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Hi, this is a new thread for Cody. In the wiki it is stated that Cody was one of the stronges street fighters (even stating "well above than base akuma) for a numer of reasons heavily fallacious.
First, fallacious reasoning:
- Cody's disinterest in life cannot be taken as a power counter. You cannot tell if he is stronger or weaker than someone by his attitude toward the opponent. Less if it's based on win quotes which are mostly bravado and/or misranslations.
- Until SFV Cody Story mode and new cinematic story mode comes out, there's no such thing as "unrestricted cody" or "full power" Cody. There's just 2 CANON YEARS between 'happy' FF1 Cody and Zero 3 Cody. If taking life seriously were such a huge improvement (as to put Cody in 6-C) we would have seen it in Final Fight. In any case, which really powers up Cody is rage.
- Cody is a natural, but hinted talent doesn't mean actual raw power. You cannot speculate with potential. If SSJ2 Gohan had never been shown, you couldn't put SSJ2 level in his wiki even if the series hinted his hidden power.
- Handicapped doesn't mean "god-like when not handicapped" at least that is directly intended. Cody is always being scale from Oro, saying that if Oro is god-like with both arms, than unrestricted Cody will be too. The thing with Oro is that creators HAS SAID that he is god-like with both arms. Capcom never mention nothing about Cody, unless that he has potential for more than what he is. But again, that could be a little (Rashid) or a lot (Oro).
Now, for the actual facts:
- Truth is, there's no really a way to know who's stronger between Guy and Cody. There's a lot of sources and near no info. In the non-canon (very influential nevertheless) manga Guy has impressive feats, but no canon. A lot of win quotes and in game dialogue can be take as Cody having the upper hand, but again, no canon and very speculative. SFXT has Jack putting them both at 3-A level by raw power. Non canon again. The canon guide tier list (not a official list) has Guy one tier above Cody and give in game hints ("Cody vs Guy - Happens and probably ends with no clear winner as Cody backs
away refusing to partner with Guy against S.I.N.-sha. Guy more likely had
the upper hand during this battle since he notes that Cody's gotten so sloppy
he's forgotten Guy's movements."). Probably Cody at full strength is equal to Guy in that list, but again it's all speculation. There's another side of the coin: " In the Arcade Mode off Street Fighter Alpha 3, after defeating Guy, Cody concludes that "some things never change", most likely referencing one (or more) of his and Guy's past duels in which, judging by this quote, he held the upper hand. Their dialogue in Super Street Fighter IV further supports this; Cody says "This feels familiar, don't it?" when he wins a round against Guy."
- There's pretty coherent material about Cody getting stronger through rage:
"Final Fight One: Abigail was the main guard for Mad Gear in the Bay Area
during Final Fight One (gameplay wise, he was the boss of that stage).
Cody ran into him as Cody was going through the bay in order to get to the
Uptown Area where Belger and Jessica were. Abigail confronted him, the
made a crack about how Jessica was probably 'having a good time' with
Belger. Abigail is a guy who relies on his anger to power him up, but his
anger was nothing compared to the anger Cody had after hearing Abigail say
that, so Cody whupped him [From Cody's and SFZ3 Cody's dialogue in Final
Fight One]."
"Actually, after
getting Juni's official power ratings that she scans in SFZ3, Tiamat and I are
for Sodom, Rolento, Guy, and Cody being probably higher than this. Of note is
that Juni can't get an accurate power measurement of either, as Guy's
bushinryu is too mysterious and Cody's power is dependent on his emotions"
Is up to you to believe which one wins, but basing on facts, Cody should be scale from Ryu AT BEST. It is likely, since Ryu fought Hugo and Cody and Guy fought Hugo lots of time (Guy in FF3 actually) in the past. There's no fact supporting that he's stronger than base Akuma. By the way, there's no really such thing as base Akuma since he's power does vary greatly from Zero to III. It should be noted the time, not the form.
Also, Guy and Haggar are scaled from Cody, who was scaled by Oni and currently scaled by Guy (!). There's a pretty horrid loop here. Check it for yourselves.
Misc:
- Via FFOne, developers showed who beated who. Also, there's official statements. Cody beated Abigail, Damnd and Edi E. Guy beated Sodom and Rolento.
- Guy went to a training during FF2 to became master of bushinryuu ninjutsu and defeat Zeku. When Guy went to America in FF1, Zeku was dissapointed, but by FF2, Guy beated Zeku.
-There's a comment i'd like to show, regardling all this "cody is bored with fights cause is a god" meme:
"Cody's level of strength is difficult to calculate because he has no known feats outside of Final Fight. Capcom was smart enough to make everything speculation with him by not having him fight anyone of any importance in any of his story or make anyone fight him.(...)
