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Hello everyone. This is my first Ultrakill thread.
The current pages of Ultrakill are very far from the lore of Ultrakill. This applies not only to physical characteristics, but also to scaling.
In fact, this also applies to a huge number of other characteristics, but let's go through speed and strength first.
At the moment, we are scaling Minos to 7-C, through a speed greater than a rocket and a height of hundreds of meters. However, we are using fundamentally incorrect methods.
We are trying to find his height through comparison with V1 in bossfight. However, there is a huge amount of Hakita's claim that Ultrakill is purposely inconsistent in maintaining character heights because he doesn't want to bother with accuracy, he makes his job easier. He makes the characters as large as it would be convenient for the player to aim and hit them. The only most accurate proportions that Hakita maintains are conceptual ones, for example that V1 and V2 have the same height, because they are the same robot model of different colors.
Therefore, in Bossfight he is visually smaller than in the background of the levels. However, comparing his height to the city should be used for AP, as the highest feat shown and as the fact that he can fight even in this state.
We can also say that this could be due to the very non-Euclidean and ever-changing law of spatiality in Hell, but this sounds too boring and a bit far-fetched.
Some people may say that since Minos canonically has different heights in different scenes, then we should indicate in his profile "Varies, from Town Level to Multi-Continent Level", and we should scale V1 to the 7-C version of Minos. No.
Firstly, it has never been stated that Minos's ability to change his height is a separate ability on which his physical strength depends. His height changes in bossfight only to make it more convenient for the player to fight him and to make it easier for Hakita.
Secondly, even within levels 2-4 we see that its size changes. For example, his hand, which we fight inside the subway, is much smaller than his hand in the final bossfight. However, his damage and ability to withstand damage from V1 remain the same, indicating that his power level does not change with the change in height.
Thirdly, in fact, the Corpse of Minos is just a shell. It's not a zombie, it's just a Corpse. It is controlled by two parasites that have inhabited it. The corpse contains only small traces of his soul, but the soul itself is imprisoned in the Prison of Flesh, on another layer of Hell (Gluttony). It's no longer Minos (Technically, this would force a separate profile for it, but it's best not to do that). All power comes from them. This means that these parasites scale to all of Corpse's feats. In the world of Ultrakill, the strength, appearance (human-like) and intelligence of Husks (manifest souls of sinners) depend on their willpower and respect in the world of the living. The size of the Husks also depends on these parameters, and Minos, being the Judge of Hell (Before second death by Gabriel), was the largest recorded Husk due to the same two parameters (Yes, before becoming a corpse, Minos was human-like and just as huge. He looked like this). The Angels are stronger than Minos the Judge of Hell, because the Angels are stronger than Husks, in turn, Gabriel is one of the strongest angels, and he killed Minos Pre-Prime, tearing his flesh into pieces (below is an excerpt from the book).
V1 defeated Gabriel several times.
V1 > Gabriel >>>> Average Angels >> Minos, Judge of Hell >>>> Parasites = The Corpse of King Minos.
In any case, the main cast will scale from this. This calculation will also upgrade Lifting and Corpse Speed to Class P and Massive Hypersonic (914.2 Mach).
Counter argument:
— No, we can. It only seems so undetailed and pixelated if you fly closer, which is impossible without cheats. Everything looks natural and natural. Not being willing to accept this just because the city is not three-dimensional, in a game made by an indie developer, is STRANGE. Hakita is trying to show how huge Minos is compared to the city below, it's obvious, but he can't create that much background detail in an FPS game.
We need to start with small. First, we need to limit the scaling of ALL to V1. The fact that many of his enemies are regarded as bosses does not always mean that they are comparable to the main character (Such examples would be Ultrakill's fathers, who he always looks up to, like Devil May Cry and DOOM). However, some have responded to this with the argument that V1 is described as a more fragile machine than many others. I understand that this is his main idea, for the player to constantly be agile and try to regenerate, but it simply doesn't fit with the events of the game.
