2 of the apostles themselves walk around armed, one of them being Dorothy and the other being philip. Dorothy herself using them as her main way of fighting (which should already be indicative enough of the speed scaling being weird) , but ill include a compliation of scans that should demonstrate the cases where bullets are actively treated as threats.

shown here: examples of bullet inconsistency within the verse

i personally have a belief that this verse (and honestly most other low tiers like lookism and reality quest) are hypersonic or just supersonic (within that range)
even Simons spiral sword slash ends up being inconsistent with the examples iv given, (not to mention that that feat quite literally never happened in the first place and that it was an illusion.

tldr: calcs seem to inflate the verse to levels it just shouldn't be at with the story portrayal

 

[CatLover313]

I was going to eventually make a thread like this (after my Slow Mo Revision thread was finalized (I have the votes, I just need an admin to give me access to the calculation page ). (Also slightly wish the post was presented a little better but might be just me) Definitely agree that this feat (Thaddeus Slow Motion) doesn't even pass the old slow mo rules due to the knife moving distances and that for this feat (Matthias Grenade Flick), while it says that Matthias's sleight of hand is too quick to be caught be a High Speed Camera, that should only be with regular sleight of hand distances and especially not when he's throwing it 2 meters. I also agree that MHS+ seems way too high for a verse that still treats and has many situations where bullet's shouldn't be a threat at that kinds of speeds:

• Alipede being hit by a Gun despite scaling to MHS+ Combat speeds.
• Peter in multiple instances saying he can't dodge certain gunfire in these situations (1 (Your Link) and 2 (Webtoon Chapter 113))

Not so sure about your other examples but those 3 instances are pretty big standouts in my opinion.

​

 

[Crimsonobu]

I was going to eventually make a thread like this (after my Slow Mo Revision thread was finalized (I have the votes, I just need an admin to give me access to the calculation page ). (Also slightly wish the post was presented a little better but might be just me) Definitely agree that this feat (Thaddeus Slow Motion) doesn't even pass the old slow mo rules due to the knife moving distances and that for this feat (Matthias Grenade Flick), while it says that Matthias's sleight of hand is too quick to be caught be a High Speed Camera, that should only be with regular sleight of hand distances and especially not when he's throwing it 2 meters. I also agree that MHS+ seems way too high for a verse that still treats and has many situations where bullet's shouldn't be a threat at that kinds of speeds:

• Alipede being hit by a Gun despite scaling to MHS+ Combat speeds.
• Peter in multiple instances saying he can't dodge certain gunfire in these situations (1 (Your Link) and 2 (Webtoon Chapter 113))

Not so sure about your other examples but those 3 instances are pretty big standouts in my opinion.

​

yeah honestly some of the examples are iffy. but generally bullets are treated as a threat. especially an apostle saying you cant dodge a close range shotgun . i have same issues with lookism too. manager kim does the same stuff. i agree with the presentation but its my first crt and im not doing so well rn so i didn't have much time.
i was always confused why people accepted those speeds so easily when high tier characters legit use guns against other high tiers. thanks for the comment bro

theres issues with some stuff too like thaddeus being called fastest in the world but still getting caught here and there by peter who legit admits inferiority to close range shotgun fire

 

[LogicAxiom46]

I agree with you. I’ve actually been meaning to make a thread about this for quite some time, but I’ve been busy with school. I think Peter’s speed portrayal is inconsistent in several ways. For example, if Peter is truly capable of moving at Mach 500, it doesn’t seem reasonable that he would struggle to dodge a Barrett round, which travels at around Mach 2–3, and even get grazed by it. The gap between Mach 500 and Mach 2–3 is hundreds of times apart. Logically speaking, a bullet at that speed should not pose any meaningful threat to him.
Additionally, the Mach 500 calculation appears to rely on assuming a specific timeframe, since the series never clearly specifies what type of camera was used or confirms a measurable frame rate that can be directly applied for calculation. Simply stating that the camera could not capture the movement may not be sufficient to justify such an extreme timeframe.
Furthermore, when looking at the series as a whole, firearms are consistently portrayed as legitimate threats that the characters must seriously react to and avoid. This portrayal seems far more consistent with a Supersonic to Hypersonic range rather than Massively Hypersonic.
For these reasons, I believe the Mach 500 rating may be an overestimation compared to what is actually supported by the source material, and it would be reasonable to re-evaluate it based on clearer evidence.