For all we know, Guy could feel sorry for him and doesn't completely destroy him in a fight and those quotes could be taunts from Cody to his opponent assuming he wins (As almost every character has win quotes about how great they are; even Dan. In fact, Sean's win quote against Oro is, "You're great old man. You've shown me how to defeat a worthless opponent." We all know Sean wouldn't even make Oro's radar).
So all of Cody is non-canon speculation. Could he be as strong as Akuma? Maybe. Or, perhaps the only fighters he has encountered since escaping jail were useless thugs and perhaps that's why he's so bored all the time."
It should be quitted:
- Cody as 6-C tier.
- "Well above Akuma in power"
- "Stronger than base Akuma"
- References to "suppressed Cody" in Guy wiki.
- Keys should be "Final Fight" and "Zero/IV".
- Scale Cody and Guy from Ryu.
It should be added:
- Destroyed a 50 cm wall.
- Notable Victories: Abigail, Damnd, Edi E.
- In the intelligence section of Guy wiki: 57th Master of Bushuinryuu ninpo and 39th Master of Bushinryuu Ninjutsu (it's two separate disciplines, one from Zeku, the other from Genryusai).
- Guy's notable victories: Sodom, Zeku, Rolento.
- Guy keys: pre FF2, post FF2
Now, for the juicy part... there's one win quote above others that was used to speculate with Cody A HECK OF A TON. Of course i'm talking about Oni pre-battle dialogue. "As long as you hold back, your destruction is assured."
Now this is quoted EVERYWHERE saying it means that if Cody get serious he could put a fight with Oni, but is too ambiguous and knowing Capcom USA this were just a mistranslation. So i research the original japanese phrase and translated on Reddit.
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According to google translate, is something like "If you do not show the true power, just let it be destroyed"
"Literally it means "If you do not show your true power, you will unquestionably be quickly destroyed", and seems to be mainly emphasizing the fact that he needs to put up a fight or he'll quickly be dispatched."
So, nothing about surpressed Cody, nor if he show his true power he could take on Oni. Just a threat about fighting serious. I hope this ends years of speculation.
Also, i want to point that Cody IS pretty strong, just not as the heavy hitters, and i'm waiting his new story mode to know more at last! The only thing that bugs me is all the tendentious speculation. Cheers!
First, fallacious reasoning:
- Cody's disinterest in life cannot be taken as a power counter. You cannot tell if he is stronger or weaker than someone by his attitude toward the opponent. Less if it's based on win quotes which are mostly bravado and/or misranslations.
- Until SFV Cody Story mode and new cinematic story mode comes out, there's no such thing as "unrestricted cody" or "full power" Cody. There's just 2 CANON YEARS between 'happy' FF1 Cody and Zero 3 Cody. If taking life seriously were such a huge improvement (as to put Cody in 6-C) we would have seen it in Final Fight. In any case, which really powers up Cody is rage.
- Cody is a natural, but hinted talent doesn't mean actual raw power. You cannot speculate with potential. If SSJ2 Gohan had never been shown, you couldn't put SSJ2 level in his wiki even if the series hinted his hidden power.
- Handicapped doesn't mean "god-like when not handicapped" at least that is directly intended. Cody is always being scale from Oro, saying that if Oro is god-like with both arms, than unrestricted Cody will be too. The thing with Oro is that creators HAS SAID that he is god-like with both arms. Capcom never mention nothing about Cody, unless that he has potential for more than what he is. But again, that could be a little (Rashid) or a lot (Oro).
Now, for the actual facts:
- Truth is, there's no really a way to know who's stronger between Guy and Cody. There's a lot of sources and near no info. In the non-canon (very influential nevertheless) manga Guy has impressive feats, but no canon. A lot of win quotes and in game dialogue can be take as Cody having the upper hand, but again, no canon and very speculative. SFXT has Jack putting them both at 3-A level by raw power. Non canon again. The canon guide tier list (not a official list) has Guy one tier above Cody and give in game hints ("Cody vs Guy - Happens and probably ends with no clear winner as Cody backs
away refusing to partner with Guy against S.I.N.-sha. Guy more likely had
the upper hand during this battle since he notes that Cody's gotten so sloppy
he's forgotten Guy's movements."). Probably Cody at full strength is equal to Guy in that list, but again it's all speculation. There's another side of the coin: " In the Arcade Mode off Street Fighter Alpha 3, after defeating Guy, Cody concludes that "some things never change", most likely referencing one (or more) of his and Guy's past duels in which, judging by this quote, he held the upper hand. Their dialogue in Super Street Fighter IV further supports this; Cody says "This feels familiar, don't it?" when he wins a round against Guy."