As an example, Maurice, Swordmachine, Ferryman, Cerberus and Sisyphean Insurrectionist were initially regarded as boss enemies, but later each of them became enemies without HP bar of normal bosses, becoming simply stronger normal enemies.
Swordmachine is weaker than Sisyphean Insurrectionist, and Sisyphean Insurrectionist is much weaker than Minos (Judge of Hell), because the stronger Husk, the larger his size, and Minos is COLOSSUSLY larger than Sisyphean Insurrectionist. Angels (Born in Heavens, not Virtues) are stronger than Minos. Gabriel is one of the most powerful and respected angels; in fact, he killed Minos, taking his place. Minos Prime, according to Hakita, would not give Gabriel a chance, and Gabriel would never be able to defeat him in a 1 on 1 fight. Gabriel's only chance of defeating Minos was to take an army of angels with him, and even so it would be impossible hard victory. Sisyphus Prime was able to one-shot Panocticon with his physical strength, which is stronger than the Prison of Flesh, which could contain the soul of Minos and which could protect him from all the Husks in Hell (Including his Corpse), and Sisyphus is much larger than Minos, as a result of which, according to the rules Ultrakill, his soul manifest is much stronger (The power of Prime Souls depends only on willpower, unlike Husks, respect during life does not play a role here). V1 killed Sisyphus by physically overpowering his blows in battle.
V1 > Sisyphus Prime >> Panocticon > Prison of Flesh <= Minos Prime >>>> Gabriel >>>> regular Angel > Judge Minos >> Corpse of Minos >>>>>>>>>>>> Sisyphean Insurrectionist > Swordmachine.
But according to your scaling methods, they all = V1. It is not right. Moreover, throughout the entire game the player fought several Sisyphean Insurrectionists simultaneously without problems, and Cybergrind (a simulation existing in the game’s Lore) implies that at one moment the Terminal can set four Ferrymen on us at the same time.
Let's change this and create a new hierarchy of power. I won't write too much about what low rank characters should scale to, I'll try to do it quickly.
This league would probably include Sisyphean Insurrectionist because it has no way to scale to Minos Corpse. We don't have a profile on it, but judging by the picture on verse page, it was planned.
This includes everyone who scales up to the parasites that control the Corpse of Minos. Among existing profiles, this would include Ferryman. Ferrymen are a special species of Husks who are responsible for moving sinners between the layers of Hell and along the River Styx. They are responsible for this because of their loyalty, and they look just like humans (but they tore off all the flesh and blood from themselves, so they now look like blue skeletons) and have full human intelligence, and they also wear clothes, which Gabriel gave them for their endless devotion to God. These clothes give them special powers, similar to angels, and the only reason why Ferrymen do not become angels is their sins in a past life. That's why they are so strong, despite their small size.
The factor of their features, human appearance, high intelligence and a bit of angelic power due to Gabriel's blessing should scale them above the Parasites inside the Corpse, like a more developed and powerful Husk who was even assigned a job.
This will also include Judge Minos, as the strongest Husk. His key is not in the profile, but it should be added later.
This would give them AP >39.78 petatons, High 6-A.
This should also include regular angels, due to the fact that Hakita says that Minos the Judge would have been destroyed by the Angels, because the Angels are stronger than the Husks. Virtues should not come here, due to the fact that Angels not born in Heaven are not full-fledged and are clearly weaker than them.
This will also include Angels and Judge Minos, as the most powerful Hask. His key is not in the profile, but it should be added later.
This will include the strongest characters that scale much higher than other characters.
1) Gabriel is one of the most powerful Angels in Ultrakill. He is an Archangel who is much stronger than ordinary angels, and for his strength he deserved to be the new Judge of Hell, he even led a rebellion in Heaven, killing the entire Council of Angels. He killed Judge Minos by tearing him apart. He is the reason why no one in Hell rebels anymore because he can easily defeat any armies in Hell.