 

[Black_Cat49]

I agree with removing Thaddeus’s calculation. However, regarding Matthias’s calculation, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. He clearly stated that his throwing speed was faster than a high-speed slow-motion camera. Dividing the timeframe by the throwing distance isn’t exactly complicated. And the other characters who scale from it only get Reaction & Combat Speed (in short distances).

• In Chapter 111 (if I remember correctly), the shotgun’s effective range was already explained, and Andrew simply assumed it couldn’t be dodged because, from that angle, the pellets would still reach (due to their spread). But in the end, Peter used his technique to avoid it. (Why didn’t you include that panel?)
• In Chapter 113 (again, if I’m remembering correctly), if you pay close attention, you’ll notice the assassin was sniping from the end of a straight path with no cover available—just a direct line. In that situation, even running wouldn’t make dodging easy (even though Peter is normally capable of dodging bullets).
• As for the Matthew scene, if you read carefully, you’d know she ambushed Peter, which is why he couldn’t dodge everything. But the moment she revealed herself, Peter was able to dodge normally again. (Did you actually read it? lol.)

Therefore, I don’t think these scenes should be used to downgrade the speed, because there are always contextual reasons explaining why something was missed or why it happened that way (if you actually read it).

Even though I don’t want to point fingers, if you’re saying Peter or others can’t dodge bullets and therefore should be reduced to Subsonic/Subsonic+ or Transonic, then by that logic, other series you mentioned—like Lookism or Reality Quest—shouldn’t exceed Subsonic+ or Transonic either, right? Because those characters can still be shot by guns. Yet their profiles list them at Supersonic or Supersonic+ (and they’re even getting upgraded soon).

As for Saint.K.Grass and Crimsonobu (since they’re the same person using different accounts—is that even allowed?), I’ve been observing you for a while. When Lookism’s speed calculations were rejected from going beyond Supersonic, you started consistently trying to lower the speed of other series to be below or equal to Lookism. Before that, you never did this—because Lookism’s speed was higher than the others.

I don’t know whether you genuinely believe it’s incorrect or if it’s just bias, but the timing of when you started arguing coincides exactly with when Lookism had its Supersonic+ rating removed.

 

[Crimsonobu]

I agree with removing Thaddeus’s calculation. However, regarding Matthias’s calculation, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. He clearly stated that his throwing speed was faster than a high-speed slow-motion camera. Dividing the timeframe by the throwing distance isn’t exactly complicated. And the other characters who scale from it only get Reaction & Combat Speed (in short distances).

• In Chapter 111 (if I remember correctly), the shotgun’s effective range was already explained, and Andrew simply assumed it couldn’t be dodged because, from that angle, the pellets would still reach (due to their spread). But in the end, Peter used his technique to avoid it. (Why didn’t you include that panel?)
• In Chapter 113 (again, if I’m remembering correctly), if you pay close attention, you’ll notice the assassin was sniping from the end of a straight path with no cover available—just a direct line. In that situation, even running wouldn’t make dodging easy (even though Peter is normally capable of dodging bullets).
• As for the Matthew scene, if you read carefully, you’d know she ambushed Peter, which is why he couldn’t dodge everything. But the moment she revealed herself, Peter was able to dodge normally again. (Did you actually read it? lol.)

Therefore, I don’t think these scenes should be used to downgrade the speed, because there are always contextual reasons explaining why something was missed or why it happened that way (if you actually read it).

Even though I don’t want to point fingers, if you’re saying Peter or others can’t dodge bullets and therefore should be reduced to Subsonic/Subsonic+ or Transonic, then by that logic, other series you mentioned—like Lookism or Reality Quest—shouldn’t exceed Subsonic+ or Transonic either, right? Because those characters can still be shot by guns. Yet their profiles list them at Supersonic or Supersonic+ (and they’re even getting upgraded soon).

As for Saint.K.Grass and Crimsonobu (since they’re the same person using different accounts—is that even allowed?), I’ve been observing you for a while. When Lookism’s speed calculations were rejected from going beyond Supersonic, you started consistently trying to lower the speed of other series to be below or equal to Lookism. Before that, you never did this—because Lookism’s speed was higher than the others.