- There's pretty coherent material about Cody getting stronger through rage:
"Final Fight One: Abigail was the main guard for Mad Gear in the Bay Area
during Final Fight One (gameplay wise, he was the boss of that stage).
Cody ran into him as Cody was going through the bay in order to get to the
Uptown Area where Belger and Jessica were. Abigail confronted him, the
made a crack about how Jessica was probably 'having a good time' with
Belger. Abigail is a guy who relies on his anger to power him up, but his
anger was nothing compared to the anger Cody had after hearing Abigail say
that, so Cody whupped him [From Cody's and SFZ3 Cody's dialogue in Final
Fight One]."
"Actually, after
getting Juni's official power ratings that she scans in SFZ3, Tiamat and I are
for Sodom, Rolento, Guy, and Cody being probably higher than this. Of note is
that Juni can't get an accurate power measurement of either, as Guy's
bushinryu is too mysterious and Cody's power is dependent on his emotions"
Is up to you to believe which one wins, but basing on facts, Cody should be scale from Ryu AT BEST. It is likely, since Ryu fought Hugo and Cody and Guy fought Hugo lots of time (Guy in FF3 actually) in the past. There's no fact supporting that he's stronger than base Akuma. By the way, there's no really such thing as base Akuma since he's power does vary greatly from Zero to III. It should be noted the time, not the form.
Also, Guy and Haggar are scaled from Cody, who was scaled by Oni and currently scaled by Guy (!). There's a pretty horrid loop here. Check it for yourselves.
Misc:
- Via FFOne, developers showed who beated who. Also, there's official statements. Cody beated Abigail, Damnd and Edi E. Guy beated Sodom and Rolento.
- Guy went to a training during FF2 to became master of bushinryuu ninjutsu and defeat Zeku. When Guy went to America in FF1, Zeku was dissapointed, but by FF2, Guy beated Zeku.
-There's a comment i'd like to show, regardling all this "cody is bored with fights cause is a god" meme:
"Cody's level of strength is difficult to calculate because he has no known feats outside of Final Fight. Capcom was smart enough to make everything speculation with him by not having him fight anyone of any importance in any of his story or make anyone fight him.(...)
For all we know, Guy could feel sorry for him and doesn't completely destroy him in a fight and those quotes could be taunts from Cody to his opponent assuming he wins (As almost every character has win quotes about how great they are; even Dan. In fact, Sean's win quote against Oro is, "You're great old man. You've shown me how to defeat a worthless opponent." We all know Sean wouldn't even make Oro's radar).
So all of Cody is non-canon speculation. Could he be as strong as Akuma? Maybe. Or, perhaps the only fighters he has encountered since escaping jail were useless thugs and perhaps that's why he's so bored all the time."
It should be quitted:
- Cody as 6-C tier.
- "Well above Akuma in power"
- "Stronger than base Akuma"
- References to "suppressed Cody" in Guy wiki.
- Keys should be "Final Fight" and "Zero/IV".
- Scale Cody and Guy from Ryu.
It should be added:
- Destroyed a 50 cm wall.
- Notable Victories: Abigail, Damnd, Edi E.
- In the intelligence section of Guy wiki: 57th Master of Bushuinryuu ninpo and 39th Master of Bushinryuu Ninjutsu (it's two separate disciplines, one from Zeku, the other from Genryusai).
- Guy's notable victories: Sodom, Zeku, Rolento.
- Guy keys: pre FF2, post FF2
Now, for the juicy part... there's one win quote above others that was used to speculate with Cody A HECK OF A TON. Of course i'm talking about Oni pre-battle dialogue. "As long as you hold back, your destruction is assured."
Now this is quoted EVERYWHERE saying it means that if Cody get serious he could put a fight with Oni, but is too ambiguous and knowing Capcom USA this were just a mistranslation. So i research the original japanese phrase and translated on Reddit.
þ£ƒÒü«ÕèøÞªïÒüøÒü¼Òü¬ÒéëÒü░ÒÇüÒüƒÒüáµ╗àÒüÖÒü╣Òüù
According to google translate, is something like "If you do not show the true power, just let it be destroyed"
"Literally it means "If you do not show your true power, you will unquestionably be quickly destroyed", and seems to be mainly emphasizing the fact that he needs to put up a fight or he'll quickly be dispatched."
So, nothing about surpressed Cody, nor if he show his true power he could take on Oni. Just a threat about fighting serious. I hope this ends years of speculation.
Also, i want to point that Cody IS pretty strong, just not as the heavy hitters, and i'm waiting his new story mode to know more at last! The only thing that bugs me is all the tendentious speculation. Cheers!