In addition, he was able to survive two fights with V1 at once, although he lost both fights. He held back in the first half of the first fight against V1, and in the second half of the fight he stopped, causing his stats to increase. After losing to V1, his worldview was completely destroyed because he didn't meet anyone who could not only defeat him, but even make him tense up, which suggests that his holding back behavior was usually enough to kill all previous enemies .
In the second fight, he was much stronger due to his anger, causing his stats to increase. During the second half of the fight, Gabriel reached peace and relief, causing him to change his fighting style again, increasing his speed and damage once again.
2) Prison of Flesh and Panocticon.
They were created by Angels to restrain the Prime Soul from transformation, due to which they both could restrain the soul of Minos and Sisyphus for thousands of years. The Angels were terribly afraid of the power of the Prime Souls, as a result of which they created these creatures to contain them, which clearly scales them much higher than the Angels and makes them probably not much weaker than Minos Prime (Who admittedly did not fully form as a Prime Soul).
Panocticon is stronger than the Prison of Flesh.
3) Minos Prime, according to Hakita, is much stronger than Gabriel and would defeat him in a 1 on 1 battle, leaving him no chance. He was truly a threat to Heaven and could destroy Heavenly Cities. The only way to defeat him would be to pit Gabriel and an army of angels against him, and even so, winning would be extremely difficult. He was going to destroy the heavenly cities.
In the world of Ultrakill, after death your soul becomes a Husk in Hell. You already know their rules of power. However, if they die in the same way as Husk, and their willpower is incredibly high, they can be reborn as a Soul Prime. These are such powerful beings that they no longer need physical bodies to exist. This would mean that Minos Prime has, at worst, all the power of Judge Minos (All Joules), but crammed into a much smaller form, only maybe 2 meters tall. This would make him COLOSSAL more stronger than his Husk form, because the energy distributed per square centimeter of fist would be morbillion of times higher. However, we cannot multiply the force so many times due to rule. Therefore, his profile will simply say "At least Multi-Continent level, likely far higher."
4) Sisyphus Prime is bigger than Minos Prime and began to transform very quickly immediately into Prime Soul, which scared the Angels. This is due to his incredible willpower. After V1 has taken down 10-20% of Panocticum's HP bar, Sisyphus destroys it with a one-shot, tearing it apart, although Panocticon is stronger than the Prison of Flesh, which is capable of containing Minos Prime.
In addition, all this time Sisyphus was formed inside the Panocticum for a thousand years, such development managed to make him much stronger than the newborn Minos.
This would make Sisyphus much stronger than Minos.
Obviously, V1 will be the strongest because he defeated them all. Also, a convenient additional proof of V1's superiority: Hakita said that hitting V1 for Corpse is like trying to hit a nail on a person with your fist. This proves the huge difference in strength between them (And again debunks claims that he is fragile).
V2 will scale up to V1 in everything, and surpass him in durability (Hakita also confirms this). The only reason V2 lost was his possibly slightly lower skills and inability to regenerate like V1.
___________________________________________
Agree: Swordsaint456, Brahmatman, Deymoc13, PavilVers, SYPHe5D, Shmooply (Only for New Scalings High and God Tier, and possibly Low Tier and Mid Tier)
Disagree:
Neutral:
The current pages of Ultrakill are very far from the lore of Ultrakill. This applies not only to physical characteristics, but also to scaling.
In fact, this also applies to a huge number of other characteristics, but let's go through speed and strength first.
Upgrade AP, Lifting and Speed of The Corpse of King Minos.
This calculation. Upgrade Corpse to 39.78 petatons (His AP = his Dur).At the moment, we are scaling Minos to 7-C, through a speed greater than a rocket and a height of hundreds of meters. However, we are using fundamentally incorrect methods.