I don’t know whether you genuinely believe it’s incorrect or if it’s just bias, but the timing of when you started arguing coincides exactly with when Lookism had its Supersonic+ rating removed.

to address the last point. yes it seems like that. the only verse i wouldn't have an issue with reaching higher then supersonic is reality quest due to its lack of bullet anti feats. yes i agree i have shown heavy bias before. but even if you really want to call this bias every point iv made still quite evidently stands. both lookism and killer peter treat bullets as threats, its just that simple. (when have i said reality quest shouldn't exceed supersonic, what?)

quite literally all the counter points you brought up are just bad.

explination doesnt save it from context, peter LITERALLY plans around the shotgun by stepping back to have time to turn off the lights, its literally explained to you WHY he does that, the "assumption" is just the author telling you why and how it was done.

again chapter 113 the context doesnt save anything, no cover doesnt change my point, shouldnt be threatened by anything hes hundreads of times faster then. even in a seperate matthias fight its stated 2 times that he gets saved from a shot BECOUSE there is a cover.
iv had this counter argument for this very series for months , im preatty sure we even discussed it on discord if i recall.

"

• But the moment she revealed herself, Peter was able to dodge normally again. (Did you actually read it? lol.)"
  
  are we genuinely reading the same series or the same argument? him being able to dodge has nothing to do with the fact that its still consistently treated as a threat, even with the premonition of him knowing a shot is coming via sensing killing intent makes him barely dodge the sniper shot.
  
  again he got almost tagged by a finger gun, which has FAR less speed then a regular gun further supporting my argument, he shouldn't be getting pressured by ANYTHING mentioned since he's hundreds of times faster.
  
  normal capability to dodge the shots isn't the problem here. its the problem that under multiple context its treated as a threat, when it shouldn't be if he was as fast as the calcs make him want to seem. theres 2 scenes with admissions to bullets being trouble where even contextually they wouldn't be issues if they were again hundred's of times faster.
  
  and all of my other points still stand, apostles fighting other apostles with guns and consistently tagging them. please reread all my arguments carefully.

" But in the end, Peter used his technique to avoid it. (Why didn’t you include that panel?)"

...... you have to be doing this on purpose, my literal point is that he HAS to use a technique because its explained he cant move out the way fast enough normally (please reread the chapter if you are curious)

iv literally read the series multiple times over since it came out from quite literally chapter 2. if you want to accuse me of not reading then you have your criticism wrongfully placed. if you had actually bothered to read you'd know quite literally no context saves anything iv presented in the verses favor outside of maybe the Yukia argument which i think is iffy as well.

"Therefore, I don’t think these scenes should be used to downgrade the speed, because there are always contextual reasons explaining why something was missed or why it happened that way (if you actually read it)."

this again legit doesn't address anything. the shotgun scene has included context being peter cant dodge normally thus has to resort to a trick (explained to you directly)

apostles getting tagged by bullets doesn't have saving context, Johan and Dorothy have a fight going consistently close with her just possessing a revolver, which wouldn't be a close fight if he was hundred's of times faster, i don't know what's so hard for you to grasp here.

him not having cover out in the woods wouldn't be an issue, you know why? because hed be hundred's of times faster then the bullet according to the calcs.

no matter how you slice it, contextually they aren't that fast, SIMPLE AS.

"only in short distances" doesn't track again since peter and Johan both show to have issues with guns even in close range. this isn't rocket science its just basic tracking. if i have bias against (which i genuinely don't, iv agreed multiple times that lookism shouldn't pass mid end supersonic due to the same inconsistencies).

the reason im bringing this up now is due to consistent application across multiple low tier series . that's why its annoying when specific series get treated with less care leading to acceptance of wonky scaling . if you want to give matthias mhs speed, youd be granting a d rank kiler the same reaction speed due to displayed stats, so on so forth.

another example would be viotts newest killer peter calculation (LS) where Nathaniel opens a metal crate being transferred into AP aswell. i asked him why this specific feat was being turned into AP. since if the same case was included reality quest should have had an upscale long before the 8c calculation (referring to dowan opening the door) . its still about consistency weather you consider me biased or not.

if lookism got the same treatment as killer peter it would have multiple calcs accepted at the same inflated level, but it doesn't and that's completely fine. even if it did, it wouldnt make sense narratively which im pointing out here aswell. if kp gets to have infalted calcs, so should other low tiers. if you want to keep consistent inverse scaling, then none of them should besides maybe again RQ due to no real gun antifeats.


YES you can calculate matthiases throwing speed but AGAIN its not about calculation > result > character scales to it.
its about how that calc actually plays into the verse. in this case, as iv been consistently pointing out. it just doesnt

remind me if im wrong. arent you responsible for multiple inflated calcs for this verse?

one of them being up currently thats just blatantly wrong. and was wrong during the time you made it

 

[Black_Cat49]

to address the last point. yes it seems like that. the only verse i wouldn't have an issue with reaching higher then supersonic is reality quest due to its lack of bullet anti feats. yes i agree i have shown heavy bias before. but even if you really want to call this bias every point iv made still quite evidently stands. both lookism and killer peter treat bullets as threats, its just that simple. (when have i said reality quest shouldn't exceed supersonic, what?)

quite literally all the counter points you brought up are just bad.

explination doesnt save it from context, peter LITERALLY plans around the shotgun by stepping back to have time to turn off the lights, its literally explained to you WHY he does that, the "assumption" is just the author telling you why and how it was done.

again chapter 113 the context doesnt save anything, no cover doesnt change my point, shouldnt be threatened by anything hes hundreads of times faster then. even in a seperate matthias fight its stated 2 times that he gets saved from a shot BECOUSE there is a cover.
iv had this counter argument for this very series for months , im preatty sure we even discussed it on discord if i recall.

"

• But the moment she revealed herself, Peter was able to dodge normally again. (Did you actually read it? lol.)"
  
  are we genuinely reading the same series or the same argument? him being able to dodge has nothing to do with the fact that its still consistently treated as a threat, even with the premonition of him knowing a shot is coming via sensing killing intent makes him barely dodge the sniper shot.
  
  again he got almost tagged by a finger gun, which has FAR less speed then a regular gun further supporting my argument, he shouldn't be getting pressured by ANYTHING mentioned since he's hundreds of times faster.
  
  normal capability to dodge the shots isn't the problem here. its the problem that under multiple context its treated as a threat, when it shouldn't be if he was as fast as the calcs make him want to seem. theres 2 scenes with admissions to bullets being trouble where even contextually they wouldn't be issues if they were again hundred's of times faster.
  
  and all of my other points still stand, apostles fighting other apostles with guns and consistently tagging them. please reread all my arguments carefully.

" But in the end, Peter used his technique to avoid it. (Why didn’t you include that panel?)"

...... you have to be doing this on purpose, my literal point is that he HAS to use a technique because its explained he cant move out the way fast enough normally (please reread the chapter if you are curious)

iv literally read the series multiple times over since it came out from quite literally chapter 2. if you want to accuse me of not reading then you have your criticism wrongfully placed. if you had actually bothered to read you'd know quite literally no context saves anything iv presented in the verses favor outside of maybe the Yukia argument which i think is iffy as well.

"Therefore, I don’t think these scenes should be used to downgrade the speed, because there are always contextual reasons explaining why something was missed or why it happened that way (if you actually read it)."

this again legit doesn't address anything. the shotgun scene has included context being peter cant dodge normally thus has to resort to a trick (explained to you directly)

apostles getting tagged by bullets doesn't have saving context, Johan and Dorothy have a fight going consistently close with her just possessing a revolver, which wouldn't be a close fight if he was hundred's of times faster, i don't know what's so hard for you to grasp here.

him not having cover out in the woods wouldn't be an issue, you know why? because hed be hundred's of times faster then the bullet according to the calcs.

no matter how you slice it, contextually they aren't that fast, SIMPLE AS.