We are trying to find his height through comparison with V1 in bossfight. However, there is a huge amount of Hakita's claim that Ultrakill is purposely inconsistent in maintaining character heights because he doesn't want to bother with accuracy, he makes his job easier. He makes the characters as large as it would be convenient for the player to aim and hit them. The only most accurate proportions that Hakita maintains are conceptual ones, for example that V1 and V2 have the same height, because they are the same robot model of different colors.
Therefore, in Bossfight he is visually smaller than in the background of the levels. However, comparing his height to the city should be used for AP, as the highest feat shown and as the fact that he can fight even in this state.
We can also say that this could be due to the very non-Euclidean and ever-changing law of spatiality in Hell, but this sounds too boring and a bit far-fetched.
Some people may say that since Minos canonically has different heights in different scenes, then we should indicate in his profile "Varies, from Town Level to Multi-Continent Level", and we should scale V1 to the 7-C version of Minos. No.
Firstly, it has never been stated that Minos's ability to change his height is a separate ability on which his physical strength depends. His height changes in bossfight only to make it more convenient for the player to fight him and to make it easier for Hakita.
Secondly, even within levels 2-4 we see that its size changes. For example, his hand, which we fight inside the subway, is much smaller than his hand in the final bossfight. However, his damage and ability to withstand damage from V1 remain the same, indicating that his power level does not change with the change in height.
Thirdly, in fact, the Corpse of Minos is just a shell. It's not a zombie, it's just a Corpse. It is controlled by two parasites that have inhabited it. The corpse contains only small traces of his soul, but the soul itself is imprisoned in the Prison of Flesh, on another layer of Hell (Gluttony). It's no longer Minos (Technically, this would force a separate profile for it, but it's best not to do that). All power comes from them. This means that these parasites scale to all of Corpse's feats. In the world of Ultrakill, the strength, appearance (human-like) and intelligence of Husks (manifest souls of sinners) depend on their willpower and respect in the world of the living. The size of the Husks also depends on these parameters, and Minos, being the Judge of Hell (Before second death by Gabriel), was the largest recorded Husk due to the same two parameters (Yes, before becoming a corpse, Minos was human-like and just as huge. He looked like this). The Angels are stronger than Minos the Judge of Hell, because the Angels are stronger than Husks, in turn, Gabriel is one of the strongest angels, and he killed Minos Pre-Prime, tearing his flesh into pieces (below is an excerpt from the book).
V1 defeated Gabriel several times.
V1 > Gabriel >>>> Average Angels >> Minos, Judge of Hell >>>> Parasites = The Corpse of King Minos.
In any case, the main cast will scale from this. This calculation will also upgrade Lifting and Corpse Speed to Class P and Massive Hypersonic (914.2 Mach).
Counter argument:
— No, we can. It only seems so undetailed and pixelated if you fly closer, which is impossible without cheats. Everything looks natural and natural. Not being willing to accept this just because the city is not three-dimensional, in a game made by an indie developer, is STRANGE. Hakita is trying to show how huge Minos is compared to the city below, it's obvious, but he can't create that much background detail in an FPS game.
Changing power scalings and hierarchies in Ultrakill
Ultrakill scaling is just terrible right now. You scale everyone to each other, even to characters of completely different scales, which is why even Ferryman can give a fight to Minos Prime, and Gabriel even defeated Minos Prime in some thread.We need to start with small. First, we need to limit the scaling of ALL to V1. The fact that many of his enemies are regarded as bosses does not always mean that they are comparable to the main character (Such examples would be Ultrakill's fathers, who he always looks up to, like Devil May Cry and DOOM). However, some have responded to this with the argument that V1 is described as a more fragile machine than many others. I understand that this is his main idea, for the player to constantly be agile and try to regenerate, but it simply doesn't fit with the events of the game.
As an example, Maurice, Swordmachine, Ferryman, Cerberus and Sisyphean Insurrectionist were initially regarded as boss enemies, but later each of them became enemies without HP bar of normal bosses, becoming simply stronger normal enemies.