"only in short distances" doesn't track again since peter and Johan both show to have issues with guns even in close range. this isn't rocket science its just basic tracking. if i have bias against (which i genuinely don't, iv agreed multiple times that lookism shouldn't pass mid end supersonic due to the same inconsistencies).

the reason im bringing this up now is due to consistent application across multiple low tier series . that's why its annoying when specific series get treated with less care leading to acceptance of wonky scaling . if you want to give matthias mhs speed, youd be granting a d rank kiler the same reaction speed due to displayed stats, so on so forth.

another example would be viotts newest killer peter calculation (LS) where Nathaniel opens a metal crate being transferred into AP aswell. i asked him why this specific feat was being turned into AP. since if the same case was included reality quest should have had an upscale long before the 8c calculation (referring to dowan opening the door) . its still about consistency weather you consider me biased or not.

if lookism got the same treatment as killer peter it would have multiple calcs accepted at the same inflated level, but it doesn't and that's completely fine. even if it did, it wouldnt make sense narratively which im pointing out here aswell. if kp gets to have infalted calcs, so should other low tiers. if you want to keep consistent inverse scaling, then none of them should besides maybe again RQ due to no real gun antifeats.


YES you can calculate matthiases throwing speed but AGAIN its not about calculation > result > character scales to it.
its about how that calc actually plays into the verse. in this case, as iv been consistently pointing out. it just doesnt

remind me if im wrong. arent you responsible for multiple inflated calcs for this verse?

one of them being up currently thats just blatantly wrong. and was wrong during the time you made it

In the shotgun scene, yes—he turned off the lights and used his technique to dodge the bullets. Andrew had already stated that, from that position, it was impossible to dodge because the spread was wide enough that even if the lights were turned off, getting hit would be inevitable. But in the end, the moment Peter turned off the lights and the shot was fired, he used his technique to evade and counterattack. I think that’s sufficient.

In Matthew’s scene, where did I say something wrong? When he entered the theater (I think that’s the scene) and saw her position, Peter consistently dodged Matthew’s bullets. I just rechecked it, and I didn’t see any panel where he was actually shot. He avoided all of them—even if some dodges were very close calls, they still count as successful dodges.

As for Chapter 113, he clearly stated: “The distance is 30 meters, and it’s a narrow corridor with no room to dodge.” That implies he can normally dodge if there’s space to maneuver. Don’t forget—even if your reaction speed is 100 times faster than a bullet, if you’re being fired at by dozens of guns in a straight, narrow path with no cover, it’s not strange that Peter would hesitate instead of charging straight in—at least until Nathanael arrived.

It’s true that Matthias’s graph might look low enough that even Rank D/C/A could scale from it. But don’t forget, it was explicitly stated that Matthias originally couldn’t fight. It was only because of his BCI ability and bomb-creation skills that he reached this level. And in my upgrade, I didn’t adjust tiers based solely on the graph—I also considered overall consistency. I only scaled the Apostles and certain Rank A members, and among Rank A, only Sangdo was adjusted since he was stated to have Apostle-level potential.

Regarding Johan and Matthew—why was Johan shot despite having reactions over 100 times faster? There are explanations:
1. Matthew’s shooting ability is extremely high, and she is praised as the No.1 marksman, so it’s not surprising she could land hits.
2. Plot holes (which are common in many series where abilities sometimes don’t perfectly align with scaling).

In any case, if you review Season 1 through Season 2, you’ll see that Killer Peter has no reason to be below Supersonic. He can normally dodge bullets.

iv had this counter argument for this very series for months , im preatty sure we even discussed it on discord if i recall.

I don’t know which Discord you’re referring to—I don’t even know you personally (I mean on Discord).

another example would be viotts newest killer peter calculation (LS) where Nathaniel opens a metal crate being transferred into AP aswell. i asked him why this specific feat was being turned into AP. since if the same case was included reality quest should have had an upscale long before the 8c calculation (referring to dowan opening the door) . its still about consistency weather you consider me biased or not.

As for Viott’s calculation, I’ll leave that to him. (Though I personally think it should at least qualify for AP, since bending a door is still a measurable feat. As for Dowan’s calculation, whether he revises it or not is up to him.)

if lookism got the same treatment as killer peter it would have multiple calcs accepted at the same inflated level, but it doesn't and that's completely fine. even if it did, it wouldnt make sense narratively which im pointing out here aswell. if kp gets to have infalted calcs, so should other low tiers. if you want to keep consistent inverse scaling, then none of them should besides maybe again RQ due to no real gun antifeats.

Regarding Lookism’s speed, I think high-tier characters can reasonably remain at Supersonic or higher if they scale to the Manager Kim. As for the fact that Lookism characters can’t consistently dodge bullets—again, plot holes exist. So I don’t think it would be incorrect to place Lookism above Supersonic.

 

[SacredDao]

Black cat seems to make sense, just because you are 100 times faster doesn't mean you can Dodge Aoe attacks where you have no room to dodge or attacks that are considered surprised attack. Anyway someone need to call the mods to look at this thread, they have the final say here.

 

[Crimsonobu]

Black cat seems to make sense, just because you are 100 times faster doesn't mean you can Dodge Aoe attacks where you have no room to dodge or attacks that are considered surprised attack. Anyway someone need to call the mods to look at this thread, they have the final say here.

.... thats contradictory. if you are 100 times faster. you can move out the area. the bullet (especially in a closed space) isnt covering a relevant enough area for something 100s of times slower then you to be a threat.
peter wasnt being surprised there. he had to think of something cuz he couldnt outspeed it. simple as.

for example the bullets aoe covers lets say a 5m cone. (not enough space for it to expand more) peter would have to move 5 meters before the bullet moves 2 meters (thats in reference to it coming towards him and not covering the general area).

hed need to be only 2/3 times faster (if the bullet is fired first which it isnt) for him to completely move out of the bullets way. which is framed as him not being able to do so.

if he could react that fast and move that fast he would have 1. demolished the weapond before the trigger was pulled . 2. have legit walked around the bullets casually or 3. atleast shown some form of casual treatment of the shotgun.

there wasnt "no room" there was room, the issue was that the shotgun covered too much distance for peter to dodge away from which again goes to him just blatantly being not fast enough.

 

[Crimsonobu]

In the shotgun scene, yes—he turned off the lights and used his technique to dodge the bullets. Andrew had already stated that, from that position, it was impossible to dodge because the spread was wide enough that even if the lights were turned off, getting hit would be inevitable. But in the end, the moment Peter turned off the lights and the shot was fired, he used his technique to evade and counterattack. I think that’s sufficient.

In Matthew’s scene, where did I say something wrong? When he entered the theater (I think that’s the scene) and saw her position, Peter consistently dodged Matthew’s bullets. I just rechecked it, and I didn’t see any panel where he was actually shot. He avoided all of them—even if some dodges were very close calls, they still count as successful dodges.

As for Chapter 113, he clearly stated: “The distance is 30 meters, and it’s a narrow corridor with no room to dodge.” That implies he can normally dodge if there’s space to maneuver. Don’t forget—even if your reaction speed is 100 times faster than a bullet, if you’re being fired at by dozens of guns in a straight, narrow path with no cover, it’s not strange that Peter would hesitate instead of charging straight in—at least until Nathanael arrived.

It’s true that Matthias’s graph might look low enough that even Rank D/C/A could scale from it. But don’t forget, it was explicitly stated that Matthias originally couldn’t fight. It was only because of his BCI ability and bomb-creation skills that he reached this level. And in my upgrade, I didn’t adjust tiers based solely on the graph—I also considered overall consistency. I only scaled the Apostles and certain Rank A members, and among Rank A, only Sangdo was adjusted since he was stated to have Apostle-level potential.

Regarding Johan and Matthew—why was Johan shot despite having reactions over 100 times faster? There are explanations:
1. Matthew’s shooting ability is extremely high, and she is praised as the No.1 marksman, so it’s not surprising she could land hits.
2. Plot holes (which are common in many series where abilities sometimes don’t perfectly align with scaling).

In any case, if you review Season 1 through Season 2, you’ll see that Killer Peter has no reason to be below Supersonic. He can normally dodge bullets.

I don’t know which Discord you’re referring to—I don’t even know you personally (I mean on Discord).


As for Viott’s calculation, I’ll leave that to him. (Though I personally think it should at least qualify for AP, since bending a door is still a measurable feat. As for Dowan’s calculation, whether he revises it or not is up to him.)