Swordmachine is weaker than Sisyphean Insurrectionist, and Sisyphean Insurrectionist is much weaker than Minos (Judge of Hell), because the stronger Husk, the larger his size, and Minos is COLOSSUSLY larger than Sisyphean Insurrectionist. Angels (Born in Heavens, not Virtues) are stronger than Minos. Gabriel is one of the most powerful and respected angels; in fact, he killed Minos, taking his place. Minos Prime, according to Hakita, would not give Gabriel a chance, and Gabriel would never be able to defeat him in a 1 on 1 fight. Gabriel's only chance of defeating Minos was to take an army of angels with him, and even so it would be impossible hard victory. Sisyphus Prime was able to one-shot Panocticon with his physical strength, which is stronger than the Prison of Flesh, which could contain the soul of Minos and which could protect him from all the Husks in Hell (Including his Corpse), and Sisyphus is much larger than Minos, as a result of which, according to the rules Ultrakill, his soul manifest is much stronger (The power of Prime Souls depends only on willpower, unlike Husks, respect during life does not play a role here). V1 killed Sisyphus by physically overpowering his blows in battle.
V1 > Sisyphus Prime >> Panocticon > Prison of Flesh <= Minos Prime >>>> Gabriel >>>> regular Angel > Judge Minos >> Corpse of Minos >>>>>>>>>>>> Sisyphean Insurrectionist > Swordmachine.
But according to your scaling methods, they all = V1. It is not right. Moreover, throughout the entire game the player fought several Sisyphean Insurrectionists simultaneously without problems, and Cybergrind (a simulation existing in the game’s Lore) implies that at one moment the Terminal can set four Ferrymen on us at the same time.
Let's change this and create a new hierarchy of power. I won't write too much about what low rank characters should scale to, I'll try to do it quickly.
Low Tier:
This will include the weakest Husks in the game and the like. There are no profiles on them, so I won't do anything except to say that I just have an idea to scale them up to the point where they can withstand non-lethal shockwaves in the game. They are not lethal to them, however they are capable of throwing their bodies tens of meters into the sky, which could give them very high durability, probably at level 9-A. It's a bit useless, so I won't calculate it.Mid-Tier:
This will include more powerful characters such as Swordmachine, Virtue, Cerberus and so on. Firstly, they are capable of single-handedly destroying entire levels of Low-Tier Husks (The entire level of Limbo was destroyed by Streetcleaners single-handedly). Machines, in principle, as a class are much stronger than all the non-Supreme Huskies in the game, which is why the mass extinction of Hell began, while other opponents of this league are simply comparable to them in strength. Secondly, they will scale to tank more powerful explosions, as well as being capable of destroying large columns. The result will likely be around 8-C or High 8-C.This league would probably include Sisyphean Insurrectionist because it has no way to scale to Minos Corpse. We don't have a profile on it, but judging by the picture on verse page, it was planned.
High Tires:
This includes everyone who scales up to the parasites that control the Corpse of Minos. Among existing profiles, this would include Ferryman. Ferrymen are a special species of Husks who are responsible for moving sinners between the layers of Hell and along the River Styx. They are responsible for this because of their loyalty, and they look just like humans (but they tore off all the flesh and blood from themselves, so they now look like blue skeletons) and have full human intelligence, and they also wear clothes, which Gabriel gave them for their endless devotion to God. These clothes give them special powers, similar to angels, and the only reason why Ferrymen do not become angels is their sins in a past life. That's why they are so strong, despite their small size.
The factor of their features, human appearance, high intelligence and a bit of angelic power due to Gabriel's blessing should scale them above the Parasites inside the Corpse, like a more developed and powerful Husk who was even assigned a job.
This will also include Judge Minos, as the strongest Husk. His key is not in the profile, but it should be added later.
This would give them AP >39.78 petatons, High 6-A.