Regarding Lookism’s speed, I think high-tier characters can reasonably remain at Supersonic or higher if they scale to the Manager Kim. As for the fact that Lookism characters can’t consistently dodge bullets—again, plot holes exist. So I don’t think it would be incorrect to place Lookism above Supersonic.

none of this actually adressed anything i said funny enough.
SHOOTING ABILITY DOESNT CHANGE BULLET SPEED.
its a plot hole unless its happened multiple times, at which point it becomes consistent.
reaction speed and combat speed have both been scaled to mhs so its irreleant to just call it reaction. if you can react and move out the way of something hundreads of times faster then a bullet then you should have no issue dealing with hundreads of bullets at once.
if a colony of ants is running at you. they are still slow enough for you to move out of the way casually and effortlessly. you seem to HIGHLY underestimate how much of a difference a 100x + is. and it shows.

most of these antifeats are literally in season 2.
dodging again has nothing to do with this as long as its treated as a threat.
mathias reaction speed would scale to his stats, which other lower tiers have shown to eb comparable to.
the hallway has 6 people shoulder to shoulder. you could fire 1000 bullets and still have space if you are hundreads of times faster.

we could vc this or wait for other oppinions/mods. upto you

my discord was saint aloyasha or I_T0UCHGRASS i dont remember it was a while back during the levin slow mo feat.

 

[Black_Cat49]

none of this actually adressed anything i said funny enough.
SHOOTING ABILITY DOESNT CHANGE BULLET SPEED.
its a plot hole unless its happened multiple times, at which point it becomes consistent.
reaction speed and combat speed have both been scaled to mhs so its irreleant to just call it reaction. if you can react and move out the way of something hundreads of times faster then a bullet then you should have no issue dealing with hundreads of bullets at once.
if a colony of ants is running at you. they are still slow enough for you to move out of the way casually and effortlessly. you seem to HIGHLY underestimate how much of a difference a 100x + is. and it shows.

most of these antifeats are literally in season 2.
dodging again has nothing to do with this as long as its treated as a threat.
mathias reaction speed would scale to his stats, which other lower tiers have shown to eb comparable to.
the hallway has 6 people shoulder to shoulder. you could fire 1000 bullets and still have space if you are hundreads of times faster.

we could vc this or wait for other oppinions/mods. upto you

my discord was saint aloyasha or I_T0UCHGRASS i dont remember it was a while back during the levin slow mo feat.

I stand by my original position that there is no reason he wouldn’t be able to dodge bullets. I’ve already explained my reasoning for the scenes in Chapters 111, 112, and 113.

As for plot holes, as I mentioned before, they are plot holes—and they appear in every series. Therefore, I don’t think those scenes should lower the scaling below Supersonic, and there is no reason for Killer Peter to be downgraded below Supersonic.

my discord was saint aloyasha or I_T0UCHGRASS i dont remember it was a while back during the levin slow mo feat.

I’ve never discussed this with you on Discord.

we could vc this or wait for other oppinions/mods. upto you

I think it would be better to wait for CGM to review and verify it personally.

 

[Crimsonobu]

I stand by my original position that there is no reason he wouldn’t be able to dodge bullets. I’ve already explained my reasoning for the scenes in Chapters 111, 112, and 113.

As for plot holes, as I mentioned before, they are plot holes—and they appear in every series. Therefore, I don’t think those scenes should lower the scaling below Supersonic, and there is no reason for Killer Peter to be downgraded below Supersonic.


I’ve never discussed this with you on Discord.

I think it would be better to wait for CGM to review and verify it personally.

stated he wouldnt or that it would be hard, which again serves my point that they arent massively hyper or even high hyper.

again. its a plot hole unless it keep showing up consistently over and over again. . your reasoning is heavily flawed and it doesnt even go against mine. them being able to dodge in other contexts doesn't contradict my point what so ever.

not trying to downgrade below supersonic. but to supersonic instead, not below.
true. ill wait for a cgm member

 

[Aksh_sky]

I gave better arguements against the Matthias statement in my crt and gave valid inconsistencies aswell.

Downgrading the best MHS verse, Killer Peter

SOMEHOW the Killer Peter verse is MHS in the vsbw profile... Now idk how that happened and likely it's due to the bias supporters controlling the profile of the verse or the extremely lenient evaluation but the fact is that the top calcs of verse either uses statements or slow motion formula...

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