This should also include regular angels, due to the fact that Hakita says that Minos the Judge would have been destroyed by the Angels, because the Angels are stronger than the Husks. Virtues should not come here, due to the fact that Angels not born in Heaven are not full-fledged and are clearly weaker than them.
This will also include Angels and Judge Minos, as the most powerful Hask. His key is not in the profile, but it should be added later.
God-Tiers:
This will include the strongest characters that scale much higher than other characters.
1) Gabriel is one of the most powerful Angels in Ultrakill. He is an Archangel who is much stronger than ordinary angels, and for his strength he deserved to be the new Judge of Hell, he even led a rebellion in Heaven, killing the entire Council of Angels. He killed Judge Minos by tearing him apart. He is the reason why no one in Hell rebels anymore because he can easily defeat any armies in Hell.
In addition, he was able to survive two fights with V1 at once, although he lost both fights. He held back in the first half of the first fight against V1, and in the second half of the fight he stopped, causing his stats to increase. After losing to V1, his worldview was completely destroyed because he didn't meet anyone who could not only defeat him, but even make him tense up, which suggests that his holding back behavior was usually enough to kill all previous enemies .
In the second fight, he was much stronger due to his anger, causing his stats to increase. During the second half of the fight, Gabriel reached peace and relief, causing him to change his fighting style again, increasing his speed and damage once again.
2) Prison of Flesh and Panocticon.
They were created by Angels to restrain the Prime Soul from transformation, due to which they both could restrain the soul of Minos and Sisyphus for thousands of years. The Angels were terribly afraid of the power of the Prime Souls, as a result of which they created these creatures to contain them, which clearly scales them much higher than the Angels and makes them probably not much weaker than Minos Prime (Who admittedly did not fully form as a Prime Soul).
Panocticon is stronger than the Prison of Flesh.
3) Minos Prime, according to Hakita, is much stronger than Gabriel and would defeat him in a 1 on 1 battle, leaving him no chance. He was truly a threat to Heaven and could destroy Heavenly Cities. The only way to defeat him would be to pit Gabriel and an army of angels against him, and even so, winning would be extremely difficult. He was going to destroy the heavenly cities.
In the world of Ultrakill, after death your soul becomes a Husk in Hell. You already know their rules of power. However, if they die in the same way as Husk, and their willpower is incredibly high, they can be reborn as a Soul Prime. These are such powerful beings that they no longer need physical bodies to exist. This would mean that Minos Prime has, at worst, all the power of Judge Minos (All Joules), but crammed into a much smaller form, only maybe 2 meters tall. This would make him COLOSSAL more stronger than his Husk form, because the energy distributed per square centimeter of fist would be morbillion of times higher. However, we cannot multiply the force so many times due to rule. Therefore, his profile will simply say "At least Multi-Continent level, likely far higher."
4) Sisyphus Prime is bigger than Minos Prime and began to transform very quickly immediately into Prime Soul, which scared the Angels. This is due to his incredible willpower. After V1 has taken down 10-20% of Panocticum's HP bar, Sisyphus destroys it with a one-shot, tearing it apart, although Panocticon is stronger than the Prison of Flesh, which is capable of containing Minos Prime.
In addition, all this time Sisyphus was formed inside the Panocticum for a thousand years, such development managed to make him much stronger than the newborn Minos.
This would make Sisyphus much stronger than Minos.
Obviously, V1 will be the strongest because he defeated them all. Also, a convenient additional proof of V1's superiority: Hakita said that hitting V1 for Corpse is like trying to hit a nail on a person with your fist. This proves the huge difference in strength between them (And again debunks claims that he is fragile).
V2 will scale up to V1 in everything, and surpass him in durability (Hakita also confirms this). The only reason V2 lost was his possibly slightly lower skills and inability to regenerate like V1.
___________________________________________
Agree: Swordsaint456, Brahmatman, Deymoc13, PavilVers, SYPHe5D, Shmooply (Only for New Scalings High and God Tier, and possibly Low Tier and Mid Tier)
Disagree:
Neutral:
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